Israel or Palestine?

[zone]

Is America a Christian Nation?

CARL PEARLSTON

"While the Barlow translation quoted above has been printed in all official and unofficial treaty collections since 1797, most extraordinary (and wholly unexplained) is the fact that Article 11 of the Barlow translation, with its famous phrase 'the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion.' does not exist at all.

There is no Article 11. The Arabic text which is between Articles 10 and 12 is in form a letter, crude and flamboyant and withal quite unimportant, from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli. How that script came to be written and to be regarded, as in the Barlow translation, as Article 11 of the treaty as there written, is a mystery and seemingly must remain so. Nothing in the diplomatic correspondence of the time throws any light whatever on the point"

Is America a Christian Nation? < click

"Nothing in the diplomatic correspondence of the time throws any light whatever on the point"

(that's odd, because i found it)

a-a-a-a-nyways

 

[zone]

The video certainly does give an insight that one would not be taught in school

While the Jews played a part i want you to remember that the people doing the selling in Africa of those people are as bad as those doing the buying

No country is without its evil.

i don't think anyone would ever argue with that.
that's not what this is about.
at least, that's not why i posted.

i'm concerned about the wrong kind of historical revisionism.
well, not concerned anymore. amazed i guess.
and a little amused that it has held for so long.

 

[zone]

as far as God is concerned AD 70 has nothing to do with land disputes...

uh....??
really?
couldn't disagree more.

 

[zone]

well actually it seems that the jews you were talking about don't actually bother much with the torah...these groups barely even study it in detail after elementary school in fact...

what is going on is that they believe what the talmud says about them not getting the land back until the messiah comes...they are as far off from the kingdom of God as the zionists you oppose...

ashkenazi jews have a slight majority in israel...and about 80% of the jews worldwide are ashkenazim... and every study i have seen so far indicates that only about 12% of ashkenazi jews have any distinctively khazar contribution in their genes... in genetics that is considered 'high' in that it indicates a lot more intermarriage than you would typically expect between two unrelated populations...but not nearly enough to indicate that the khazars are actually the origin of the ashkenazi jews...

you should probably research the origin of the khazar theory...it was formulated based on the same kind of thoroughly debunked body measurement based racial 'science' that argued that africans were closer to apes than europeans...and it was adopted and popularized by the 'british israel' cult...

hey rachel...you might want to get up to speed.

sorry dear, not debunked. they tried to. maybe avoid the debunk debunkers...they're losing.


see, there are Israelis who are not religious, and do not have a vested interest in claiming Biblical Israelite heritage, okay?
they are the New Revisionists everybody's hatin' on and dismissing.

why, in the face of new evidence i do not know. what's wrong with the truth?
the jews at Khazaria.com are not ashamed of their heritage...why on earth are WE??


did you ever contact the jews at Khazaria.com and ask THEM why they are pedaling an antisemitic British-Israelism-level myth? please.


anyways....let's get this DNA stuff out here. since it's the big hairy deal, and everything seems to be riding on it - even though as Christians we are supposed to know salvation was NEVER about RACE. and unsaved jews are not saved.

seriously.

argue with these folks:



Eran Elhaik confirms Ariella Oppenheim's DNA study

"Our PC, biogeographical estimation, admixture, IBD, ASD, and uniparental analyses were consistent in depicting a Caucasus ancestry for European Jews. Our first analyses revealed tight genetic relationship of European Jews and Caucasus populations and pinpointed the biogeographical origin of European Jews to the south of Khazaria."

"Our findings thus reject the Rhineland Hypothesis and uphold the thesis that Eastern European Jews are Judeo-Khazars in origin."

"The most parsimonious explanation for our findings is that Eastern European Jews are of Judeo- Khazarian ancestry forged over many centuries in the Caucasus."

"The religious conversion of the Khazars encompassed most of the Empire’s citizens and subordinate tribes and lasted for the next 400 years (Polak 1951; Baron 1993) until the invasion of the Mongols (Polak 1951; Dinur 1961; Brook 2006). At the final collapse of their empire (13th century), many of the Judeo-Khazars fled to Eastern Europe and later migrated to Central Europe and admixed with the neighboring populations."

