If Women Can't Have Authority Over Men in the Church, Why Are They Expected to Teach in School?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,476
3,116
113

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
3,982
1,002
113
Philippines Age 40
People (or organizations) can make the Bible their final authority and still disagree on the right way to interpret it.

The scriptures are not Jesus. The scriptures are not eternal, are not God, weren't born of a virgin, didn't die on a cross, weren't resurrected three days later, and aren't coming again in glory to judge the living and the dead.
Matthew 24:35 King James Version (KJV)

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,476
3,116
113
Theres one thing that kinda annoys or puzzles me, and i notice men dont do this, but women do, is asking if they can ask a question.

I rememeber one lady I worked with who would always do this, she would ask 'can i ask you something?' I dont know why she didnt just ask what she wanted to ask instead of asking if she can ask.

I wonder what she would have said if i said no. You cant ask me any questions. Go away. Or...ask your husband.

Or maybe she was meanig are you able to answer my question. But how would I know if she hadnt even asked me it yet.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,476
3,116
113
Unless she was meaning asking for a favour. I really dont like when people think they can just ask favours all the time. So rude.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
398
83
One problem is the issue of knowing everything the Bible says about a specific issue. It requires a Systematic Theology book that lists all the verses on a topic. It is a big expensive book. There are several versions published.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
691
113
Hello,

I've seen the debate over whether or not women can be pastors/lead in the church many times, and have gone through many Bible studies in which this is discussed and examined. I also grew up in a church that did NOT believe women could hold positions of authority, unless it was as a deaconess to younger women in the church.

This is NOT meant to be a debate over whether women can be pastors at all.

Rather, I once read a post that addressed something that really sparked my interest, seeing as I grew up in Christian schools.

* If women are not allowed to speak or be leaders/teachers in the church, why are women relied on to teach Sunday School, vacation Bible school, and in Christian schools and colleges (such as what I grew up in)?

* Why do many of these tasks (geared toward children and young adults) seem to automatically be deligated as "women's work"? And yet, I would guess most parents in the churches I grew up in would not bring their kids to Sunday School if the entire Sunday School staff was all men.

I am certainly NOT saying ANYTHING against men who work in ministries that serve children--I'm just saying that when I've asked some parents how they would feel about dropping their kids off with an all-male Sunday School/children/teen church staff, they're don't seem to be entirely comfortable with the idea. But maybe this is only in the churches I've been in?

I have to wonder why it's so often thought that it's perfectly fine (even expected, and a spiritual duty) for women to teach and lead children, and young adults, but not full-grown adults? (I don't meant this as a debate or a criticism, but as an honest question.)

* Does that mean that once her students turn 18 (or 21, or whatever age is defined as being an "adult"), any spiritual leadership and authority she had over them the day before their "adulthood" birthday is now null and void, and does a male studen now automatically have spiritual authority over her, even if she's twice his age?

* If so, why are women allowed to teach at Christian colleges?

* And if a woman loses any spiritual authority over a man when he comes of age, what is being taught in churches to reinforce this? Are young men told that they now have spiritual leadership and authority over the women in the church once they turn that age?

* Will the men of the church tell their wives that they must follow and submit to the spiritual lead of any 18-year-old (or whatever the age of adulthood is seen as) on the ministry staff?

* Why is this topic never addressed whenever it's said that women can't hold positions of spiritual leadership in the church?

I would really like to see this discussed, as it always seemed to be glossed over.

Is a woman allowed to teach your male child/relative, but does he then have spiritual authority over her in the church once he becomes an adult?
Back then it was only the boys who went to school. The wife learnt from her husband and passed it on to the children.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
398
83
Then there is fact of different translations. Using my smartphone with a web page on the browser set to biblegateway.com where I can select book and chapter. Then I can select the translation. Switching between translations I can get more information with the different words used. AMPC gives much more information in parentheses.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
691
113
Nope cant find it anywhere, care to explain.

Are you talking about the elders. You seem to be assuming things without really thinking it through.

Also Paul was speaking in the context of women keeping silence in church i.e waiting their turn. Why does he mention adam first, eve second in the order they were created?

He would permit a woman to speak, when she got home to ask her husband it seems. They key thing is silence.

Do we know how big these congregations were and how noisy the early church was.
Have you ever taught a class. Do you speak when the teacher is speaking? . No. You wait your turn and dont interrupt. Why was Mary praised by Jesus and not Martha who was complainng, probably loudly. mary was listening.

As for elders, they are supoosed to be Of righteous character. If the elders decide to ordain a woman, there would be good reason. While you may ask why, I ask WHY NOT. Its like people who dont believe women can be doctors or engineers, or write books, or do anything with her God given intelligence.
Yep still coming upon this prejudice, centuries later.
The women talked all the way through the service. They only knew the language of the market place, but the service I think was held in Koine Greek. It would be like me going to church where the service was held in Latin.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,152
8,230
113
The women talked all the way through the service. They only knew the language of the market place, but the service I think was held in Koine Greek. It would be like me going to church where the service was held in Latin.
Evidence for these assertions?
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
5,258
1,356
113
The calling of a woman is to become a supporter. While men are to become leaders. A supporter is not an inferior role or a despicable role. God designed the supporter role because man will not be able to fulfill his destiny or the will of God by himself.

