How To Be Un-Saved

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
7,801
331
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"who walk not after the flesh". Don't miss that part. People usually skip right over that part as if it's not even there.

You have to keep believing to stay in Christ. The person who has stopped trusting in Christ lives in the flesh. That person will not be saved when Jesus comes back.
You have to?

John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for
without me ye can do nothing
.


Who is it that grows this fruit, again? You?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Just in case you missed this one key verse...;
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


Will the person who wonders "What if", the double minded man, be the one that makes it in? Did you believe hard enough? Did you believe long enough? At this one particular moment, are you as saved as you were when you first believed? If YOU have to do it, did YOU get it done?

Or will it be the one who has 100% faith and confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ the one that makes it in? Not in our own sufficiency but in His. Not that we believed enough but that the Lord Jesus Christ is Powerful to Save.

 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
8,388
196
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oooo I know!
you can go back in a time machine to become your old self oh wait that self wouldn't be "actually" you, blast even modern stuff can't make an old creation that becomes new an old creation again,now didn't Jesus say something on this...
not placing the old with the new or the new with the old like garments that it can tear a garment worse,any of this ringing a bell?
You obviously do not understand how time and eternity interact.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
8,388
196
63
No wonder atheists think we're loons,stuff like this^^^^^^^^ is definitely why unbelievers are convinced of such.
Actually I think it's statements like this one that have the disbelievers laughing
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Hi all...How to be UN-SAVED...Never accept the LORD Jesus Christ as your Savior...xox...
 
Mar 10, 2013
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[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.7)]This is from a web page in this topic. I will put a link to the pate at the end of this post.

"If a Christian cannot lose his salvation, then he is locked into his Christian faith. If he is locked into his Christian faith, then he is no longer free.
[/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.7)] [/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.7)] But the Bible affirms freedom of the Christian through the affirmation of apostasy, which is to fall away from faith or to reject God / Christ. Hebrews 6:1-8, Hebrews 10:26-31, 2 James 5:19-20 are some verses affirming apostasy of a Christian. These verses teach that this Christian was genuine to begin with."

to save the trouble of looking the verses up i will post them here and summarize afterwards.

[/COLOR]Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[SUP][a][/SUP] and of faith in God, [SUP]2 [/SUP]instruction about cleansing rites,[SUP][b][/SUP] the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And God permitting, we will do so.[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.7)]
[/COLOR][SUP]4 [/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][c][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.



If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[SUP][d][/SUP] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


[SUP]19 [/SUP]My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, [SUP]20 [/SUP]remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

I am going to summarize: It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, ... and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have recieved knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left for us. Someone who tramples the Son of God underfoot deserves to be punished. If one wanders from the truth and another brings them back, the one who brings them back has saved them from death.

There is one more verse, in my heart.
Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, all
sins
and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal
sin
.

Ok, here is my view which i believe is scripture based, from the evidence above. Now, i did not write this web page. I just took the first words of this post from the web page. I also didnt agree with all the verse quoted as one, supposedly used to support this position didnt support the position at all. If you follow the link below, you will see the web post contains an additional verse, 2 Peter 2:20-22. oops, actually i was thinking it didnt fit, but it does. The post is accurate. My first assessment of this verse in context was incorrect.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. [SUP]21 [/SUP]It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[SUP][g][/SUP] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

They knew the way of righteousness and turned their backs on it.

Ok, i know the post came from a source other than the op. It is not accurate according to the word. Remember we have to test everything we hear against the word to see if it fits. from acts chp 17? I think. Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. yes 17vs 11.

I wont argue with any of you about the Calvinist view posted. I believe each of these four verses, and even the fith about grieving the holy spirit all say clearly a person can be saved and then lose salvation, I dont really think of it as losing so much as denying, but one verse says wander away, which is a form of getting lost. There is that, which is a little different than the rest, i think thats the verse in james. Looking it over, perhaps three different ways to lose salvation permanently and one way, that is not irreversible but can be final. Ok even learning as i write this.

the verses in Hebrews 6:4-6 are about me. This is my position in Christ. I have been enlightened. I have tasted the heavenly gift. I have shared in the holy spirit. I have tasted the goodness of the word and the powers of the coming age. I have not fallen away. I became enlightened by God around 15 years ago, some ten years after i turned my life over to a God i did not believe in. the rest have been continual since then, I am tasting the heavenly gift, am sharing in the holy spirit am tasting the goodness of the word and the powers of the coming age. If i fall away, I will be condemned and deserving of that, even more so than allready. Frankly we all deserve to Go to hell for a single sin. How much more would i deserve hell if i fell away now, after living in the power of God for so long.

