If Women Can't Have Authority Over Men in the Church, Why Are They Expected to Teach in School?

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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My post is already two weeks old. You could have simply not responded to it. If you have a criticism of my posts, then own it. Alleged agreement from others is a manipulation tactic and is logically fallacious.
Um no
Your posts just makes no sense becUse you. Often make up things nobody has even mentioned, then claim they say what you said. Just stop doing it ok. Thanks. Its not helping anybody.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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Anyway going back to OP.
Book/memoir i read that may give you something to think about
leaving church by barbara Brown Taylor

About an epsicopalian priest who left her congregation and went to teach religion at a university. It is just about her experiences. I found it interesting, but, I dont know if its really about gender so much is that she seemed to get burned out in her ministry. So it might just be the type of person, or she was too young, or becuase her husband wasnt also doing ministry with her.

If the church ordained her then, I cant see why it would be an issue her being female. It wasnt like she usurped anyones authority if the elders themselves ordained her.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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If the church ordained her then, I cant see why it would be an issue her being female. It wasnt like she usurped anyones authority if the elders themselves ordained her.
You seem to have missed the point. Those elders had no business ordaining her.
 

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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You seem to have missed the point. Those elders had no business ordaining her.
How do you know, where you actually part of that church? If not, you cant say anything, because you dont know what their 'business' is.
Im not missing anything, just reading one persons memoir. Why dont you ask the lady herself. She didnt call herself to the church...the position was offered TO her. When the previous priest retired.

I am not part of the episcopalian church so am not judging them. Just saying that she was called to that role. If the elders were wrong, well its on them anyway. She did leave after five years.

If she was the only one prepared to take on that role. Then what does that say about any of the other people that may have been called? who knows, maybe there just werent any!
 

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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Some research
https://www.episcopalchurch.org/library/glossary/ordination-women

According to this women were allowed to be ordained in the epsicopalian church in 1974, 3 bishops voted on this. And it was passed. Apparently there was some division in the church over this but in 1997 they decided it was wrong to bar women from priesthood just because they were female.

This is just the episcopalian church though, the OP mentioned the methodist church would not allow this.

I dont know who these bishops were it doesnt say. So if anyone has an issue, they need to take it up with that church I suppose, but if you not part of it, then, you preaching to the choir. The epsicopalian are known for being quite liberal.

I remmeber reading a memoir about a bishops daughter...called 'the Bishops daughter' and it was an expose about abuse in the church. So I dont know why theeyve decided to ordain women but i have a hunch it MAY have something to do with that.
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent
1 Tim 2

Paul is interesting in his letters. He makes two distinct points. The Lord says, and I say.
Paul here is saying in his culture and time, when women had no schooling or background
in academic study, letting them have authority and teaching in general is not helpful or right.

In our age, on such subjects as doctrine, theology, facts women are as authoritive as men.
Paul blessed the ministry of women as much as men, and recognised roles people took.

So we must be careful to appreciate peoples gifting and ability to minister not their sex.
 

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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In studying history...which Im hoping people here do as well cos we read the Bible which is itself also a history book. You will find that in world war 2 many women got called to the workforce, outside of their homes. Why, because the able bodied men had gone to war to fight and women were needed to keep the country running. So they got called to factoires and offices and jobs that tradtionally the men were doing. What happened was women found they enjoyed the work and didnt necessarily want to stay home after the men returned from war.

This happened not just in britain but in many nations. It happened in my country.
 
R

rubberball

Guest
This is about order in the church, not about the secular world. The Bible is the standard for faith and practice, not a denominations policies or a board of elders decisions. If the Bible is not our authority then we have no authority to guide us other than our own misguided intellect. Its back to 'everyone did what was right their own eyes.'
 
