Martin Luther Invented the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ" Doctrine

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The issue is not the heart or what the heart thinks.

The issue is what God says is true.

If the heart thinks it is righteous and is ok with God, and those thoughts are nbot true (the person is not saved and he is not righteous)

God will not say, Well your intentions were ok, Your heart said you were good so I will let you get a free pass. COme into heaven anyway.

God will say you should not have trusted your heart, I told you in my word that you should not rely on your heart, that the thoughts were wicked and evil. Yet you did it anyway,

The end result will be hell..
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Then God should go back and apologize to Cain???????? God said he had the ability to rule over that man of sin seeking to rise up within his members..Jesus said go and sin no more...He is the LOGOS of God. COMPLETELY LOGICAL, would He command someone to do what they are not able to? Use some common sense, God gave it to you for the purpose of seeking Him...Jesus didn't say go and sin some more, because ye are unable to do otherwise...

But Jesus was dealing with one known sin about which He was saying 'go and sin no more.' He was not speaking about ANY sin.
 
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willybob

Guest
I think there is a flawed understanding as to what righteousness actually is’ (the manifest reality of righteousness through reason of obedience from heart purity). God spoke through the prophet Ezekiel and declared that Daniel, Job, and Noah were delivered by God because of their own righteousness, (what they chose to do via freewill obedience to God ), of which Solomon said was our whole purpose in life, Ecl. 12-13, and which Paul said is our reasonable service, Romans 12-1.., and not what somebody else did for them. Yes, most assuredly God did the delivering, but it was because of the worthiness of those three men that He deliver them in times of tribulational distress.

God said Cain could have been accepted by choosing to do that which is good that welled up within his heart, however his heart became of a dry cistern that could only produce sand rather than springing forth with fountains of living water (allowing the righteous embedded influence of God’s Spirit to flow through him producing/manifesting the good fruit of righteousness. Judah as a nation had become like Cain, in that God speaking through the righteous prophet Jeremiah in chapter 2 verse 13, said His people had committed 2 factions of evil,(the iniquity of pride and greed), and had forsaken HIM the fountains of living water (the spirit of antichrist), and hewed themselves out cisterns (the dry sand of religion, very similar to the clergy laity Institutionalised Christianity of today) cisterns that cannot hold living water, “ie” the false prophet, Jeremiah 2-13…These 2 beasts of Revelation, 1) the spirit of antichrist, and 2) the false profit that persuades the whole world back to the 1st beast of pride, Leviathan/Humanism. The total rejection of God manifest within His people, who have turned away and worship the beast of their own imagination desiring it to be that of God. “and the whole world wondered after the beast and his image

The increase of the Spirit according to righteousness
Righteousness is what we do according to the influence of the Spirit written upon our hearts and minds, of which this dynamic was greatly increased in the dispensation of grace (the empowerment of the Spirit) at Pentecost because Jesus, a stronger One, had previously bound the strong man and his goods. What were Satan’s goods? Sin…..Bound in that he could no longer deceive the nations of Gentile-multitudes who chose to seek after God, thus a greater Spirit of reason and awareness was dispensed….and of course the same was true of the believing Jews seeking after God also..

And interesting note; approximately 19 out of every 20 people since Noah and Gen 8 have been born in the post cross AD era. Approximately 6 billion before the cross, and 120 billion after the cross, according to historical almanac speculations. Not exact numbers by any means, but approximate evaluations determined by gathered information. About 95% of the world’s population since the flood have been born into the gospel age of greater enlightenment upon the earth. And what is also interesting is that about 75% since the English printed bibles of the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century, or about 90 billion people.

Now back to the subject of righteousness and the increase of the Spirit
God’s influence of righteousness is actually programed in us at birth. Unlike the animal beast creatures, we were made in His image for the purpose of seeking after Him, in that we might freely choose to love Him and our neighbour. This is the logical light of conscience reasoning that was put into EVERY MAN/WOMAN, or as the apostle John so accurately said that Yeshua was the “True Light that lighteth everyman that commeth into the world”. That light was even increased in the post-cross era via the Spirit of grace convicting the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement to come, John 16-8.