"The remarkable close proximity of European Jews and populations residing on the opposite ends of ancient Khazaria, such as Armenians, Georgians, Azerbaijani Jews, and Druze (Figures 3, S2- 3, 5), supports a common Near Eastern-Caucasus ancestry."

"The conclusions of the latest genome-wide studies (Atzmon et al. 2010; Behar et al. 2010) that European Jews had a single Middle Eastern origin are incomplete as neither study tested the Khazarian Hypothesis, to the extent done here. Finally, our findings confirm both oral narratives and the canonical Jewish literature describing the Khazar’s conversion to Judaism (e.g., “Sefer ha-Kabbalah” by Abraham ben Daud [1161 CE], and “The Khazars” by Rabbi Jehudah Halevi [1140 CE]) (Polak 1951; Koestler 1976)."

The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses < click

.....


why we can't just accept the overwhelming evidence is beyond me.

 

[zone]

The Jewish people's ultimate treasure hunt

In his search for Jewish ancestry, Eran Elhaik says he has discovered that some Ashkenazis originated in the Khazar empire, not the kingdom of Judah.

By Ofer Aderet | 09:12 28.12.12 | 64

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week...ple-s-ultimate-treasure-hunt.premium-1.490539 < click

 

[zone]

Elhaik's research is in line with earlier DNA research

By Ben Alofs 30 Dec 2012 03:41PM

In 2005 Ellen Levy-Coffman synthesised and assessed all the DNA evidence published so far, regarding the origins of the Jews, in her article "A MOSAIC OF PEOPLE: THE JEWISH STORY AND A REASSESSMENT OF THE DNA EVIDENCE" It is availabe online and makes very interesting reading. Here is a quote from her article: "But Jewish DNA presents a picture that is far more complex than just the Cohanim results. This picture is also far more diverse than what many genetic studies on Ashkenazi Jews would suggest. Instead, many of those studies have focused heavily on the Israelite DNA results, often downplaying the significant contribution of European and Khazarian ancestors.

The examination of only a single component of Jewish ancestry has resulted in an incomplete and, to a certain extent, distorted presentation of the Jewish genetic picture. Diversity was present from Jewish beginnings, when various Semitic and Mediterranean peoples came together to form the Israelites of long ago. The genetic picture was clearly enriched during the Diaspora, when Jews spread far and wide across Europe, attracting converts and intermarrying over time with their European hosts. The most recent DNA evidence indicates that from this blending of Middle Eastern and European ancestors, the diverse DNA ancestry of the Ashkenazi Jews emerged." Eran Elhaik's research findings is clearly in line with this.

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week...ple-s-ultimate-treasure-hunt.premium-1.490539 < click

 

[zone]

A MOSAIC OF PEOPLE: THE JEWISH STORY AND A REASSESSMENT OF THE DNA EVIDENCE

Ellen Levy-Coffman


The Jewish community has been the focus of extensive genetic study over the past decade in an attempt to better understand the origins of this group. In particular, those descended from Northwestern and Eastern European Jewish groups, known as “Ashkenazim,” have been the subject of numerous DNA studies examining both the Y chromosome and mitochondrial genetic evidence.

The focus of the present study is to analyze and reassess Ashkenazi results obtained by DNA researchers and synthesize them into a coherent picture of Jewish genetics, interweaving historical evidence in order to obtain a more accurate depiction of the complex genetic history of this group. Many of the DNA studies on Ashkenazim fail to adequately address the complexity of the genetic evidence, in particular, the significant genetic contribution of European and Central Asian peoples in the makeup of the contemporary Ashkenazi population. One important contribution to Ashkenazi DNA appears to have originated with the Khazars, an ancient people of probable Central Asian stock that lived in southern Russia during the 8th-12th centuries CE. Significant inflow of genes from European host populations over the centuries is also supported by the DNA evidence. The present study analyzes not only the Middle Eastern component of Ashkenazi ancestry, but also the genetic contribution from European and Central Asian sources that appear to have had an important impact on Ashkenazi ancestry.