Mar 21, 2019
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YES! You got it right! I am even surprised where this is all coming from. Maybe this wisdom is from the leading of the Holy Spirit because I am not even a greek scholar. The Lord is not the author of confusion. It is so simple but we are making it complicated. The hair is the woman's power. She needs to cover it because of the angels. Remember samson? When delilah cut his hair, he lost his power. Hair is power. Woman needs to cover her head for protection from the angels who are attracted to her power and also as respect to her husband. When eve uncovered her head, she lost her protection and was exposed to the devil. So as Sarah who's mistake divided the nation of God because she influenced Abraham. Uncovering the head has caused serious consequences. Consequences are the result of sin.
I thought also in Genesis 6, the angels saw the daughters of men, and were seduced to sin by their beauty, producing the nephilim. The covering on her head shows she is protected.
 

Didymous

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Feb 22, 2018
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If that pastor has an addiction to watching illicit sex on his computer every night and another man can't be found to replace him, but yet his wife was leading a spiritually clean life and had the ability to lead, I would very prayerfully consider following the wife's leading instead.
The pastor should've stepped down, and I wouldn't want his wife to take over-especially if she hadn't brought it to the church's attention.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Um no
Your posts just makes no sense becUse you. Often make up things nobody has even mentioned, then claim they say what you said. Just stop doing it ok. Thanks. Its not helping anybody.
Would you like to resolve this, or would you prefer to remain resentful and critical? PM me if the former.
 
Mar 21, 2019
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The pastor should've stepped down, and I wouldn't want his wife to take over-especially if she hadn't brought it to the church's attention.
Do you think that some men are drawn to pornography because their wives are not attending to their needs? This would be another reason I would be cautious about giving his wife any authority, even if it was within the biblical scope.

It seems more and more popular these days for women to be away from the home for various reasons - some good, others not. But there were some useful posts previously - I disagreed with the intent, but the explanation seemed accurate - that woman was created to be an "ezer kenegdo" to the man - powerful warrior, even rescuer. But how can a powerful warrior/rescuer save her husband, if she becomes too busy fighting other battles somewhere else?
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
First of all, we have on this forum those attempting to interpret spiritual things in the natural realm. The Word of God is not understood by the flesh. The Word of God is not understood by the flesh. THE WORD OF GOD IS NOT UNDERSTOOD BY THE FLESH! It’s impossible, therefore ludicrous to assume we can put ourselves right with God by obeying laws and commandments, let alone laws and commandments of strange men on a website.

Secondly, the letter of the law is dead. The letter of the law is dead. THE LETTER OF THE LAW IS DEAD! Jesus Christ is Spirit and Truth, He is not a man of flesh, He is not a written law. You are spiritual sons of God, no longer male or female, jew or gentile, slave or free. Even Jesus Himself is no longer a man of flesh. We are crucified with Christ, He lives in us. We walk in His spirit, no longer in the flesh. We are all brethren, we are all sons of God, we are all priests and saints, we are all a royal priesthood in Jesus Christ. IN CHRIST JESUS, not in man's interpretation or understanding.

As long as you are trying to understand the spirit of God in your intellect, in your fleshly mind, you are in error. Not one man on this earth has the power to understand the spiritual things of God in their own understanding. These are spiritual truths only God Himself can reveal to us by Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ Himself is the Law fulfilled and He Himself rules and reigns in each of us, individually and collectively, directing us in His own plans and purposes. Jesus reigns in you. JESUS REIGNS IN YOU!

Anyone commanding that you follow the letter of the law according to his or her own understanding is in error. They are simpletons to even suggest it. What does the Spirit say in your heart? Does God tell you to follow after men in this world or after Him? We leave all and follow Christ, not man. We serve God, not man.

Only the Holy Spirit can reveal to you what these scriptures mean. They are not understood in the flesh, remember that. These are words of life only to your spirit. May your ears be open to hearing Him.

Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. – 2 Corinthians 3:5,6

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians 3:28

Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin. - Romans 3:20

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. – Romans 7:6

For indeed, there is a putting away of the preceding commandment, because of its weakness and uselessness - Hebrews 7:18

And there you have it: there is therefore now no transgression of the law, sin is no longer imputed because sin is dead. We are dead in the flesh, for we live by the Spirit of God in Christ Jesus. This is spiritual life in Christ.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent
1 Tim 2

Paul is interesting in his letters. He makes two distinct points. The Lord says, and I say.
Paul here is saying in his culture and time, when women had no schooling or background
in academic study, letting them have authority and teaching in general is not helpful or right.

