If Women Can't Have Authority Over Men in the Church, Why Are They Expected to Teach in School?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#341
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#341
rubberball said:
So your saying 'Exegetes' dont believe the Bible is the word of God and twist Scripture? So anyone who digs into the Greek and Hebrew language to search for understanding is twisting the word of God? Wow! So the Apostle Paul, who spoke koine Greek and understood OT Hebrew twisted the word of God when he read or studied or preached from the original languages? How can you even trust the Bible in your hand if exegetes twist the word of God? It took exegesis to translate the Scripture from the original language just so you could read it. The entire purpose off exegesis is to dig out the meaning of Scripture. Exegesis does not mean you cannot understand Scripture without knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. It does not mean the Holy Spirit is not your teacher. He is also the teacher of the exegete who has spent many hours studying so he or she can study the Bible on a deeper level. You criticise them for wanting to obey Scripture when it says for us to study to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed. I hope you try to rethink your argument here.
Click to expand...

Revelation 22:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

2 Corinthians 2 King James Version (KJV)

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.


Psalm 12 King James Version (KJV)

6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#342
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#342
Yes it does the fathers had failed to obey the word so all the men went to Huldah for the Lords opinion.
Yes abigail was raised up after Nabal died David married her.
Rahab was the only one he hid the spies, the only one who believed, all the others in Jericho perished. All her house was saved, nobody elses.
In example of Ruth, note that it was Boaz that got cold feet. You would think he would have just simply asked Ruth to marry him, but no he needed that extra push it seems.

Im not saying men are always foolish but that where men fail it will be the woman that saves the day. Just acknowledge that fact.

For men that are abosolutely upright and godly they acknowledge that without the support of their wives they just couldnt even accomplish half the things they do. Proverbs 31 tells us who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies.

To be a bishop or deacon its said they must be the husband of one wife. Why because a wife would support them in all that they do. Its a big job.
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#343
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#343
Lanolin said:
Well how do you read Pauls admonishishing (sp) then can you please explain it then. Clearly. If you did it before and I missed it sorry. But can you explain again what he meant by the 'for adam was first formed' bit.
Because it just makes zero sense. Was he talkig about a particular woman who was interrupting him or all women. Its not clear. Or was he just being chauvinistic, God forbid.
Click to expand...

It's is not only a matter of who was created first but the way Eve was created. She was created in the image of Adam. She has power to influence him since she is part of him. Manipulation and sexual influence makes sense because in the case of male students who become grown men, it becomes inappropriate for women to teach them since they can influence them sexually already. In church, they have to shut up because the angels are watching. These angels will be able to use their words to manipulate/distract men so they better shut up.


Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#344
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#344
Tinkerbell725 said:
It's is not only a matter of who was created first but the way Eve was created. She was created in the image of Adam. She has power to influence him since she is part of him. Manipulation and sexual influence makes sense because in the case of male students who become grown men, it becomes inappropriate for women to teach them since they can influence them sexually already. In church, they have to shut up because the angels are watching. These angels will be able to use their words to manipulate/distract men so they better shut up.


Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
Click to expand...
Ok well lets ask the men how they feel about women teaching them past the age of 13. Isnt that when a boy becomes a man. Jewish boys have their bar mitsvahs then.

Maybe that worked in jewish context of bible times where no woman was even going to school they were too bisy having children but in a place like ephesus that was hard to put into practice.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#345
Jun 30, 2015
25,595
13,858
113
#345
Lanolin said:
Yes it does the fathers had failed to obey the word so all the men went to Huldah for the Lords opinion.
Yes abigail was raised up after Nabal died David married her.
Rahab was the only one he hid the spies, the only one who believed, all the others in Jericho perished. All her house was saved, nobody elses.
In example of Ruth, note that it was Boaz that got cold feet. You would think he would have just simply asked Ruth to marry him, but no he needed that extra push it seems.

Im not saying men are always foolish but that where men fail it will be the woman that saves the day. Just acknowledge that fact.

For men that are abosolutely upright and godly they acknowledge that without the support of their wives they just couldnt even accomplish half the things they do. Proverbs 31 tells us who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies.