Ok let me look at the next one. these verses seem to me to be talking about someone very new in Christ. The only thing the saved people here have done is recieved the knowledge of the truth, but DELIBERATELY kept on sinning. that word is the key in this passage. We all sin even saved. We all continue in sin even saved. However we who belong to God practice God's commands and we confess our sins. OUr sins are not deliberate but, incidental. This is not an accident but a reality because we still reside in an earthly body that is corrupt and destined to decay and dust.
This verse to me seems to be about new believers deliberately standing against the truth they have recieved. Recieved is also key. We are talking about new born saved in Christ here.

James 5 verses are the ones that can be reversed. This is not a deliberate walking away or deliberate sin. It is just a person losing their way. This doesnt deny God's faithfulness. The thing about the op's post is while it does declaire God well, it ignores the will of a person. Freedom is freedom. If we are free we must always be free. If we are not free to turn away from God, then we are not free to love him. A robot can not love. Love for God is obedience to his commands. If there is no choice to disobey, then we could not love God. This is a fallacy of the post. It denys the saved the ability to obey, and love god through obedience. Anyway the verses from peter, show a person wandering off, and they can be brought back. We know Jesus leaves the flock to seek the lost sheep. God is faithful and will continually seek us if we wander off, he will continually call to us, however if we continually ignore that call and never come back, we are lost. Otherwise it would not conclude the thought with, the one who brings back the wanderer saves them.

The ones left are the verses from 2 peter. this covers it:
escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome. this is still a saved believer, still can be lost by getting entangled and overcome. this too isnt a deliberate denial. IF we think of it in physical terms, this is a teenager. Makes alot of sense to me. We have a verse about a mature believer, another about a newborn and this one about a believer "knowing" our lord and savior. this is beyound hearing the truth, this is a person who has known Jesus for some time.

this is very cool. I have known these verses but in answering this post God taught me more. these three verses, show every stage of a believer and show clearly any believer can still be lost after they are saved. We have a newborn in christ, we have one who has known Jesus, and finally we have those like me who have been enlightened. Spiritual maturity is different from physical maturity. It doesnt just happen with time. physically we are born, and we grow up and become adults. Spiritually some newborns remain newborns. They are saved but never mature. Some grow to various stages and still dont experience enlightenment. These are still saved. Just not receiving the abundance God would love to give us all. I recieved enlightenment in October, Maybe 2003? I can find out later and post it later. I said like its fifteen or around there. Anyway thats not on topic sorry.

to conclude, I have to disagree strongly with the post. I believe these verses I have shared show clearly a believer in any stage of spiritual maturity can indeed lose their salvation. It reminds me of the parable of the farmer sowing seeds. that which sprouts quickly then fades, that which is sown among thorns and gets choked out, that which is sown on fertile ground. I am willing to be wrong, if anyone can show me from scripture how these verses are not talking about saved believers. The last verse I quoted wasnt from the web page i quoted. It is about blaspheming the holy spirit. Here again God is continually teaching me. I have prayed about this verse since before i was enlightened. I remember a bible study in the early nineties, it was a book on difficult sayings in the bible. What i have thought was that this is the sin Satan and his demons committed. I thought that was true but also thought that we couldnt commit that sin. Now i see clearly we can. Obviously even a new born believer can blaspheme the holy spirit by deliberately sinning after receiving salvation. Never saw that before. Hmm, i am thinking, this looks like the newborn has to deliberately sin, the young in christ can be choked and that is still blasphemy of the holy spirit and the mature can merely fall away. Again God is teaching me. I thought, it would blasphemy of the Holy Spirit if i denied Jesus now, as a mature christian. But i get this. The more God gives us the more responsibility we have. The baby has to deliberately stand against what he has learned. The youth has to allow themselves to be choked away, the mature only have to allow themselves to fall away. Its like the more you have recieved the easier it is to fall, but truthfully it makes perfect sense. Again reminding me of another parable. Wow, i see more. Actually blasphemy of the holy spirit is what non believers do, all the unsaved who are never saved. I had it completely backwards. Lol thats typical. Demons and Satan, were all angels, all they had to do was disobey God one time and they are outta there. Blasphemy of the holy spirit is, love of wickedness and hatred of righteousness. this is unforgivable because it is a position that directly opposes God. It isnt just deliberate sin after learning the truth. It is standing directly opposed to God. Remember the scepter in Jesus hand has two sides, love of righteousness and hatred of wickedness. People trip when i say God commanded us to hate, but he did. He told us to hate what is evil. His scepter is the symbol of authority, it represents the power of the kingdom and who and what that kingdom is. Wow. I see the perfection of this as i never have before.

