I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

[jaybird88]

Blain,
you said something above that sounded kind of odd.

Question:
"You can be saved but not Christian?"
Your Answer:
"Yes you can be because the mark of a true believer is love not if your a Christian or Catholic"


I'm going to give you a break, and assume that maybe you were just really tired when you wrote this.

I think sometimes you mean to say a particular thing, but maybe you're tired, or on a lot of medication, and it just comes out funny.

If you want to rephrase that statement, or clarify it, I'll give you a chance to do that before I jump in.

actuall Blain is going with the teachings of Jesus and not letting man made laws lead him.

i am not aware of Jesus telling anyone a true believer is calling yourself Christian. but i do know when Jesus was questioned about the heavenly kingdom he answered love your heavenly Father, Love your brothers. key factor in both those commands, "Love"

i believe Blain is spot on

 

[Blain]

Blain,
you said something above that sounded kind of odd.

Question:
"You can be saved but not Christian?"
Your Answer:
"Yes you can be because the mark of a true believer is love not if your a Christian or Catholic"


I'm going to give you a break, and assume that maybe you were just really tired when you wrote this.

I think sometimes you mean to say a particular thing, but maybe you're tired, or on a lot of medication, and it just comes out funny.

If you want to rephrase that statement, or clarify it, I'll give you a chance to do that before I jump in.

No I stand by what I said and this is why, if you bear this mark then you are saved you are his child because this love I speak of is not our own it is not the kind of love the human heart knows it's love that far deeper and far stronger than we can imagine, a single drop of his love the love that comes from his heart only is more than our bodies can handle and I know from experience. The thing is this love is not just a feeling it is not something that comes and goes, if one has this love in their heats they naturally see through God's eyes they naturally love with his own heart they literally become just like jesus and naturally follow his words and teachings.

This love of God's changes who we are how we see how and what we believe our ways of doing things even our thoughts, so if a Catholic bears this mark then naturally they will follow God's heart and his ways

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

All I am saying is that while Many Christians talk about all the false things about Catholics we are not exactly innocent about that either. Let me ask you this, would rather me blindly believe all the things said about the Catholics and believe what I would believe based on what others say or would rather I seek the truth of the matter and either find out they are not as bad as everyone says or maybe have to learn the hard way all of it is true?

Can you blame me for wanting to see if it's true for myself?

As long as youre basing your thoughts on the catholic church on the word of God, and not your personal opinion on the people of the church itself, then I dont think its a problem

Dont let yourself be guided into a belief system that stands against Gods word by friendly people who talk about "love", though. It doesnt matter who you go to, every group of people is gonna go on about "love"

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

No I stand by what I said and this is why, if you bear this mark then you are saved you are his child because this love I speak of is not our own it is not the kind of love the human heart knows it's love that far deeper and far stronger than we can imagine, a single drop of his love the love that comes from his heart only is more than our bodies can handle and I know from experience. The thing is this love is not just a feeling it is not something that comes and goes, if one has this love in their heats they naturally see through God's eyes they naturally love with his own heart they literally become just like jesus and naturally follow his words and teachings.

This love of God's changes who we are how we see how and what we believe our ways of doing things even our thoughts, so if a Catholic bears this mark then naturally they will follow God's heart and his ways

Do you believe that merely loving people will save you, then?

 

[Blain]

Do you believe that merely loving people will save you, then?

No because as I said the love I speak of is not the kind of love we humans know love to be it's alien to us not of this world.
The Love of God is more than just loving others as I said it changes you it envelopes your entire being. Love is a verb an action and God's love is exactly what this verb means

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

No because as I said the love I speak of is not the kind of love we humans know love to be it's alien to us not of this world.
The Love of God is more than just loving others as I said it changes you it envelopes your entire being. Love is a verb an action and God's love is exactly what this verb means

Is that all that Christ told us to worry about? To love people? Im pretty sure he said more than that.

If you went to a mosque, and the muslims there preached about loving all people, no matter what, would you say they are of God? Knowing that they bow before a meteorite fallen from space, that they believe cleanses men of their sins? Christ told us to love each other, yeah. He also told us to live by the word of God.

 

[Ahwatukee]

As long as youre basing your thoughts on the catholic church on the word of God, and not your personal opinion on the people of the church itself, then I dont think its a problem

Dont let yourself be guided into a belief system that stands against Gods word by friendly people who talk about "love", though. It doesnt matter who you go to, every group of people is gonna go on about "love"

I would agree with that. Do the research on the RCC and not on the people, because we already know that God has people within her. But it is the entity of the RCC itself with all of her rites, rituals and dogmas that need to be investigated.

 

[maxwel]

No I stand by what I said and this is why, if you bear this mark then you are saved you are his child because this love I speak of is not our own it is not the kind of love the human heart knows it's love that far deeper and far stronger than we can imagine, a single drop of his love the love that comes from his heart only is more than our bodies can handle and I know from experience. The thing is this love is not just a feeling it is not something that comes and goes, if one has this love in their heats they naturally see through God's eyes they naturally love with his own heart they literally become just like jesus and naturally follow his words and teachings.

