Interesting insight (John 3v36) OSAS take note

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Bbrdrd

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#61
Apr 2, 2020
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#61
Blain said:
Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it it isn’t true isn’t that literally what we believe in as Christians? I have never seen or experienced healing but I believe anyways
to butcher the word would be to cut or take away from it but how can you do that in the original text there is nothing to cut or take away from it’s the original
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This really is a place where looking at the original languages can improve our understanding. We can set aside pisteo for a moment and look only at the word used for "believe not" which is apeitheo and is very telling.

This word is not merely failing to believe but an active attitude of being unpersuadeable. It is an active disbelief which is why it is also translated as disobedient.

In both belief and disbelief within the verse the words are active. Believe is have a deep, abiding trust and believe not is willfully resist efforts to convince.

It highlights that man apart from God is not neutral but in active rebellion against God.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#62
Jan 12, 2019
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crossnote said:
Not sure how it can be stolen

1 Peter 1:4 (KJV) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
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Either Peter cannot be referring to salvation there, or he did not meant that salvation cannot be lost for Israel.

Otherwise, he would have contradicted himself when he stated later in 1 Peter 4

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#63
Jul 2, 2011
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throughfaith said:
I'm talking about being Justified. not what we do AFTER we are saved . Do you say your saved ? if so from what ?
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Blessed is sthe man to whom God does not impute the guilt of his sin, and this includes all who are saved. You are making salvation something to be questioned by man, please stop this line.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#64
Aug 4, 2020
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#64
JaumeJ said:
Blessed is sthe man to whom God does not impute the guilt of his sin, and this includes all who are saved. You are making salvation something to be questioned by man, please stop this line.
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I'm not the legalist here .
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#65
Jul 2, 2011
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#65
If your reference to legalism is a reference to my posting, you are not very clever in your manipulations. If you believe obeying the commandments of Yeshua is legalism, I am afraid your knowledge of His teaching is totally lacking.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#66
Aug 4, 2020
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#66
JaumeJ said:
If your reference to legalism is a reference to my posting, you are not very clever in your manipulations. If you believe obeying the commandments of Yeshua is legalism, I am afraid your knowledge of His teaching is totally lacking.
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obey which commands of Jesus ? can you be specific and do we keep theses commands to be saved ? is that the way of salvation, keeping commands ?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#67
Aug 4, 2020
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#67
JaumeJ said:
Blessed is sthe man to whom God does not impute the guilt of his sin, and this includes all who are saved. You are making salvation something to be questioned by man, please stop this line.
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Yes I believe all theses verses in Romans 4 .
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5¶But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9¶Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Once saved , stays saved .
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#68
Jul 2, 2011
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#68
You line of interrogation is nothing less than very sad. You I must consider a lawyer or a Pharisee. You know I have already shred with you which commands are yet in force but you ignore and accuse, very nice. Total lack of the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#69
Aug 4, 2020
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#69
JaumeJ said:
You line of interrogation is nothing less than very sad. You I must consider a lawyer or a Pharisee. You know I have already shred with you which commands are yet in force but you ignore and accuse, very nice. Total lack of the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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No pharisee believes in this age once saved aways saved . They are the legalists who seek to place burdens on those that they themselves do not keep .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#70
#70
KJV1611 said:
I've never seen one person in my 25 years of Christianity come to a deeper understanding of anything by consulting the "original languages". I've seen a lot of people butcher the true meaning like what was done here.
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I never had a true deep understanding of the word until I was awoken by the origional languages.
and I grew up old KJV only,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#71
#71
Bbrdrd said:
This really is a place where looking at the original languages can improve our understanding. We can set aside pisteo for a moment and look only at the word used for "believe not" which is apeitheo and is very telling.

This word is not merely failing to believe but an active attitude of being unpersuadeable. It is an active disbelief which is why it is also translated as disobedient.

In both belief and disbelief within the verse the words are active. Believe is have a deep, abiding trust and believe not is willfully resist efforts to convince.

It highlights that man apart from God is not neutral but in active rebellion against God.
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Amen,it’s deeper than mere belief, and it is different then mere unbelief,

the English language fails us here
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
#72
JaumeJ said:
If your reference to legalism is a reference to my posting, you are not very clever in your manipulations. If you believe obeying the commandments of Yeshua is legalism, I am afraid your knowledge of His teaching is totally lacking.
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You still do not get it, and still not understanding what people are trying to show you
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
#73
JaumeJ said:
You line of interrogation is nothing less than very sad. You I must consider a lawyer or a Pharisee. You know I have already shred with you which commands are yet in force but you ignore and accuse, very nice. Total lack of the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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Sadly you still do not understand phariseeism either,

you have been shown so many times that yes, sin is still sink but that NO ONE can keep Gods law.l and whoever thinks it is required for salvation is in fact a legalist
 
Duskey

Duskey

Banned
#75
May 31, 2020
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#75
Chris1975 said:
Two different words are used for believe in John 3v36. Using the KJV and Strongs concordance below:

John 3v36 KJV 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Strongs: 3:36 He that believeth 4100 5723 on 1519 the Son 5207 hath 2192 5719 everlasting 166 life 2222: and 1161 he that believeth not 544 5723 the Son 5207 shall 3700 0 not 3756 see 3700 5695 life 2222; but 235 the wrath 3709 of God 2316 abideth 3306 5719 on 1909 him 846.

- The first believeth is
Word: pisteuw
Pronounce: pist-yoo'-o
Strongs Number: G4100
Orig: from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. G4102
Use: TDNT-6:174,849 Verb
Heb Strong: H6004 H8085
1) to have faith in, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
2) by implication, to commit or entrust, i.e. to entrust your spiritual well-being to Christ
2a) to make a commitment (to trust)
2b) to put in trust with or place confidence in

- The second believeth is
Word: apeiqew
Pronounce: ap-i-theh'-o
Strongs Number: G544
Orig: from 545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely):--not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. G545
Use: TDNT-6:10,818 Verb
Heb Strong: H2308 H3808 H3808 H3985 H3988 H4603 H4775 H4784 H4843 H5637 H8280
1) not to allow one's self to be persuaded
1a) to refuse or withhold belief
1b) to refuse belief and obedience
2) not to comply with


There is a glaringly obvious reason why a different word is used. The first one is to put your faith in. The second one is to heed and obey what He says.
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You maintain your salvation?
 
Just_Jo

Just_Jo

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#76
May 29, 2020
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#76
eternally-gratefull said:
Amen,it’s deeper than mere belief, and it is different then mere unbelief,

the English language fails us here
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Language may fail us but the Spirit will not.
Studying in His quidance,the Spirit reveals to us as God wants us to see!
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#78
Nov 23, 2013
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#78
eternally-gratefull said:
I never had a true deep understanding of the word until I was awoken by the origional languages.
and I grew up old KJV only,
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As a guy trying to help you, it is my duty as a Christian to tell you that you are light years from being awake.
 
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