Thank you so much for the post. If you hadnt posted it, I wouldnt have gained so much in this response and I pray, that God speak to everyone reading this and that you too act like the noble Bereans and test everything i have written against the word of God, just as i have in this post.

Here is the link for the complete web page from which I took the words for the beginning of my post.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/2014...nite-with-god-if-he-rejects-and-denies-christ

I havent read the page nor do i know the site. I just goggle searched the subject because i was familiar with the verses particularly the ones in Hebrews. I found that and it fit so I used it.

Your servant in Christ
Joseph
[SUB][SUP]
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Mar 10, 2013
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yea again God has corrected me. I wrote in my post, "
I believe each of these four verses, and even the fith about grieving the holy spirit all say clearly a person can be saved and then lose salvation,
" when I wrote that, I was still under the misguided belief that you had to be saved to blaspheme the spirit, if you follow the post to the end God corrected my thinking yet again. This is very clear to me now, about the unsaved not the saved. The less you have recieved from God, the worse you have to be to be lost forever with no hope. Makes perfect sense to me.
 
Mar 10, 2013
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Once again after reading over my post prayerfully, I understand more. This has been like a study for me and its awesome. Questions i have had for twenty or more years answered. I used to think the verse about Blaspheming the holy spirit only applied to Angels. while i was posting, I reversed that view and saw how the unsaved can blaspheme the holy spirit. Now i realize, each of these verses, and guys this is just so amazing, different verses, different authors, different books written at different times, yet all together creating a picture that is God. A non believer can blaspheme the holy spirit only by directly opposing God. Loving wickedness and hating righteousness. A newborn believer has to deliberately continue to sin. A Person who has lived in Christ but not yet recieved enlightenment, which is most believers, can blaspheme the holy spirit by allowing themselves to be choked by worldly things, the mature and enlightened christian can blaspheme the holy spirit by merely falling away. It makes so much sense. Angels blaspheme by one single act of disobedience. The further from God you are the harder you must stand against God to blaspheme the holy spirit. The closer you are, the easier it is, because you have been given much, you are responsible to act accordingly.

God is so awesome.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
2,661
72
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Ralph, those verses are very simple and straightforward.

In verse 6 the two verbs "crucify again" and "put him to shame" are both present participles. Greek present participles uses as adverbs describe action happening at the same time as the main verb. Hence: it is impossible to renew them again to repentance while at the same time they are crucifying the Son of God and while at the same time they are putting him to an open shame.

To be able to repent, all the person needs to do is to stop "crucifying the Son of God" and "putting him to an open shame". Not saying it is easy to get a person to stop doing that, but it is not impossible!
The 'again' in vs. 6 is what makes it impossible for them to be brought back to repentance. Any unbeliever can repent and they are in. God will receive them. But these people the author is talking about are those who have believed once, but who turn away. They can't come to repentance AGAIN. God does not allow Christ to be REcrucified that way in such an open, shameful way. Once it's over, it's over. Later in the book of Hebrews the author cites the example of Esau to illustrate the danger of losing the inheritance through a return to sin in unbelief and ungodliness:


"15See to it... 16that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears."-Hebrews 12:15-17