To be a bishop or deacon its said they must be the husband of one wife. Why because a wife would support them in all that they do. Its a big job.
Click to expand...
Frankly, your examples stretch relevance to the breaking point. The only example that I can see in Scripture of a woman who was raised to prominence subsequent to the abdication of a man was Jael, and she is not mentioned again. Boaz did not have the right to ask Ruth to marry him; there was another relative who was closer.

I will not acknowledge as fact something with which I don't think is truth. I don't see sufficient scriptural support for your point. Men can be godly without being married. Daniel and Paul are good examples. Being an elder is a big job, but consider that Paul also wrote the following in 1 Corinthians 7:

32 But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; 33 but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided.

So, the married man's interests are divided, but the unmarried man's godliness is questionable and he can't relate to married folks.
So nobody is fit for service as an elder.

Really?
 
R

rubberball

Guest
#346
#346
Tinkerbell725 said:
Revelation 22:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

2 Corinthians 2 King James Version (KJV)

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.


Psalm 12 King James Version (KJV)

6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Click to expand...
All the more reason to dig as deeply as one is able into the Scriptures. Those verses are not a reason not to.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#347
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#347
Lanolin said:
Ok well lets ask the men how they feel about women teaching them past the age of 13.
Click to expand...
Ideally men should be teaching Bible truth to all ages within the church. Therefore women teaching older boys or young adults in church would be a violation of Scripture.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#348
Jun 30, 2015
25,595
13,858
113
#348
Nehemiah6 said:
Ideally men should be teaching Bible truth to all ages within the church. Therefore women teaching older boys or young adults in church would be a violation of Scripture.
Click to expand...
No more so than men teaching younger women.
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#349
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#349
It
Lanolin said:
Ok well lets ask the men how they feel about women teaching them past the age of 13. Isnt that when a boy becomes a man. Jewish boys have their bar mitsvahs then.

Maybe that worked in jewish context of bible times where no woman was even going to school they were too bisy having children but in a place like ephesus that was hard to put into practice.
Click to expand...
Women teaching men and speaking in church meeting is an act of rebellion. If it is ok, why would Paul tell them to be quiet? We are given roles so we can survive in this messed up world. It's not like we live in heaven where everything is perfect that we can act like we are equal. Paul has authority because he is a worthy man and naturally a christian woman will obey. This situation clearly applies only to godly people of God. Why would a christian woman obey a man who is not a christian when her ultimate head is God?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#350
Jun 30, 2015
25,595
13,858
113
#350
Tinkerbell725 said:
It


Women teaching men and speaking in church meeting is an act of rebellion. If it is ok, why would Paul tell them to be quiet? We are given roles so we can survive in this messed up world. It's not like we live in heaven where everything is perfect that we can act like we are equal. Paul has authority because he is a worthy man and naturally a christian woman will obey. This situation clearly applies only to godly people of God. Why would a christian woman obey a man who is not a christian when her ultimate head is God?
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying

It's rather silly to think that the woman is prophesying silently.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#352
Jun 30, 2015
25,595
13,858
113
#352
Tinkerbell725 said:
You forgot the word uncovered. It means she can do so if given authority.
Click to expand...
You forgot the word silent. It means no sound. By your reasoning, if Paul forbids women from talking, nobody else can extend her the authority to speak.

Your inconsistency is your undoing. :)
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#353
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#353
Lanolin said:
Ok well lets ask the men how they feel about women teaching them past the age of 13. Isnt that when a boy becomes a man. Jewish boys have their bar mitsvahs then.
Click to expand...
OK, I'm going to go really-really far out on a limb and tell you the truth. At about age 13, males begin to look and act really weird around females, especially when they get under 'em. Most males never come out of this stage. Very few achieve the transcendence status of da oysta' :cool:
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#354
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#354
Tinkerbell725 said:
You forgot the word uncovered. It means she can do so if given authority.
Click to expand...
Don't let it bring you down when they cut you up. I appreciate your input very much. I give you full rights and authority to completely ignore abusive comments and discuss these things in a mature manner.