The Romans 1:18-20 light of reasoning is imported into every man/women’s hard drive. The natural ability to do that which is good by nature of reason, Romans 2-14,15. Thus by following this Supernatural Light of conscience, man by nature can do well/good, and seek after the one true God, such as Abraham did, or as Cornelius did. Both of which were surrounded by pagans worshipping other gods, yet still by the light of reason manifest in them, (Romans 1-19,20) they chose of their own freewill to submit/yield to the Spirit, and do the righteousness of God. Those that choose not to obey suppress the truth in unrighteousness that has been made known to them, (Romans 1-18).

NOTE: Joshua implies that Abraham was about the only one in his day not following after false gods..This is why God chose him and called him out of the Or of Chaldees in Gen 12..And by the same reason did Noah find grace in the eyes of the Lord.

In the case of Cornelius, he was a man that FEARED God, of which Solomon said, is the beginning of wisdom, and he was a devout man “eusebēs”), (devoted to godliness “eusebēs”), by doing that which is good to his neighbour, and praying to God ALWAYS, Acts 10. Keep in mind also that God hears not the prayers of proud sinners. Therefore Cornelius was humble, and obedient to the light of conscience that he possessed (Nothing more, nothing less), but only the measure of light that he was given at the time; hence God heard his prayers, even so much so in that doing such good works, he became pleasing to God, even to the extent that his good deeds of righteousness had come up as a memorial before God, and thus said by God Himself to be a devout man (righteous by justification) through his freewill choice to love God and his neighbour. As he, even a Gentile was by nature loving God and his neighbour with all he had. Being and obedient servant to God, he obeyed the angelic messenger of God, and called for Peter who was in Joppa..Take notice that Peter did not bring the message of repentance to Cornelius. Why? Because he, like Lydia, was already fearing, worshiping, and obeying God to the extent of the knowledge they possessed, therefore they both gladly received and increase of the Spirit as their hearts were made open to the gospel, thus became followers of the Messiah when they heard the good news of the gospel. Faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word, therefore both added to their already existing faith the good news of the kingdom. This is proof that man, by his own God given light within himself, can by his own volition, seek out the one true God. he may not know much but He is not in rebellion to the amount of Light that he has been endowed with. And of course to whosoever much is given much is required..

We see Paul describing the Gentiles in that he said; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them, (the natural light of conscience)... How can this be? Because Christ is the Light that lighteth the conscience awareness of everyman that comes into the world, John 1-9. And God is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him, Hebrews 6-6.Therefore He rewarded and blessed both Cornelius and Lydia richly. This is manifest righteousness..
Whereas positional righteousness is a virtual reality that is emotionally manufactured in the imaginative state of the mind that is forced to work overtime producing that which gratifies the desires of the heart centered around self, (self-gratification)…

Remember, both Cornelius and Lydia were of the opposite of self-gratification. This self-gratification on a clerical layer has cleverly convinced the multitudes (sea of humanity, the nations born of the seed of Shem Ham. and Japeth) of the flawed concept of Penal Substitution Magic, (the Disney make believe version of righteousness). An illusion created from the premise of rebellion against God formed in the minds of religious lawyers, or a virtual reality of righteousness, of which John called “the image of the beast”, “spirit of antichrist”, or as Paul termed it “the mystery of iniquity”. Man worships what He thinks is a God that accepts an approves of his beastly like lusts of the flesh, “ie” that man of sin” of the which have the mark of the beast written on their forehead (their evil thoughts), and written on their hands (their evil deeds). This mark is not forced upon them, but rather received gladly via a freewill choice to follow after the beastly lusts of the flesh, (brute beasts, described by Pater & Jude), whose god is their belly….
 
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willybob

Guest
But Jesus was dealing with one known sin about which He was saying 'go and sin no more.' He was not speaking about ANY sin.
In other words the woman could go and steal and that was to be expected of her???
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I heard a teacher once say legalism and liscentiousness was really no different. The root core for both was pride. At first I was to proud to agree.. I am like no way, One preaches works, one preaches lack of works.

Then the truth hit me, and I understood..

Thge liscentiousness person in pride says no one will tell him what to do. He says a prayer thinks he is saved, and can do what he wants.

The legalist basically says the same thing,. Only in less perceptive way, the difference is, they both think they say a prayer and they are saved,, Yet the legalist thinks as long as he does not commit the pet sin, he is ok,, the rest of his or her sins do not matter.

They both have made themselves God.. The both are stuck in pride. They both have refused to repent. And yet they attack each other viciously..