See, he was locked out from repentance, even though he wanted it badly. God was not going to change his mind. There is nothing there about him not wanting it and not pursuing it and for that reason he can't come back to repentance. He was purposely locked out from coming back to repentance. This is a stern and serious warning to those who think they are 'once saved always saved' and can take the matter of sin and unbelief lightly because they think there is no way they can lose their salvation.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
2,661
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Hi all...How to be UN-SAVED...Never accept the LORD Jesus Christ as your Savior...xox...
And for the ones who say they have accepted Christ they'll know if they really did believe by if they kept believing to the very end. They can't know they have true belief that never turns back until they die. Not a very secure and assuring doctrine of salvation, but so many think it is.

In the Bible, you are saved as long as you are believing. No guessing, no wondering. If you presently believe, then you are presently saved, period. The only 'believer' who has to wonder if they are saved is if the one who says they believe but has no corresponding change of nature to go along with their claim of faith. That is the person who should examine himself to see if he is in the faith-2 Corinthians 13:5.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
2,661
72
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You have to?

John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for
without me ye can do nothing
.


Who is it that grows this fruit, again? You?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

What a dumb argument.

Everybody knows it is only through Christ that we can do all things.




Just in case you missed this one key verse...;
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
What does God not taking away the opportunity to be saved from later generations of Israelites have to do with a saved person not being able to lose the gift of salvation?




Will the person who wonders "What if", the double minded man, be the one that makes it in? Did you believe hard enough? Did you believe long enough? At this one particular moment, are you as saved as you were when you first believed?

You know that you believe and are saved by if you are living for God according to the fruit of the Spirit. Not by if you go to church, or lead a ministry, or teach a Bible study, or support your church's programs, or if you loudly and passionately proclaim the grace of God, but by if you are a changed person in character.

The person who lives for God by walking in the fruit of the Spirit does not have to wonder 'if' he believes and is saved. He is not double minded. He knows he is saved by the kind of person he is changing into. It is people who are still living in the sins of the flesh that can't have assurance of their salvation.




If YOU have to do it, did YOU get it done?

You can believe that you are a robot if you want. But for us rational people, we know it is by willfully submitting to the Spirit within that we find power to grow up into the image of Christ. Those that are doing that do not wonder if they have the belief that saves. Their lives testify that the Spirit of God is dwelling inside.




Or will it be the one who has 100% faith and confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ the one that makes it in? Not in our own sufficiency but in His. Not that we believed enough but that the Lord Jesus Christ is Powerful to Save.

We know who has believed unto salvation by if they are not living in the sins of the people around them. If you look and act just like the people of the world you may not be doing the believing that saves that you think you are. Examine yourself to see if you really are in the faith-2 Corinthians 13:5. Trust me, the world is examining you and I. They love hypocrites.
 
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overcomer21

Junior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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Amen Chester!

Ecc_12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Seems like many just look at part of the matter or equation. Yes there are plenty of promises that God states in His word that He will never leave you nor forsake you. No one can pluck you out of my hand. He will finish the work and so on.

However this is only part of the equation.

God is just simply revealing His character to you... I mean would you want to serve a God if He said, ah I might protect you, ah I might be able to save you?

Mat_10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

God tells us we have to endure to the end

1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Many will say the reason they are lost is they really never had the faith. How does one depart from something they don't have?

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Again Paul states if they fall away so obviously the argument doesn't hold water because you can't fall away if you don't have it to begin with.

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Paul admonishes us to study the event of Israel coming out of Egypt. Just as Jesus taught with parables, God doesn't change so He uses OT stories as parables to show us the plan of redemption. Israel leaves Egypt or sin (justification) to begin the sanctifying process of salvation. They get to the river Jordan and while camped there Balak the King of Moab wants Balaam to curse them.

Num 22:11 Behold, there is a people come out of Egypt, which covereth the face of the earth: come now, curse me them; peradventure I shall be able to overcome them, and drive them out.

Balaam could not curse them because they were in obedience to God's law. Read Lev 26 conditional promise for Obedience

Num 22:12 And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed.