Introduction

The word “Jew” has a mosaic of meanings: it defines a follower of the Jewish faith, a person who has at least one Jewish parent, or a member of a particular ethnic group (“Jewish”). There are many Jews who do not practice Judaism as a religion but define themselves as “Jewish” by virtue of their family’s heritage and identification with the culture and history of the Jewish people.

Thus, Judaism is a mosaic of culture, religion, ethnicity, and for some, a way of life. It is an identity that is not quite a nationality, but neither is it a simple ethnic or cultural phenomenon either. This unusual combination of characteristics, coupled with Jewish resistance over the centuries to assimilation and strong adherence to their religious faith, has contributed to the intense feelings of curiosity, hatred, admiration, attraction and hostility by the rest of the world.

A Reassessment of the Jewish DNA Evidence < click


so can move forward and accept what many Jewish people are recognizing - and NOT having an issue with?
or are we going to say they are antisemitic liars?

anyways....

 

[zone]

i think it could just as easily be something more like this..."I will no longer drive out before them any of the nations Joshua left when he died."

sometimes God punishes by -not- doing something...

rachel...Jesus wept over Jerusalem and made the Divine decree.

not one stone upon another.

was He saying it like "Oh i hope it doesn't happen when I remove my protection?"

seriously?

the very same decree God foretold in Daniel...He knows the end from the Beginning!

what up rachel?

 

[zone]

ashkenazi is an ethnicity...there are ashkenazim in practically all of the jewish denominations i listed...and half of the antizionist haredi jews are ashkenazi...

the haredi are playing their role rachel.
they've got all the bases covered, that's all.

there's that sociologists slippery term: "ethnicity". it's either actual racial heritage back to Jacob or it isn't.
that's the claim. and its either going to stand or fall.

millions and millions are dying over it and we have got to take this seriously - they do!

what i am pointing out is that the vast majority of the antizionist jews that you keep mistakenly calling 'torah observant' -don't- actually bother much with the torah...their antizionism is in fact a direct result of their -rejection- of christ who is spoken of in the torah...

so....zionists are a result of not rejecting Christ?
come on!

the vast majority of antizionist jews are anti zionist because they believe that they cannot return to the land until the messiah comes...and the messiah they are waiting for is obviously not jesus....

the haredi are the only religious anti-zionist jews and they're playing their role...

anti-zionist secular jews have all kinds of reasons for being against the State of Israel.
i read their stuff DAILY. do you?

and MOST of the jewish pro-palestinian activists are gatekeepers! easily proven.

why would non-jews hand over control of the leadership for their own causes to jewish owned and controlled NGOs and such?

cam on-n-n-n-n....it's all a big scam.

there are some genuine activists. and lots who just want out of it all....but you don't appear to actually be really watching and looking at this thing rachel.

you're coming at it from a particular perspective, which i understand, but this is broad and wide and very little is as it actually appears to be.

and it comes back to what lies at the heart of Talmudic Judaism - continual revolution until there is a Jewish Kingdom on earth.

how ANYONE can deny is outrageous! its WRITTEN! - what do you think Marxism was really for?

for crying out loud half of evangelicalism is helping make it happen!! LOL.

like i said...they are just as deceived and far from the kingdom of God as the zionist jews who reject christ...

true.
but we have the Gospel which is the power of God unto salvation for them.

Lord, please stop the christian zionists and replace them with simple missionaries.

by khazar theory i meant the theory that the khazars are the origin of the modern ashkenazi jews...the british israelist cult seized on this theory...because obviously in order for the british to be israel they would have to do away with the identity of the ashkenazim as israelites... basically the british israel cult are the only ones who were keeping the khazar theory alive until the antizionists got hold of it...in other words if you believe in the khazar theory you have a cult to thank for it...

i tend to be especially skeptical of theories that originated in a cult or were primarily propagated by a cult...in logic this may be a fallacy...but in spiritual study we know that bad trees don't produce good fruit...

well, you're not logged on, i've already posted updated evidence from Israeli scientists.
check it out and catch up.
we have to move forward.

we've got Gog and Magog to examine.
we may be a little short on time.