Us grace people get stuck in the middle. Thge licentious call us legalists, because we confront them on their sin issues,,. The legalist calls us liscentiousness sin lovers.. Because we try to show how works will not save us, and we are all guilty ands fall short.. (Like the liscentiousness, they refuse to acknowledge their own sin is bad.. )
if I could like this post 100 times, I would. very well said. those caught in the middle get attacked by both sides, and neither side can see that we are not their enemy.
 
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I heard a teacher once say legalism and liscentiousness was really no different. The root core for both was pride. At first I was to proud to agree.. I am like no way, One preaches works, one preaches lack of works.

Then the truth hit me, and I understood..

Thge liscentiousness person in pride says no one will tell him what to do. He says a prayer thinks he is saved, and can do what he wants.

The legalist basically says the same thing,. Only in less perceptive way, the difference is, they both think they say a prayer and they are saved,, Yet the legalist thinks as long as he does not commit the pet sin, he is ok,, the rest of his or her sins do not matter.

They both have made themselves God.. The both are stuck in pride. They both have refused to repent. And yet they attack each other viciously..

Us grace people get stuck in the middle. Thge licentious call us legalists, because we confront them on their sin issues,,. The legalist calls us liscentiousness sin lovers.. Because we try to show how works will not save us, and we are all guilty ands fall short.. (Like the liscentiousness, they refuse to acknowledge their own sin is bad.. )
You are not grace folks at all, because you refuse to come into full knowledge of what Grace does for you, in terms of, identity in Christ Jesus.....Most if not all of you say and proudly proclaim you are a SINNER saved by grace...if you accept Jesus as your personal savior and in him alone, his GRACE and TRUTH it will never call you SINNER....It identifies you as brother, sister, son, daughter, heir.....you do not work for this identity, it is give to you free and not by any works or self righteousness on your own doing....by claiming the title of SINNER ater coming to Jesus and accepting what he did for you alone, you are still self-righteous and only mental assent to what Jesus and his grace and truth did for you...


So Righteousness-conscious folks get stuck between all 3 of these, the lisentious, the legalist and the graceist.....
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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In other words the woman could go and steal and that was to be expected of her???
He was not dealing with stealing. Only a fool would suggest that, or someone trying to be awkward. Which are you? . The fact that He said 'do not commit a particular sin lest a worse thing befall her' does not mean that He was generally concerned with only one sin, only that in her case it was the major sin that she had committed.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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You are not grace folks at all, because you refuse to come into full knowledge of what Grace does for you, in terms of, identity in Christ Jesus.....Most if not all of you say and proudly proclaim you are a SINNER saved by grace...if you accept Jesus as your personal savior and in him alone, his GRACE and TRUTH it will never call you SINNER....It identifies you as brother, sister, son, daughter, heir.....you do not work for this identity, it is give to you free and not by any works or self righteousness on your own doing....by claiming the title of SINNER ater coming to Jesus and accepting what he did for you alone, you are still self-righteous and only mental assent to what Jesus and his grace and truth did for you...
Poor old Paul, wrong again - 1 tim 1.15. You should listen to truthhurts. He knows (or thinks he does).


So Righteousness-conscious folks get stuck between all 3 of these, the lisentious, the legalist and the graceist.....
Yep they are the self righteous.
 
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He was not dealing with stealing. Only a fool would suggest that, or someone trying to be awkward. Which are you? . The fact that He said 'do not commit a particular sin lest a worse thing befall her' does not mean that He was generally concerned with only one sin, only that in her case it was the major sin that she had committed.
The woman needed grace and Jesus gave it to her, that is only one part of the story...the other part of the Story was how Jesus exposed the SIN and Hypocrisy of the Pharisees, who actually set her up and only using her to try to discredit Jesus himself....

You gloat about having been educated by one of the best Bible Colleges in England...and got honors....maybe you ought to give the honor back and ask for a refund...

The real story of the woman caught in Adultery is not about the woman/s sin, it was about exposing the corrupt system of religion that condemned the woman falsely and broke the Levitical and Mosaic Law doing so....If you read the Laws in Leviticus and Numbers regarding adultery and the test of Adultery you would understand that the pharisees were only using the woman to bait and trap Jesus and he schooled them....He fulfilled Jeremiah 17.13 right in front of them....which is why they dropped their stones and left...