This love of God's changes who we are how we see how and what we believe our ways of doing things even our thoughts, so if a Catholic bears this mark then naturally they will follow God's heart and his ways

Blain, that's fine.
Thanks for responding.

I didn't want to jump into this if you were just tired and misspoke.

Basically, the statement you made previously had errors doctrinally, etymologically, historically, exegetically, and you even mixed two entirely different doctrines together and got them all confused.

I'll respond and break it all down later when I have more time.

Enjoy you weekend.

 

[jaybird88]

As long as youre basing your thoughts on the catholic church on the word of God, and not your personal opinion on the people of the church itself, then I dont think its a problem

Dont let yourself be guided into a belief system that stands against Gods word by friendly people who talk about "love", though. It doesnt matter who you go to, every group of people is gonna go on about "love"

you make it sound as if Blain is referring to some free love hippi from the 60s. the "friendly" person he is basing this on was Jesus. Jesus referred people to this 2 different times. also this is the answer Jesus gave when asked directly "how to enjoy the kingdom of heaven." and yet today so many ignore it.

Do you believe that merely loving people will save you, then?

Jesus said everything hinges on those 1st two commandments. He never said accept those commandments and nothing else. IMO if you can fully understand how to live by those 2, then all the rest will fall into place.

 

[crossnote]

Oh, I know they have doctrine. It would probably take a year to read it all. They just don't require a knowledge of it or acceptance of it, even for those set up to teach the people about what Catholicism is. Big difference.

I was never taught canon. Well, I was taught there was a canon but not what it was or who decided it. Neither were the priest and nuns.

I was taught disobeying the sixth commandment (Catholic version), meant I needed to brush my teeth in the morning and before I went to bed, and to take a bath every other night, making sure Saturday night was one of those nights. (Apparently, God was offended by BO.) How was I taught that? Don't you know the sixth commandment? It's "Thou shalt not be impure."

I was also taught transubstantiation. I believed it for years. Really shocked me when my 12th grade CCD instructor, (a young, hip priest) said it's not true. As a believer, I agreed. As a Catholic? My toes still tingle just thinking he taught Catholics that doctrine doesn't even matter.

I was raised believing I should eat fish on Friday nights. And then that changed, and absolutely no one explained why, except it was time to change that. It WAS doctrine. It really was one of those decrees that was supposed to be infallible. (Forgot the word. Really rusty on my Catholic training anymore.)

So, yupper. They've got lots and lots of doctrine, some of it changes, and yet most Catholics don't know it. It is possible for both to be true. Even the guy who keeps the records of doctrine at the Vatican is a homosexual, so "doctrine" really isn't all that important all the way up the ladder.

Doctrine did seem to matter...back then...when they ruled with an iron maiden. Now, when they are trying to win converts...the smiley face will do.

 

[Blain]

Is that all that Christ told us to worry about? To love people? Im pretty sure he said more than that.

If you went to a mosque, and the muslims there preached about loving all people, no matter what, would you say they are of God? Knowing that they bow before a meteorite fallen from space, that they believe cleanses men of their sins? Christ told us to love each other, yeah. He also told us to live by the word of God.

Again as I said it's more than loving people, look at Jesus look at all the things he did for ppl how he taught how he showed mercy how he prayed how far he was willing to go for us do you know what fueled his actions? Love. Love at least God's love is a supernatural steroid for a believer and without such a love without knowing such a love you will never truly know God nor truly see as he does.

When I became saved I asked God what does it mean to be a Christian how can I become strong in him and he gave me the best advice I ever received, seek love above all else and everything else will fall into place

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

you make it sound as if Blain is referring to some free love hippi from the 60s. the "friendly" person he is basing this on was Jesus. Jesus referred people to this 2 different times. also this is the answer Jesus gave when asked directly "how to enjoy the kingdom of heaven." and yet today so many ignore it.



Jesus said everything hinges on those 1st two commandments. He never said accept those commandments and nothing else. IMO if you can fully understand how to live by those 2, then all the rest will fall into place.

My point isnt that love is wrong, or that Christ never told us not to love. It was to be careful on following a doctrine merely because those who follow it preach love. How many earthly doctrines out there /dont/ make the concept of love a major part of their doctrine? You do have to follow the word of God, if you follow a doctrine that puts you against His word, you are putting yourself against Him. Back when I was a part of the lbgt, I preached of nothing /but/ love But that didnt make what I was doing right, I was still putting myself against God. Theres more to following God than loving others. I would agree that loving God will help you make His doctrine yours, but I do not believe that loving your neighbors will.

You should judge everything based on Gods word.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Again as I said it's more than loving people, look at Jesus look at all the things he did for ppl how he taught how he showed mercy how he prayed how far he was willing to go for us do you know what fueled his actions? Love. Love at least God's love is a supernatural steroid for a believer and without such a love without knowing such a love you will never truly know God nor truly see as he does.

When I became saved I asked God what does it mean to be a Christian how can I become strong in him and he gave me the best advice I ever received, seek love above all else and everything else will fall into place

I dont disagree that God commands us to love, but you cant follow a doctrine based on people preaching love alone. If their actions and teachings go against the word of God, do you believe they will be with God in the end? You need to use the word of God to make judgements on the world, that was my entire point Dont fall away to friendly faces, "it is no great thing that satans ministers masquerade as men of righteousness".