Obviously at this time these people were in obedience to God and in a saved condition because it is only through the Holy Spirit that we can even keep God's commandments. What happens next is when Balaam tells Balak that he can not curse the people because of their obedience they devise a plan to lead Israel into sin with the Moabite women. After that many died and never crossed the Jordan to Canaan which is a depiction of Heaven. (Glorification)

Also what about the parable of the ten virgins in Matt 25?

Virgin = Purity - 1Co 7:34
Woman = Church - Eph 5
Lamp = Word of God - Psalms 119:105
Oil = Holy Spirit - Zech 4

I think this is safe to say this is God's true church and both the foolish and the wise virgins have their lamps burning. Mat 25:8 which means they both have to have oil in their lamps for it to light. They both have the Holy Spirit at the beginning of their walk, but while the bridegroom tarried (Christ). One class became careless and when the time came for Christ to come they awoke only to find they have no oil or Holy Spirit. They ask the wise to give them some, but they can not do this and tell them to go buy, as the foolish go to buy the door is shut and Christ says I know you not.

You can also read John 15:1-17

There are many examples in the Bible but as Solomon said there is no new thing under the sun.
Just as in Christ day many held on to beliefs that were not in scripture and even God himself could not convince them of the truth.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Obedience to the law shows that you are born again.

If the law arouses sin in you, you show yourself to still be in the flesh and not born again. If you are born again you KEEP his commandments, not get aroused to sin by the law. So it's easy to see this has nothing to do with earning your salvation by keeping the commandments of God (the only way you know how to hear works and salvation in the same sentence). It has everything to do with keeping his commandments if you are born again.
How much of the Law, Ralph?

The are 613 commandments in the Law. Do you keep them all? If not, why do you get to pick and choose?

The Bible says if you keep the Law, but stumble at a single point, you are guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10)

Do you break any of God's Law, Ralph?

Then you stand guilty.

The Bible says you must be perfect (Matthew 5:48) and since sin is the transgression of the Law, by your reasoning, you must keep the whole Law to be perfect. But the Bible says the Law made NOTHING perfect (Hebrews 7:18-19).

So, not only are you guilty, but you can't ever attain the required perfection by obeying the Law. And on top of all of that, Jesus abolished the Law for believers by His death, burial, and resurrection (Ephesians 2:15, Romans 6:14). It has been canceled and nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14).

The Bible says Christians are righteous (Romans 3:22) and 1 Timothy 1:8 says the Law is not for the righteous.

So, how can you say Christians need the Law if the Bible says we don't?

We have been justified without the deeds of the Law (Romans 3:28) yet you turn around and say we now need the Law to stay justified and saved. But Romans 3:27-28 says we are justified apart from observing the Law.

Galatians 3:10-12 says you have placed yourself under a curse, Ralph. Because the righteous will live by faith alone. You are one of the fools Paul spoke of in Galatians 3:2-3. Paul says you are alienated from Christ and have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).

And you want to take others down with you.

You claim Christians have to obey the Law, but the Bible says no one can obey it - not even the Jews to whom it was given (Galatians 6:13). We have been released from the Law (Romans 7:6). We are dead to the Law (Romans 7:4).

You need the Law because you have no idea what justification actually is. Justification means I am no longer guilty for my sins. None of them - past, present, or future. Not a single sin is attributed to me, or any Christian. They are forgiven (Ephesians 1:7) forgotten (Hebrews 8:12, 10:17) and thrown as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12).

By the one sacrifice of Jesus, Christians have been made perfect for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,597
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1.
John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

God calls us to the way and the truth (Jesus)
_____________


2.
John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

we become as children.... His children born again... new creatures
________________
3.

1 Peter 1:23
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

ephesians 1

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

this is forever... we are already His children... sealed by God
______________

4.


1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


those who fall from belief.... are not of those who are born again.... never Gods children... their departure shows how genuine their faith truely was

________________

5.


Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

romans 4 : 5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


it is by belief you are born again.... a genuine faith in Jesus as your SAVIOR....




Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

it is HIS Holy righteousness that will save me... by HIS grace and mercy... not my own.... dont be like the pharisees




____________


Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 10:3
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

just posted this in NBW


not sure when ill be back

figured id post it here too

:eek:

God bless you guys
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
2,661
72
48
How much of the Law, Ralph?