In our age, on such subjects as doctrine, theology, facts women are as authoritive as men.
Paul blessed the ministry of women as much as men, and recognised roles people took.

So we must be careful to appreciate peoples gifting and ability to minister not their sex.
That distinction is critical as there can be quite a difference between what God allows verses what Paul does not permit. I am not saying that what Paul says should be discarded but rather it must be carefully studied in the context that it was provided.
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
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Philippines Age 40
I found this site. Biblical qualifications of a pastor. A woman is not found in the Biblical qualifications. Since we are not under the law, are we supposed to ignore this qualifications? What is the purpose of these qualifications then, if we can just ignore them?

https://www.acts29.com/biblical-qualifications-of-a-pastor/
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
I found this site. Biblical qualifications of a pastor. A woman is not found in the Biblical qualifications. Since we are not under the law, are we supposed to ignore this qualifications? What is the purpose of these qualifications then, if we can just ignore them?

https://www.acts29.com/biblical-qualifications-of-a-pastor/
I found this link. You tell me which church's Biblical qualifications are the right ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

Or perhaps the church is a spiritual body of believers where Christ is the Head.

It’s wrong to believe that following rules in the Bible or according to a denominational group will give us life, that these written rules and regulations will bring us Christ. That’s desertion of the truth. The Bible is a witness of Jesus Christ. It’s a written testimony of many different men hearing from God. Jesus said in John 5:39, "You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me." The Jews were wrong in thinking that the scriptures could give them life. So are we if we believe the same. The scriptures testify of Jesus Christ, but they cannot give us life.

Jesus said, "Follow Me!" We need the anointing of the Holy Spirit to follow God, the very presence of Christ in us to have life in Him.

If you really want to know what "qualifications" to live by, ask God. He's faithful to answer.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,134
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I found this site. Biblical qualifications of a pastor. A woman is not found in the Biblical qualifications. Since we are not under the law, are we supposed to ignore this qualifications? What is the purpose of these qualifications then, if we can just ignore them?

https://www.acts29.com/biblical-qualifications-of-a-pastor/
This site provides a fairly sound explanation of the various qualifications. Its treatment of gender is reasonable, though it assumes only men may be elders instead of deeply examining the "husband of one wife" statement.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,436
3,098
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Do you think that some men are drawn to pornography because their wives are not attending to their needs? This would be another reason I would be cautious about giving his wife any authority, even if it was within the biblical scope.

It seems more and more popular these days for women to be away from the home for various reasons - some good, others not. But there were some useful posts previously - I disagreed with the intent, but the explanation seemed accurate - that woman was created to be an "ezer kenegdo" to the man - powerful warrior, even rescuer. But how can a powerful warrior/rescuer save her husband, if she becomes too busy fighting other battles somewhere else?
You raise an interesting question, but then why does a man turn to pornography, what need does that fufil. Some Men would have been looking at pornogprahy even before they married, why would any sane person sauggest that a wife is meant to satsify a mans perverse lust?
I remember a lady posting on another christian forum how she did stay at home and her husband still was into pornography and wanted her to participate in his perversion. She thought that she was meant to act pornographically for him. And he got into homosexuality and all other perversions too.

God showed her this was wrong!
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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3,098
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That distinction is critical as there can be quite a difference between what God allows verses what Paul does not permit. I am not saying that what Paul says should be discarded but rather it must be carefully studied in the context that it was provided.
I think Paul just had some problems with really noisy women in his congregation. They were probably calling out and interrupting him with questions all the time.

When you a teacher this can be annoying.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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How do you know, where you actually part of that church?
I know because the Bible tell us that they were out of line. I'm sure you'll find that in your Bible.