Keep The Commandments

[eternally-gratefull]

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
Jas 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Jas 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

1. Can someone be saved apart from faith?
2. Does not some one who claims to have faith, but has NO work show they had no faith? (which is exactly what james is saying?
3. Is not a dead faith mere belief? And is not james saying mere belief will not save you. proven by the fact there is no works. Hearers of the word NOT DOERS..

Why do people want to use this passage to prove a works based salvation. when james clearly says, If you CLAIM you have faith, but have ZERO works.. do yu really have faith, or just mere belief?? And mere belief will not save you!

True faith will produce true works.. it is not the works that save, it is the faith which saves. out of this salvation and new life WILL COME WORKS (eph 2: 10)

James did not contradict paul, (saved by faith apart from works) he complimented exactly what Paul said. Only James spoke to a different audience,, so he phrased it different.

Pau spoke to the legalist works people. James spoke to the licentious believe only crowd.

Yet they both say the same thing.

True faith will produce works.

Have no works. Faith is dead.. no faith, no salvation!

 

[PennEd]

Is sin a must do,, or is sin a choice? I'm trying to understand what you think about sin. I believe we all have made the choice to sin. I do NOT believe we have no choice but to sin. If you believe we must sin, then you believe contrary to what the scriptures teach.

"Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will recieve the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him." ( James 1:12 )

The above scripture denotes a refusal to sin while being tempted!

Each of us are tempted:

"But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed." ( James 1:14 )

"....the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations......" ( 2 Peter 2:9 )

Sin is a choice.. and if we refuse to sin,, the devil will surely hate us even more,

"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Lament and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up." (James 4:7,8,9,10 )

If none of us can keep the law,, why didn't Daniel's friends bow down and worship the gold image that Nebuchadnezzar
made? Instead, they refused to sin,, and were tossed into a fiery furnace!!!! They would rather die than to sin,,isn't that obvious to you?

At any rate, have a good day.

Of course sin is a choice. The problem is we have ALL chosen it at some time in our life. THIS is what the Word says about breaking the[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Law:


James 2:10 [/FONT]For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


So either YOU are guilty of breaking ALL of the Law, or you are the only sinless person in history outside of our Lord.

 

[PennEd]

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
Jas 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Jas 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Where did I say that Faith without works is life? BUT the works are EVIDENCE of the faith NOT the requirement for salvation.

Ephesians 2 7-9[SUP]7 [/SUP]in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where did I say that Faith without works is life? BUT the works are EVIDENCE of the faith NOT the requirement for salvation.

Ephesians 2 7-9[SUP]7 [/SUP]in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST

and to make it complete. And agree with james.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we (those who have been saved by faith) are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Those saved by true faith WILL work. Those who have mere belief (thus no salvation) will not..

 

[TigerScent777]

1. Can someone be saved apart from faith?
2. Does not some one who claims to have faith, but has NO work show they had no faith? (which is exactly what james is saying?
3. Is not a dead faith mere belief? And is not james saying mere belief will not save you. proven by the fact there is no works. Hearers of the word NOT DOERS..

Why do people want to use this passage to prove a works based salvation. when james clearly says, If you CLAIM you have faith, but have ZERO works.. do yu really have faith, or just mere belief?? And mere belief will not save you!

True faith will produce true works.. it is not the works that save, it is the faith which saves. out of this salvation and new life WILL COME WORKS (eph 2: 10)

James did not contradict paul, (saved by faith apart from works) he complimented exactly what Paul said. Only James spoke to a different audience,, so he phrased it different.

Pau spoke to the legalist works people. James spoke to the licentious believe only crowd.

Yet they both say the same thing.

True faith will produce works.

Have no works. Faith is dead.. no faith, no salvation!

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

...aren't you promoting 'lawlessness' ?!?!

 

[TigerScent777]

Where did I say that Faith without works is life? BUT the works are EVIDENCE of the faith NOT the requirement for salvation.

Ephesians 2 7-9[SUP]7 [/SUP]in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST

...works is not the 'means' to salvation, that is out of context ... but obedience is part of it after Grace...

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

...aren't you promoting 'lawlessness' ?!?! --- stating we are not 'under' Gods laws?

 

[john832]

...works is not the 'means' to salvation, that is out of context ... but obedience is part of it after Grace...

Exactly! Grace is not bestowed on any and everyone regardless of their actions (read obedience here). Grace bestowed on all is universal salvation and if anyone believes that, we are not only on different pages in the book, we are on different galaxies. We have no common ground. But to further this thought about faith and obedience required for grace...

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Grace and who receives the Spirit?

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

 

[notuptome]

Keep the commandments but give me Jesus. Almost sings.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

...aren't you promoting 'lawlessness' ?!?!

How can I be promoting lawlessness? Those who have truely repented to true faith WILL WORK. Will show a changed life. Will want to live for God. That is not promting lawlessness. That is promoting the love and grace of God.

The passage you use speaks of those who like you are trying to work to earn your salvation. (thus all the works they have done) What does Jesus tell them?? Depart. I NEVER KNEW YOU.

he is not going to say this to the people James spoke of. they never did these works. So he could not be talking to them. he is talking to those working to earn salvation, and rejecting his FREE gift of eternal life.. He calls them sinners. They are just as guilty as the licentious people who have easy beleivism, Say a little pray and your saved and can live how you want.

