Is the “day of Christ” the day of the Rapture?

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The_Watchers_2017

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2022
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#61

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
7,343
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#62
It appears that you do not really understand the difference between the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ. But you are not alone. There are quite a few who are so confused about these fundamental doctrines that it is really quite amazing. How can the Pre-Tribulation Rapture be "fictitious" when Christ and the apostles taught it as a certainty?
Why promote a thoroughly confusing and contradictory doctrine like pretribulationism and then complain that people
are confused about it? Pretribulationism is most certainly NOT a fundamental doctrine. It is not a doctrine at all. Nor is it biblical.
It is a new philosophy of man.

The resurrection of the living and the dead is one incident encompassed within the process of The Second Coming.
The glory of Jesus is paramount in our Bible. Pretribulationism is a self-centred obsession which downgrades his glory.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,688
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#63
Pretribulationism is most certainly NOT a fundamental doctrine. It is not a doctrine at all. Nor is it biblical.
Not only is it is fundamental biblical doctrine, but it was pronounced by Christ Himself before His crucifixion. Since all the apostles were martyred, what He said in John 14:1-4 was meant for the Church, the Bride of Christ. Since John the Baptist had already proclaimed Christ as the Bridegroom, it was necessary for the Bride to be taken up to Heaven in order to proceed with the Marriage of the Lamb. At which point the Bride would become "the Lamb's Wife". So here is what Christ said:

JOHN 14: THE PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE PROPHESIED BY CHRIST

DO NOT CONNECT THIS WITH ANY TRIBULATION OR TROUBLE
Let not your heart be troubled:

JESUS IS GOD: BELIEVE IN HIM, AND WHAT HE HAS TO SAY
ye believe in God, believe also in me.

HEAVEN HAS COUNTLESS MANSIONS FOR THE SAINTS
In my Father's house are many mansions:


CHRIST WANTS YOU TO KNOW THAT THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE
if it were not so, I would have told you.


CHRIST IS PREPARING A PLACE IN HEAVEN FOR EVERY SAINT
I go to prepare a place for you.


THIS IS THE FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINE -- "I WILL COME AGAIN"
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself;


THE RAPTURE BRINGS THE SAINTS TO HEAVEN
(WHERE CHRIST IS PRESENTLY SEATED)

...that where I am, there ye may be also.

THE RETURN OF CHRIST TO HEAVEN WAS TAUGHT TO THE APOSTLES
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.


"I will come again and receive you unto myself" is spelled out in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Where it says "the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven" it also says "and so shall we ever be with the Lord". This corresponds exactly to John 14:1-4. This is the divine Bridegroom coming for His Bride. He does not send out angels but personally comes "Himself" (as prefigured in Hebrew weddings).
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#64
Angels being present does not preclude Jesus coming in person.
 
Dec 21, 2022
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#65
Really?

The 2 Witnesses being resurrected is your baloney Verse to claim a False Doctrine of Pre-Trib Rapture?

Talk about taking a Verse out of complete context and using it for something untrue.

Run along now, you fail!
Let us be kind one to another, tenderhearted, forbearing one with another. The enemy wants us to take sides one against another, but we all need encouragement and love. Let us not let the enemy win and score one for heaven, seeking to love to the end and see all edified and finish well! Hoping to encourage, I know I need it.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
21,841
11,882
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#66
Not only is it is fundamental biblical doctrine
As is common, you far overstate your position and in so doing, make a false statement.

You are welcome to believe in the pre-tribulation return, but it most certainly is NOT a fundamental biblical doctrine.

A fundamental doctrine is one that distinguishes a Christian from a non-Christian, a cultist, or a heretic, etc. Fundamental doctrines include the deity and humanity of Christ, His virgin birth, His sinless life, His atoning death, His resurrection, and His return.