 

[atwhatcost]

Yes you can be because the mark of a true believer is love not if your a Christian or Catholic

This is a problem too. You think love is the gospel? You think you can be saved but not a Christian? A Christian is someone who follows Christ. It's the supernatural outcome of being saved. If you're looking for love, then I don't think you're ready to witness.

 

[atwhatcost]

No I stand by what I said and this is why, if you bear this mark then you are saved you are his child because this love I speak of is not our own it is not the kind of love the human heart knows it's love that far deeper and far stronger than we can imagine, a single drop of his love the love that comes from his heart only is more than our bodies can handle and I know from experience. The thing is this love is not just a feeling it is not something that comes and goes, if one has this love in their heats they naturally see through God's eyes they naturally love with his own heart they literally become just like jesus and naturally follow his words and teachings.

This love of God's changes who we are how we see how and what we believe our ways of doing things even our thoughts, so if a Catholic bears this mark then naturally they will follow God's heart and his ways

And you see this how?

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

If you're looking for love, then I don't think you're ready to witness.

This is true. The world does /not/ love Christ, so clearly they will not love His followers. They didnt then, and they continue to not do so.
We should love those who hate us, as Christ did. But we should not make love our priority, but instead make it faith in Him.
Its all about believing in Christ, love will come naturally out of faith in Him.

 

[jaybird88]

My point isnt that love is wrong, or that Christ never told us not to love. It was to be careful on following a doctrine merely because those who follow it preach love. How many earthly doctrines out there /dont/ make the concept of love a major part of their doctrine? You do have to follow the word of God, if you follow a doctrine that puts you against His word, you are putting yourself against Him. Back when I was a part of the lbgt, I preached of nothing /but/ love But that didnt make what I was doing right, I was still putting myself against God. Theres more to following God than loving others. I would agree that loving God will help you make His doctrine yours, but I do not believe that loving your neighbors will.

You should judge everything based on Gods word.

im not sure your seeing what im seeing. its great you were preaching love back in those days, but if the love you were preaching didnt lead you to understanding the other teachings of Jesus maybe your version of love was not the same as what He was talking about.
loving your neighbors i think is very important, its a very tough test. how hard is it to love those that we cant stand. i fail at this all the time but if my heart was fully focused on our Lord and his teachings i could easily do it.

 

[atwhatcost]

you make it sound as if Blain is referring to some free love hippi from the 60s. the "friendly" person he is basing this on was Jesus. Jesus referred people to this 2 different times. also this is the answer Jesus gave when asked directly "how to enjoy the kingdom of heaven." and yet today so many ignore it.



Jesus said everything hinges on those 1st two commandments. He never said accept those commandments and nothing else. IMO if you can fully understand how to live by those 2, then all the rest will fall into place.

But, can you tell if someone else is saved based on love? This is what Blain's plan is to judge them by love.

 

[crossnote]

This is much like what you're doing to Catholics on here. (And I'm making it personal, not because I believe this, but you see what you're doing to others.)

"Anyone stupid enough to believe in End Times theology in anyway is not saved. So kindly believe what I think or you're deceived."

(And just to belabor the point, I don't believe that at all.)

Does that really show the love of Christ at all? Did that convince you you're wrong? Would you have read pages and pages of that crap and that attitude? I would hope not.

So why do it to others? THAT's the attack! You're not the only one attacking. Actually you're attitude is less haughty than many on here. But it is an attack, and it's certainly not love.

That's why I asked if anyone has ever been saved by arrogance. Maybe it does work. Maybe I'm missing something. How would I know? I was saved through a rock opera. I just strongly suspect more were saved by a rock opera than the kind of haughty arrogance I've seen on this thread.

Strange part is Blain isn't even Catholic but people have shown him plenty of reasons why he can't get at any truth about Catholics on this site.

you're quote about ”end times and not being saved”, simply does not apply to me as I don't hold that a person's eschatology determines their salvation.

Now you are using my post of Trent's article XII which anathematizes us because of our view of justification, to criticize me...are you really that desperate for an example?
I'll fully admit that I come on strong with convictions and am somewhat polemic. Attack? Remember Eph 6 and those instruments of warfare?
Are you playing Holy Spirit again Lynn? LOL.
Yes, sorry I don't participate in every ecumenical lovefest here...that I save for Misc Forum.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

im not sure your seeing what im seeing. its great you were preaching love back in those days, but if the love you were preaching didnt lead you to understanding the other teachings of Jesus maybe your version of love was not the same as what He was talking about.
loving your neighbors i think is very important, its a very tough test. how hard is it to love those that we cant stand. i fail at this all the time but if my heart was fully focused on our Lord and his teachings i could easily do it.

I would agree, loving your neighbors is a major commandment and a part of being His follower, as He loved them to the point He died for them. But, my point is about following a doctrine based on only the fact that they talk about love. We must follow the word of God, will God save a man who bows before an idol? Even if that person was loving? You must be careful who you choose to listen to.