In marriage, if the man is worthy, the wife becomes his helper. If he is not worthy, she will be against him. That is why the wife is so loud and becomes a nagger. That is her way of helping the man or reminding the man to fulfill his destiny. That does not necessarily mean that the wife is trying to lead the man. If the wife is not behaving the way God designed her, the husband must evaluate if he is being a worthy leader. If the wife is trying to lead the husband she is not conforming to God's will and the marriage is doomed.

A marriage is just a small institution. If a man can't lead his wife, how can he lead a church? And the wife is subject to the leadership of her husband. So the church is meant to be led by a man in my opinion, since a single woman's capacity to lead a church is most likely questionable.
the wife does not to nagg, she just needs to do two things and the man will give in.
 

Wordsone

New member
May 22, 2019
5
6
3
Hello,

I've seen the debate over whether or not women can be pastors/lead in the church many times, and have gone through many Bible studies in which this is discussed and examined. I also grew up in a church that did NOT believe women could hold positions of authority, unless it was as a deaconess to younger women in the church.

This is NOT meant to be a debate over whether women can be pastors at all.

Rather, I once read a post that addressed something that really sparked my interest, seeing as I grew up in Christian schools.

* If women are not allowed to speak or be leaders/teachers in the church, why are women relied on to teach Sunday School, vacation Bible school, and in Christian schools and colleges (such as what I grew up in)?

* Why do many of these tasks (geared toward children and young adults) seem to automatically be deligated as "women's work"? And yet, I would guess most parents in the churches I grew up in would not bring their kids to Sunday School if the entire Sunday School staff was all men.

I am certainly NOT saying ANYTHING against men who work in ministries that serve children--I'm just saying that when I've asked some parents how they would feel about dropping their kids off with an all-male Sunday School/children/teen church staff, they're don't seem to be entirely comfortable with the idea. But maybe this is only in the churches I've been in?

I have to wonder why it's so often thought that it's perfectly fine (even expected, and a spiritual duty) for women to teach and lead children, and young adults, but not full-grown adults? (I don't meant this as a debate or a criticism, but as an honest question.)

* Does that mean that once her students turn 18 (or 21, or whatever age is defined as being an "adult"), any spiritual leadership and authority she had over them the day before their "adulthood" birthday is now null and void, and does a male studen now automatically have spiritual authority over her, even if she's twice his age?

* If so, why are women allowed to teach at Christian colleges?

* And if a woman loses any spiritual authority over a man when he comes of age, what is being taught in churches to reinforce this? Are young men told that they now have spiritual leadership and authority over the women in the church once they turn that age?

* Will the men of the church tell their wives that they must follow and submit to the spiritual lead of any 18-year-old (or whatever the age of adulthood is seen as) on the ministry staff?

* Why is this topic never addressed whenever it's said that women can't hold positions of spiritual leadership in the church?

I would really like to see this discussed, as it always seemed to be glossed over.

Is a woman allowed to teach your male child/relative, but does he then have spiritual authority over her in the church once he becomes an adult?
The scripture often referred to (with regard to limiting women’s roles in the church), is written by the apostle Paul 1 Tim 2:12. Paul was not saying women in general should not teach men in the church. He was talking about spiritual authority in the context of husbands and wives. He is saying that wives should not usurp their husband’s authority by speaking inappropriately when in the church. This misinterpretation has oppressed women for generations. Paul had many female leaders throughout the early church who led house churches, and served in various ministerial roles.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,476
3,116
113
I came across this interesting passage Numbers chapter 30

I think this is what Paul was referring to re husbands and wives and obeying. And wives talking before husbands. In a sense it offers a husbands or fathers protection if a wife or daughter says something foolish., he bears the iniquity because he allowed it.

If I'm reading it correctly, interestingly a widowed or divorced wife has no such protection and everything she says she must honor. Since shes just speaking for herself I guess.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,521
113
Hello,

I've seen the debate over whether or not women can be pastors/lead in the church many times, and have gone through many Bible studies in which this is discussed and examined. I also grew up in a church that did NOT believe women could hold positions of authority, unless it was as a deaconess to younger women in the church.

This is NOT meant to be a debate over whether women can be pastors at all.

Rather, I once read a post that addressed something that really sparked my interest, seeing as I grew up in Christian schools.

* If women are not allowed to speak or be leaders/teachers in the church, why are women relied on to teach Sunday School, vacation Bible school, and in Christian schools and colleges (such as what I grew up in)?

* Why do many of these tasks (geared toward children and young adults) seem to automatically be deligated as "women's work"? And yet, I would guess most parents in the churches I grew up in would not bring their kids to Sunday School if the entire Sunday School staff was all men.