Specific claims as to the nature and timing of His return are outside this set.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
19,688
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#67
You are welcome to believe in the pre-tribulation return, but it most certainly is NOT a fundamental biblical doctrine.
How can anyone claim that the return of Christ for the Church is not a fundamental doctrine? Is the resurrection of the saints a fundamental doctrine? Absolutely? Is the perfection and glorification of the saints a fundamental doctrine? Absolutely. So if you do not believe that, it you who has a problem, not the doctrines.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
1,508
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Midwest
#68
Is the perfection and glorification of the saints a fundamental doctrine? Absolutely.
Amen! Otherwise the Many Confused are stumbling around, in fear, trying in desperation to 'prepare' for 7 years of Great Tribulation [Darkness/Wrath],
with NO comfort or edification!

Instead of preparing for Judgment, in Heaven, while "looking, watching,
and patiently waiting for" our:

Blessed Hope, The LORD Jesus Christ, and Departure Into His "Day Of LIGHT!!"

(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25;
1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3;
1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)


"For God Hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain​
salvation [Deliverance from the 'Presence of sin' into glorification!]​
by our LORD Jesus Christ, Who Died for us, that, whether we​
wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. Wherefore​
Comfort yourselves together, and Edify one another, even​
as also ye do."​
Of course, IF they would even have an inkling of wanting to know about
the 'Salvation' of Deliverances "from The PENALTY and The Power of sin,"
then they could surely Have From God:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!

And then be "Comforted And Edified!" Amen?
 

The_Watchers_2017

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2022
1,966
504
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#69
Let us be kind one to another, tenderhearted, forbearing one with another. The enemy wants us to take sides one against another, but we all need encouragement and love. Let us not let the enemy win and score one for heaven, seeking to love to the end and see all edified and finish well! Hoping to encourage, I know I need it.
As much as I agree with your sentiment, the fact is the Verse used only describes the Two Witnesses. The way it is being used is for the Doctrine of the Pre-Trib Rapture is deceitful.

That means it's being purposefully misused and taken completely out of context. That's how Satan does. He twisted the meaning of what God said to Eve and now I am a Sinner.

I just don't see how one can be nice to someone doing virtually what Satan did.

Other than that, I completely agree!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
21,841
11,882
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#70
How can anyone claim that the return of Christ for the Church is not a fundamental doctrine? Is the resurrection of the saints a fundamental doctrine? Absolutely? Is the perfection and glorification of the saints a fundamental doctrine? Absolutely. So if you do not believe that, it you who has a problem, not the doctrines.
I see your attempt to twist my words. I'm not playing your ridiculous game. Get some integrity.
 

Saul-to-Paul

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2017
268
42
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#71
Really?

The 2 Witnesses being resurrected is your baloney Verse to claim a False Doctrine of Pre-Trib Rapture?

Talk about taking a Verse out of complete context and using it for something untrue.

Run along now, you fail!
Not pre-trib rapture. Pre-tribers claim no one see the rapture. That verse clearly shows the unsaved will see the rapture.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
6,904
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#74
Here is a simple way to make the distinction that is necessary:
THE DAY OF CHRIST = SALVATION { for born-again Christians }
THE DAY OF THE LORD = DAMNATION { for the wicked }
Yes - and, both commencing on the same day... :)
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#78
Amen! Otherwise the Many Confused are stumbling around, in fear, trying in desperation to 'prepare' for 7 years of Great Tribulation...
Many are confused, believing that there will be a 7-year Great Tribulation period - along with all of the other details that are usually closely associated with it - none of which are Biblical.

In no way whatsoever does Daniel 9:24-27 describe or refer to a 7-year Great Tribulation period - the idea that it does comes from a severe misinterpretation of those verses.
 
Aug 31, 2022
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#79
Many are confused, believing that there will be a 7-year Great Tribulation period - along with all of the other details that are usually closely associated with it - none of which are Biblical.

In no way whatsoever does Daniel 9:24-27 describe or refer to a 7-year Great Tribulation period - the idea that it does comes from a severe misinterpretation of those verses.

I am reminded of the saying, "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've made up my mind!"

The evidence for a pre -trib rapture and 7 year tribulation are there in Scripture.

Hey, if you choose not to believe it, that's your choice.