 

[1still_waters]

i think it could just as easily be something more like this..."I will no longer drive out before them any of the nations Joshua left when he died."

sometimes God punishes by -not- doing something...

Either way, God's hand and will, and intent is in it.
You can't say God isn't in it, because he's just letting it happen.
It's happening due to something he did.
The something he did?
He took away his protection.<--Possibly.

Imagine there is a village at the bottom of a mountain.
There is a really big snowball at the top of the mountain that could crush the village.
But God is holding that snowball on the condition they don't break covenant.
They break covenant.
God doesn't push the snowball,but he let's it go.

You going to say that snowball isn't directly acted upon by God because he let it go instead of pushed it?

You're splittin hairs that can't really be split.

 

[zone]

Is that a joke? Ahmadinejad, for example, considers it his duty to create a state of global chaos and misery unprecedented in human history, in order to provide the proper environment to usher in the 12th Imam or Mahdi. He considers it his job to start WW3 without caring a whit about the fate of himself or his people or anybody else.
12th imam - Bing[

pssst...pete - it's YOUR country in league with Israel that's doing all the damage, man.
wake up and smell the THERMITE.

lol

 

[zone]

Either way, God's hand and will, and intent is in it.
You can't say God isn't in it, because he's just letting it happen.
It's happening due to something he did.
The something he did?
He took away his protection.<--Possibly.

Imagine there is a village at the bottom of a mountain.
There is a really big snowball at the top of the mountain that could crush the village.
But God is holding that snowball on the condition they don't break covenant.
They break covenant.
God doesn't push the snowball,but he let's it go.

You going to say that snowball isn't directly acted upon by God because he let it go instead of pushed it?

You're splittin hairs that can't really be split.

Revelation 17:17
15And the angelc said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. 16And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, 17for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

 

[wdeaton65]

I have been reading and watching these threads and all the ideas that people talk about when it comes to Jerusalem and Israel.
I will say this and you can do what you want with it.

If you guys would just take five minutes and look up what ZONE and others are talking about. The amount of work it takes to find these things out and sift through all the lies is staggering. Instead of just sticking your HEADS in the sand just look it up please ZONE and some others have done the work for you just point and click I beg you.
You have inherited lies Jer 16;19-21 this lines up with Rev. 12;9 the enemys time is short. Look those up please. If you think and believe that zionism and special people will all of the sudden just get it YOU are taking MT 23;37-39 out of contex and content not to mention you dont know the culture. To deny this fact is to say that Yeshua is not telling the truth in Rev 12;9 and Jer 16;19-21. Everybody has got to come through the same gate Yeshua the CROSS!

Why cant you see this, at least debate fairly and confirm with the scriptures please. No one has the right to add or subract from the word of GOD not even the zionist rabbis who follow the talmud not the Torah.

This is just an example.
Here is an interesting picture given to me it helps me understand a little better.
Lets say you could go back in time to a slave ship. You get on board and you have the key to set these slaves free.
The problem is the slaves have been taught that the chains are for there protection so they dont drown.
What would you do to convince them you were trying to help.

I can tell you first hand what zionist jews think of christian zionists!!!!!!!! You would not like the truth. Guys like john hagee and perry stone and all the rest are puppets. Do you think the god of this world would allow some one to give you truth over his ownership of the networks. A kingdom divided an all you know the scriptures. That makes no sense does it.
You do not judge your fruit by how much money you have or how many seats are in your church.

How much blood do you require before you stand up and say something.
I love you brothers and sisters. This question is for all of you.
What corner stone will you use for the third temple. Please explain with scripture thank you.

Keep this in mind GOD destroyed the temple 40 years latter just like HE said HE would. Blessings

 

[zone]

Is that a joke? Ahmadinejad, for example, considers it his duty to create a state of global chaos and misery unprecedented in human history, in order to provide the proper environment to usher in the 12th Imam or Mahdi. He considers it his job to start WW3 without caring a whit about the fate of himself or his people or anybody else.
12th imam - Bing[

hey pete....you skipped right over the subject - why don't JEWS believe in Jesus Christ, and went slammin on Iran.

how about you address this:

Jeremiah 31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them bay the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1. Are the people of Jacob following Gods law and his commands? We can easily say no thus God has not written in on their hearts and their will)
2. Does the people of Isreal live in a time in which they do not have to teach their neighbor about God (and Christ who died for them) we can easily say no.

has any of this happened in any time in history since the babylonian captivity? the answer is no.

thus it must be yet in the future (as romans 11 even says it will be)

do you agree with this assessment that Jeremiah 31 was not fulfilled at the First Advent and Pentecost?