Do you think this covering implies a literal symbolic head covering as well? If you would rather PM me and avoid further abuse, I completely understand.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#355
Jun 30, 2015
25,595
13,858
113
#355
oyster67 said:
Don't let it bring you down when they cut you up. I appreciate your input very much. I give you full rights and authority to completely ignore abusive comments and discuss these things in a mature manner.

Do you think this covering implies a literal symbolic head covering as well? If you would rather PM me and avoid further abuse, I completely understand.
Click to expand...
Disagreement is abuse? Disagreement is "cutting you up"?

Do you consider it abusive when you express your disagreement with others?

Please quote what you consider abusive, so that we all can see.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#356
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#356
Dino246 said:
Your inconsistency is your undoing.
Click to expand...
Little things like this would hurt, even if they were true (that one was not true.) I confess to hurting you at times. It is a reflex reaction that I need to gain control of. I apologize. Please forgive me. I love you, brother.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#357
Jun 30, 2015
25,595
13,858
113
#357
oyster67 said:
Little things like this would hurt, even if they were true (that one was not true.) I confess to hurting you at times. It is a reflex reaction that I need to gain control of. I apologize. Please forgive me. I love you, brother.
Click to expand...
Thanks; I appreciate the gentle reply. On a few occasions I have written things that I regret, but I make an effort to criticize only ideas rather than persons.

The comment you quoted was not intended as an insult; I was addressing Tink's reasoning on a couple of verses. I believe she is being inconsistent, and therefore her position is untenable. It concerns me when people can't distinguish between comments about their ideas (which I consider fair game for criticism) and about themselves. I would hate to be in a society where truth is muzzled by hypersensitivity. It's already happening in the popular media.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#358
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#358
Dino246 said:
Frankly, your examples stretch relevance to the breaking point. The only example that I can see in Scripture of a woman who was raised to prominence subsequent to the abdication of a man was Jael, and she is not mentioned again. Boaz did not have the right to ask Ruth to marry him; there was another relative who was closer.

I will not acknowledge as fact something with which I don't think is truth. I don't see sufficient scriptural support for your point. Men can be godly without being married. Daniel and Paul are good examples. Being an elder is a big job, but consider that Paul also wrote the following in 1 Corinthians 7:

32 But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; 33 but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided.

So, the married man's interests are divided, but the unmarried man's godliness is questionable and he can't relate to married folks.
So nobody is fit for service as an elder.

Really?
Click to expand...
Where are you getting all this from? I nver said anything about being married or unmarried.

Dino, the reason why people find it hard to discuss anything with you is when you read a post you come to conclusions that the poster hasnt even said in their post. You dont just do it with me, you seem to do this with everyone.

Sorry.

I have something to say about OPs topic so I will just make another post rather than go down a rabbit trail if keep responding to your posts.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#359
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#359
OP.

I was reading a memoir called 'leaving church' by Barbara Brown Taylor. Its about a lady who became an episcopalian priest, and her experiences and then her leaving her country congregation after five years and becoming a reliigion teacher.

You might find it interesting regarding your question.

Aparently in episcopalian churches they had opened ordination to women only in recent times. But the author doesnt really address that side of it there, she focuses on what made her leave church...it seems the job became too much for her. I dont know why she just didnt take sabbatical ...stick it out for 2 more years and then have a year off. Her husband it seems was not in ministry, he was an engineer. She didnt have children. The book blurb says she is a reknowned preacher.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#360
Jun 30, 2015
25,595
13,858
113
#360
Lanolin said:
Where are you getting all this from? I nver said anything about being married or unmarried.

Dino, the reason why people find it hard to discuss anything with you is when you read a post you come to conclusions that the poster hasnt even said in their post. You dont just do it with me, you seem to do this with everyone.

Sorry.

I have something to say about OPs topic so I will just make another post rather than go down a rabbit trail if keep responding to your posts.
Click to expand...
My post is already two weeks old. You could have simply not responded to it. If you have a criticism of my posts, then own it. Alleged agreement from others is a manipulation tactic and is logically fallacious.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.