*hint* the man the woman committed Adultery was not with her....had she been caught in the VERY act of adultery, the Priests would have had to bring the male with them and then stone them both....they needed no justification to do that...that was the Law, that both caught in adultery should be stoned.....only communicated false teaching, based on personal opinion, suggests this woman was Mary Magdalene or a prostitute.....

By saying he did not condemn her and go and sin no more, he was telling her what we all need to know and understand, since she had sinned...there is no condemnation in me alone and I give your choice to commit or not commit sin back.....now go and SIN no more...

The story is one about Grace saving us, upholding and defending the weak, and exposing religion and the lengths religion will go to steal, kill and destroy anything about or of Jesus...
 
Feb 28, 2016
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why is it that so many seem to always go for the 'throat' instead of the 'heart'?

do some not even 'realize it'?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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God will say you should not have trusted your heart, I told you in my word that you should not rely on your heart, that the thoughts were wicked and evil. Yet you did it anyway,

The end result will be hell..
You guys do not know God, the one you claim is your Lord and saviour.
You believe your hearts are
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9

Those who have been saved are like this

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Col 3:1


Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.
Col 3:15

So by denying Christ ruling in your hearts and sin running wild you declare
your true allegiance.

The truth is very far from you. Go to Christ and purify your hearts through
the cross and repentance.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.
Prov 10:8

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1

A more modern fool is someone who claims all the words of Christ yet
denies God cares about their heart or how they behave.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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We have new hearts now because we are in Christ - cleansed by the blood of Christ when we believed on Him.

Colossians 3:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

Now we need to have our minds renewed in order to have this transformation reflect outwardly that which is already in our new hearts - the new creation in Christ - the inner man of the heart where Christ lives.

Romans 12:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

How are we transformed? By beholding the goodness/glory of the Lord as in a mirror we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. We see Christ and that we are in Him - created in righteousness and holiness. We "awake to righteousness and sin not". Awake means "to come to your true self, to sober up to be who you already are". 2 Cor. 3:17-18
 
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Amen. Believers have a new heart, a new creation, so they should not be scared of
looking at their emotions and thoughts.

Unless ofcourse this is just window dressing theology which has no basis in peoples
lives. If people truly had a pure clean heart, then a lot of the interactions and abuse
would not be taking place and sin would not be such a problem in many lives.

But maybe the flesh is part of peoples hearts as well, so it is like a partial new heart,
with a partial resolution, but it keeps on getting tripped up. Oppppps.

Does not look like a model that really works or even makes sense.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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But Jesus was dealing with one known sin about which He was saying 'go and sin no more.' He was not speaking about ANY sin.
I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
Interesting statement.

So Jesus could have said go and just sin a little bit, but he chose to express a sinless walk
because that sounded better. But we really know that is what He meant. No, He meant
sin no more.

It is amazing how a lack of faith means Jesus could have not meant what he said, it must
have been sarcastic ...
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Interesting statement.

So Jesus could have said go and just sin a little bit, but he chose to express a sinless walk
because that sounded better. But we really know that is what He meant. No, He meant
sin no more.

It is amazing how a lack of faith means Jesus could have not meant what he said, it must
have been sarcastic ...
Jesus was focusing on her sinful lifestyle of practicing adultery. Jesus cannot compromise His perfect, holy standard so He is not going to lower the bar. Jesus was not demanding sinless perfection "or else!" here if that's what you are implying. Do you claim to sin no more at all? Who are you to judge my faith?
 
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willybob

Guest
He was not dealing with stealing. Only a fool would suggest that, or someone trying to be awkward. Which are you? . The fact that He said 'do not commit a particular sin lest a worse thing befall her' does not mean that He was generally concerned with only one sin, only that in her case it was the major sin that she had committed.
Please spare me the rhetoric, the vain arguments in favor of sin seem to be endless with you...
 
Apr 4, 2017
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I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection. Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
John 8.6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.



The Law was clear, if she had been found in the very act of Adultery, then the Pharisees would have had to bring the man she was fornicating with as well....The Law states In Lev 20 that any fornication committed by a couple that were not married to each other and were married to others were to be stoned together....Numbers 5 says that if this woman was married and committed adultery and a spirit of Jealousy came upon him,the husband was to take his wife to the Priest for him to perform an adultery test....The Pharisees broke a lot of laws in this story....simply to trap Jesus...

Legally the Pharisees and Jesus could not condemn her....spiritually she stood condemned....so Jesus told her....get it right now and do not do it again...this fulfills Romans 8.1