 

[zone]

If you think and believe that zionism and special people will all of the sudden just get it YOU are taking MT 23;37-39 out of contex and content not to mention you dont know the culture.

william, i liked the part about the slave thinking the chains were for his protection.

do you feel comfortable talking about that part specifically?

the cultural reasons it's so hard for jews to get free?

that would be really helpful for those who don't know.

zone.

 

[wdeaton65]

ZONE and all,
These are the chains that were forged so long ago and are still being worn today. I will never have anything to do with them sgain. They teach you not to eat milk and beef together. How could I have been so stupid, I truely was once blind but now I see.

I will try to explain,
Here is the thing Yeshua gives us a lot of insight into the time and the culture.
Lets look at Mt.15;1-20 Yeshua is telling us about the takanah and hamasim Traditions and comandments of men pharasees scibes and sadducees. This is about adding and subtracting from the word of GOD. These changes were terrible and are still being taught today at every synagogue. Today they are called the talmud you have a babylonian and a jerusalem talmud at most synagogues today not to mention all the other writtings it would take to much space LOL.

These traditions to a jew are beaten into you starting as a small child to an adult. It never stops you are taught the other races that means YOU are dogs not even worthy of of crumbs does that not ring a bell Mt 15;26-28 has been taught totaly with out contex Yeshua wasnt calling anyone there a wild dog that is another teaching all together. Back to the issue sorry.
Most jews dont fell this way about other people but those are the teachings of all zionists and the people of power that is just how it works I didnt make the rules I am just explaining them to you.

You dont want to here this but the reason for us jews being kicked out of so many countries in the past is the very teaching and perversions taught in the talmud and other teachings. It teaches that we are to take over everything politics, banking, information and religion all choke points of a society. This dosent even cover the kabalistic satanic which Solomn new all to well and all the rabbis know this to be true. Pleases note the hexagram on the flag of Israel every rabbi knows David was no idol worshiper but Solomn well that is a different story.

Yeshua new all about these things. Paul taught against them as well. I could write all day following the Messiah as HE destroyed these teachings with the truth HIS word.

One more thing, John 2;6-7 why do you think there are 6 clay pots and why do you think they filled them to the brim read it. The culture new what the pharasees used these 6 clay pots for. The kosher rabbis to this day know what that is all about why dont you. More to the point why dosent your paid professional pastors know. Yeshua slammed the pharasees turning that water into wine real wine not grape juice and gave it away with no charge.

I could go on and on Yeshua did not miss a single point GOD new they would have there traditions and comandments of men and Yeshua crushed them all!!!!!!!!!!!

It is so great to tell people the truth I would never sell a single truth for any amount of money I will give it away for free.
When you set out to try and prove anything I just wrote is wrong you will then find it is true and the HOLY SPIRIT will lead you to more truth.
Love you brothers and sisters ps I WILL NEVER PUT THOSE CHAINS ON AGAIN I AM FREE THANK YOU YESHUA

 

[zone]

love you brother william
going to have a cry now
and to pray for you
and for all the jewish kids
so they can be free too.

i give thanks for you
will come back later
to talk to you
some more.

i'm glad you are here.

all Grace and Blessings to you and yours
in Jesus Christ Our Lord
zone

 

[Drett]

They say music soothes the savage beast. Maybe this will soften some hearts .. then again maybe not.

[video=youtube;foSbqLi6U10]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSbqLi6U10[/video]

 

[crossnote]

The title of this thread is 'Israel or Palestine'. I vote. Israel, that is what God named the land. Palestine is a Roman hybrid name.

 

[Drett]

So I guess the name of Israel can remain and the Palestinians live there rather than the Europeans that are currently there ?