I am certainly NOT saying ANYTHING against men who work in ministries that serve children--I'm just saying that when I've asked some parents how they would feel about dropping their kids off with an all-male Sunday School/children/teen church staff, they're don't seem to be entirely comfortable with the idea. But maybe this is only in the churches I've been in?

I have to wonder why it's so often thought that it's perfectly fine (even expected, and a spiritual duty) for women to teach and lead children, and young adults, but not full-grown adults? (I don't meant this as a debate or a criticism, but as an honest question.)

* Does that mean that once her students turn 18 (or 21, or whatever age is defined as being an "adult"), any spiritual leadership and authority she had over them the day before their "adulthood" birthday is now null and void, and does a male studen now automatically have spiritual authority over her, even if she's twice his age?

* If so, why are women allowed to teach at Christian colleges?

* And if a woman loses any spiritual authority over a man when he comes of age, what is being taught in churches to reinforce this? Are young men told that they now have spiritual leadership and authority over the women in the church once they turn that age?

* Will the men of the church tell their wives that they must follow and submit to the spiritual lead of any 18-year-old (or whatever the age of adulthood is seen as) on the ministry staff?

* Why is this topic never addressed whenever it's said that women can't hold positions of spiritual leadership in the church?

I would really like to see this discussed, as it always seemed to be glossed over.

Is a woman allowed to teach your male child/relative, but does he then have spiritual authority over her in the church once he becomes an adult?
Spiritual authority over her? No such thing. We do not have spiritual authority over no one to begin with. No even our own selves.

I would say the affect of the first century reformation would still seem it were not applied . Prior men and woman together were not allowed to be part of the ceremonies .The new government brought woman into a place equal with men. No lording it over. Like the work place in the 60's divorce rates sky rocketed destroying the atmosphere . (not a place for dating or getting the scoop .)

If woman cannot preach the gospel in a ceremonial setting than neither can men .It is not about playing church but is about getting the gospel out . The government has ben restored to a time period when there were Judges .(no outward representation as with King's) .

Deborah was used mightily to bring the gospel. Just as there are Deborah's today so are their men like Barak who have not been given the strength to go it alone .

Judges 4:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh. And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him.

God is not respecter of persons as if he was served by human hands (male or female) . he used Balaam's Ass to bring the gospel. .it successfully prevented the madness of that false prophet.

Women are saved from not teaching males about relationship matters in childbirth. At home they have the responsibility as a gift of God to teach boys to become men .If they do not learn from their mothers they will get an extension in their wives. Same with daughters learning from their fathers .They can get an extension in their husbands. In that way you could say its not a mater of flesh and blood.
Jesus made it clear that position is after no n man to include Himself . If woman cannot plant the incorruptible seed than neither could man .

Even Jesus when called good master (Rabbi teacher he )gave glory to the father unseen . In that way we are to call no person man or woman teacher on earth in the same way we are to call no man father on earth, one is our teaching father in heaven. Jesus learned from the father in the same way as us. one commandment at a time.

The teaching had to do with male female relationship difficulties . Wife should ask there own husband at home. Previously in the time period of Kings before the reformation woman were isolated for participating in the ceremonial laws used as shadows and that period time that was used a parable came to a end. The government was restored to a previous order. where woman like Deborah (Bee) have a q equal part in getting the gospel into the world . And it does mean during ceremonies it does nor apply . So then it what is being taught. If it is the gospel the ant one can plant the seed..

Acts 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,521
113
The scripture often referred to (with regard to limiting women’s roles in the church), is written by the apostle Paul 1 Tim 2:12. Paul was not saying women in general should not teach men in the church. He was talking about spiritual authority in the context of husbands and wives. He is saying that wives should not usurp their husband’s authority by speaking inappropriately when in the church. This misinterpretation has oppressed women for generations. Paul had many female leaders throughout the early church who led house churches, and served in various ministerial roles.
Paul was not saying women in general should not teach men in the church by offering the gospel . Remember one is our teacher in heaven. We are to call no one teacher Rabbi on earth .In the same way we are to call no man father on earth .One is our teaching father in heaven .

If even Jesus refused to stand in the holy place and desecrate it as a abomination. But rather said only God not seen is good (the place of faith) Then why would we think we can divide what he has called together as one?.

The gospel is not set aside just because men and woman gather together,. It's what they were teaching that should be addressed at home.( personal relationship) .Much empty talk can only create gossip. Not a place to learn about the private affairs . . Woman can ask their own man at home. Same with men ask their wives or they can go together to the pastoral service the husband and wife.( Must be married)
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,521
113
That's silly. Where but the Church would a Christian go for godly wisdom and counsel on relationships? Not every community has a gifted Christian counselor, and many people wouldn't go to a professional counselor anyway, but might go to a pastor.
Yes Not every community has a gifted Christian counselon. But that does not change the guilde lines as qualifications.

Must be married and able to keep children as having a good report. .Its a family affair .Two by two. Its never been male or female.