The are 613 commandments in the Law. Do you keep them all? If not, why do you get to pick and choose?

The Bible says if you keep the Law, but stumble at a single point, you are guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10)

Do you break any of God's Law, Ralph?

Then you stand guilty.

The Bible says you must be perfect (Matthew 5:48) and since sin is the transgression of the Law, by your reasoning, you must keep the whole Law to be perfect. But the Bible says the Law made NOTHING perfect (Hebrews 7:18-19).

So, not only are you guilty, but you can't ever attain the required perfection by obeying the Law. And on top of all of that, Jesus abolished the Law for believers by His death, burial, and resurrection (Ephesians 2:15, Romans 6:14). It has been canceled and nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14).

The Bible says Christians are righteous (Romans 3:22) and 1 Timothy 1:8 says the Law is not for the righteous.

So, how can you say Christians need the Law if the Bible says we don't?

We have been justified without the deeds of the Law (Romans 3:28) yet you turn around and say we now need the Law to stay justified and saved. But Romans 3:27-28 says we are justified apart from observing the Law.

Galatians 3:10-12 says you have placed yourself under a curse, Ralph. Because the righteous will live by faith alone. You are one of the fools Paul spoke of in Galatians 3:2-3. Paul says you are alienated from Christ and have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).

And you want to take others down with you.

You claim Christians have to obey the Law, but the Bible says no one can obey it - not even the Jews to whom it was given (Galatians 6:13). We have been released from the Law (Romans 7:6). We are dead to the Law (Romans 7:4).

You need the Law because you have no idea what justification actually is. Justification means I am no longer guilty for my sins. None of them - past, present, or future. Not a single sin is attributed to me, or any Christian. They are forgiven (Ephesians 1:7) forgotten (Hebrews 8:12, 10:17) and thrown as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12).

By the one sacrifice of Jesus, Christians have been made perfect for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)
Why are you posting the same old stuff to me again? Did you not read all the times I've answered these arguments?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,039
468
83
Why are you posting the same old stuff to me again? Did you not read all the times I've answered these arguments?
Maybe it's because he disagrees with all the stuff you have posted to him.

Reciprocating.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
8,388
196
63
Why are you posting the same old stuff to me again? Did you not read all the times I've answered these arguments?
Perhaps we don't read with the intention to hear, but to respond.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
2,661
72
48
Maybe it's because he disagrees with all the stuff you have posted to him.
Which is okay. He can believe whatever he wants. All he has to do is say he disagrees, but instead he's asking me the same questions again as if he had never asked me them before.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
2,861
126
63
Why are you posting the same old stuff to me again? Did you not read all the times I've answered these arguments?
Perhaps because you never truly answered them. Your habit is to dance around and simply spew the same garbage about works and the Law. You can't grasp the simple fact that if Christians have a single sin attributed to them, either Jesus would have to come back and die again for that sin, because without the shedding of blood there is no remission, or we would be damned.

You refuse to see that if we are as God says we are - perfect, holy, and righteous - we obviously have no sins attributed to us. If we did, we could be none of those things.

As stated in my last post, for Christians, the Law has no hold on us. None, zero, nada.

All you are doing is calling God a liar by trying to drag believers back under the Law.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
2,661
72
48
Perhaps because you never truly answered them. Your habit is to dance around and simply spew the same garbage about works and the Law. You can't grasp the simple fact that if Christians have a single sin attributed to them, either Jesus would have to come back and die again for that sin, because without the shedding of blood there is no remission, or we would be damned.

You refuse to see that if we are as God says we are - perfect, holy, and righteous - we obviously have no sins attributed to us. If we did, we could be none of those things.

As stated in my last post, for Christians, the Law has no hold on us. None, zero, nada.

All you are doing is calling God a liar by trying to drag believers back under the Law.
Post one of my answers to your questions that you think does not answer your question and I will make it clear to you.

By the way, I'm not a Messianic believer. Your problem is you are an ignorant Protestant who can only think of the law in terms of a strict old covenant keeping of the law. You can thank the Catholic church for making the church complete idiots when it comes to the law. They were so anti-Semitic that they stripped virtually everything Jewish out of faith in God.