Both are evil, and both come from satan. NOT GOD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly! Grace is not bestowed on any and everyone regardless of their actions (read obedience here). Grace bestowed on all is universal salvation and if anyone believes that, we are not only on different pages in the book, we are on different galaxies. We have no common ground. But to further this thought about faith and obedience required for grace...

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Grace and who receives the Spirit?

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Grace is given to all. not all will recieve.

The mere fact you are here and not obliterated into eternity because of your sin and rebellion and given the change to repent, is by the grace of God.

 

[JaumeJ]

If anyone who thinks he believes were to meditate on why the enemy, Satan, is also referred to as the lawless one, perhaps that person would have a better understanding of just who is lawful and who is not. Having the grace by the shed Blood of Yeshua is no excuse to ignore the Commandments of Yahweh.

Are you lawful without obeying? Please, how is this possible? Grace is not license, and to think that is a transgression, a sin.

 

[JaumeJ]

Who believes that obeying the Ten Commandments is not a product of Love?

Do you realize how much our Savior suffered so that we would know they are good? The fear of Yahweh, God, is the beginning of wisdom.

It is respect of the possibility of a Maker that gives us the desire to know Him. Of course when our desire to know our Maker is there, He draws us to Yeshua, Jesus.

Once we know our Salvation and how it came about, out of love, because He loved us first, our heart's desire is to please Him.

To say that following His example is being legalistic and without love is a cruel sham. The Commandments are an expression of love when obeyed. Start now if you think you have not been obeying them, Jesus did!

 

[john832]

Keep the commandments but give me Jesus. Almost sings.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

OK, here He is...

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[john832]

Grace is given to all. not all will recieve.

The mere fact you are here and not obliterated into eternity because of your sin and rebellion and given the change to repent, is by the grace of God.

Got a scripture? You have a lot of one liners that are never backed up by sound exegesis.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Got a scripture? You have a lot of one liners that are never backed up by sound exegesis.

Sound exegesis. You evidently do not even know what the means.

Just like you do not know what true grace is. You deserve not to live 1 second past your first sin. You deserve after that sin never to be given the chance to repent and come to christ. All those things are given by grace.

Grace does not mean only you are saved, The mere fact you have the ability to be saved and live to do it is by grace.

If you did not interpret scripture and words from your own viewpoint, you would see this.

 

[john832]

Sound exegesis. You evidently do not even know what the means.

Just like you do not know what true grace is. You deserve not to live 1 second past your first sin. You deserve after that sin never to be given the chance to repent and come to christ. All those things are given by grace.

Grace does not mean only you are saved, The mere fact you have the ability to be saved and live to do it is by grace.

If you did not interpret scripture and words from your own viewpoint, you would see this.

This has degenerated to a point that I no longer wish to participate. I apologize for the not so healthy attitude I have exhibited. I wish you a good day.

 

[notuptome]

OK, here He is...

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Why stop short? You need to consider the rest of the lesson Jesus is teaching. If thou wilt be perfect go and sell all thou hast and give to the poor...the young man went away sorrowful. Jesus taught that the demands of the law were more than the man could perform. You really need to deal with verses 21 & 22. Then you are ready for verse 26. Impossible with men possible with God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why stop short? You need to consider the rest of the lesson Jesus is teaching. If thou wilt be perfect go and sell all thou hast and give to the poor...the young man went away sorrowful. Jesus taught that the demands of the law were more than the man could perform. You really need to deal with verses 21 & 22. Then you are ready for verse 26. Impossible with men possible with God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Some people just do not want to see it. They want to see themselves as righteous people, who somehow please God by being good. In doing so. they can;t see their own sinfull lives, and willfull sin they commit on a daily basis. just because it is not one of the "evil" sins they always think of.

 

[danschance]

There is a moral aspect to the law and a ritual aspect of the law. Of course we are to still obey the moral aspect. The ritual aspect has been done away with. For example, we are no longer required to be circumcised, sacrifice animals, nail a mezuzah on our door posts, wear a , a tallit and many other things.

One important aspect of this ritual law that we no longer have to obey is ritually clean food. We are now free to eat any food. We no longer have to observe the jewish festivals and we no longer have to obey the Sabbath.

"Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." (Col 2:14-16)

The ritual laws were done away with by God himself. He told Peter to eat food forbidden by the ritual laws and we see why God did this. Gentiles eat all sorts of foods, were accepting the gospel. No doubt the ritual jewish laws would of been a barrier to spreading the Good News.

10But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance;11and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground,12and there were in it all kinds offour-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air.13A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!”14But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.”15Again a voicecame to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, nolonger consider unholy.”16This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.

Soon some Jews tried to reinstate the ritual laws. They were called the Judaizers. They wanted the gentiles to be circumcised. Today we still have some "neo-judaizers" who attempt to bring back some of this ritual law. They tell us we must obey the Sabbath and eat certain foods. They are the Seventh Day Adventist cult who follow a false prophet who suffered brain damage from a rock thrown to her head. It is well known that temporal brain damage can trigger visions. She does not pass the test of a true prophet. The majority of her writings (which the SDA considers equal to scripture) was plagiarized.

If you want to keep the Sabbath, fine by me. If you want to abstain from certain foods, fine by me. I myself have a mezuzah nailed on my front door post. However, it is wrong to preach a judaizers message as it violates scripture.

 

[Laodicea]

Romans 2:13 KJV
(13) (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.