Martin Luther - the founder of Protestantism: Anti-Semitic?

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Jan 17, 2013
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#41
okay.
tomorrow ill write about your church.
all your bad boy popes....all the corruption.
all that icky stuff.

fair is fair.

pics of your guys shaking hands and signing agreements with der Führer.
Go ahead. You can post all the pictures of German heads of state shaking hands with clergy that you like. Post all the slanted Catholic-bashing protestant idiocy that you wish. You'll only be putting on display your ignorance on the subject, and I'll be happy to make garbage of it.

You fail to understand that the Church too was persecuted in Nazi Germany - it's priest rounded up, sent to the concentration camps where they were starved and killed along with the Jews and other outcasts of the Third Reich.
It is commonly understood that Hitler planned the destruction of Christianity within the Reich. Churches within the Reich were systematically closed and most priests were systematically killed, imprisoned, or deported. 80% of the Catholic clergy and five bishops of Warhegau for example were sent to concentration camps in 1939; 108 of them martyrs. In Dachau alone 2,600 Catholic priests from 24 different countries were killed. The Church in Poland was no exception where more than 3000 members of Polish clergy were murdered, nearly 2000 dying in concentration camps.

Under the Nazi policy of Gleichschaltung, which sought to establish totalitarian control and coordination of all aspects of German society, the Catholic Church in Germany faced a number of restrictions. Although most Germans were either Protestant or Catholic, the Nazi Fuhrer Adolf Hitler and senior lieutenants including Martin Bormann and Alfred Rosenberg were hostile to Christianity, and ultimately intended to eradicate the churches under a Nazi future. The Catholic Church sought to preserve its position in Germany by signing a Concordat in 1933 (6 years before WWII). Thus, despite various Nazi violations of the Concordat, the Church was among the very few institutions in Germany which retained a measure of independence from the state. Hitler walked a fine line. He wanted to eradicate the Church from Germany so tried suppressing her, though he was painfully aware that publicly defying the Catholic Church would have been extremely disadvantageous to the power which he held over the German people.

The Vatican issued two encyclicals opposing the policies of Mussolini and Hitler: Non Abbiamo Bisogno in 1931 and Mit Brennender Sorge in 1937, respectively. Mit Brennender Sorge was written partially in response to the Nuremburg Laws and included criticisms of Nazism and racism. Following the outbreak of World War Two, the Vatican, under Pope Pius XII pursued a policy of neutrality publicly, while working discretely against Nazi policy. The Holy See advocated for peace and spoke against racism, selfish nationalism, atrocities in Poland, the bombardment of civilians and other issues. The Pope allowed national hierarchies to assess and respond to their local situations, but established the Vatican Information Service to provide aid to thousands of war refugees, and saved further thousands of lives by instructing the Church to provide discreet aid to Jews.


Now, back to your ridiculous claims, zone. Show us where Luther actually "fought for the Jews and insisted they be treated with respect and dignity." Anyone who knows squat about Luther knows that that is pure nonsense.
But go ahead. Please.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#42
=psychomom;971794]Ah! A fellow shut in. :)
Like you, I get out (rarely) when someone (my husband) takes me. I'm okay with it, though. God is good. :)

Just so I understand you, ma'am, when you say 'some of these ways of worship', do you mean those of the OT Jews?

And if you won't think it rude of me to ask again,

what state do you think unbelieving Jews are in today?
do you think they are heaven bound? (saved)
if so, why?

Thanks for your patience. I am (finally!) learning to
clarify things.
Looking before leaping is rewarded with less pain.
And before speaking...think. Then think again! :)
By these ways of worship I mean the instructions given in the OT that include saying "for all the generations" or something to indicate we re always to do them.

I worked hard on all scripture about Jews being saved. So many verses apply. My final belief is to acknowledge that I don't know all of what God has planned for them or why, and God wants me to let the entire question alone and completely in His hands. I think Romans has the most complete answer to this, but Paul is not easy to completely understand. It even says so in 2 Peter 3:16.

Thanks so very, very much that we can reason together, like it says in Isaiah. I so need that.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#43
Concerning Luther I would also say in his later years unlike Hitler who disliked all Jewry, Luther went against only those Jews who rejected the Gospel. He felt now that the Gospel was clear, their rejection of it deserved punisment.
But he also despised others e.g. as the Turks who rejected the Gospel. His expectations rather should have been that of Paul who's preaching was met with a free bus pass out of town.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#44
So I must remember that he was vulgar and violent? I understand that quite clearly. All one need do is read the man's deluded and confused machinations to understand that he was terribly disturbed, even schizophrenic.
Did you know, for example, that he ate a spoonful of his own feces every day? Stating that he “couldn’t understand the generosity of a God who freely gave such important and useful remedies."
He was obsessed with his own feces, and would often write to people concerning the intimate details of his bowel movements.

Yeah. Eww.
Well through the lens of what we know today, that seems very crude, odd, and insane.

On the other hand, even with what we know today medically, look at some of the crazy things we do. Who knows what odd theories on medicine were going around in the 1500s
 
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7seven7

Guest
#45
Luther is a hero, in my opinion. He did know the Bible, translated both Old and New Testaments into German for the first time. He also brought the church back to "salvation by grace." No rituals, indulgences or intermediaries.

For that alone, we need to respect him, while recognizing he was not perfect, and some things he said were a product of the time in which he lived.
By saying all this, you must acknowledge that the exact same thing should be said about the Catholic Church and Her imperfections (which were never in doctrine or Scripture). If you want to point out the Catholic's violent past which you might translate as hatred, then have a read of brother Maynard's quote from Martin Luther again. What I wish Martin Luther had have done is instead of leaving the Church and causing the BIGGEST separation and split that the Lord's family has ever seen (completely destroying the Lord's wish for us all to be ONE), resulting in thousands more after that, is if he truly thought that there was something wrong with the Catholic Church, then stick around, pray for God's guidance and let God make a difference through him, in His own Church!! All he would've needed was faith the size of a mustard seed. But instead, he weakened Christianity by tearing apart the body of Christ, strengthening Satan so much more by spreading all this hatred against Jews AND OTHER CHRISTIANS, and making Satan's job SO MUCH EASIER. The gates of Hades HAS NOT PREVAILED and NEVER WILL !! But I wish we didn't have to reach this stage of bitterness from our brothers and sisters. Most of them anyway. And Luther is to be blamed, to put it bluntly. The second most important commandment is to Love your neighbor as yourself. Look at how much hatred has come about because of this split started by Luther! It was not a reformation. It was destruction. A big battle won by Satan, but the war is far from over.
 
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7seven7

Guest
#46
okay.
tomorrow ill write about your church.
all your bad boy popes....all the corruption.
all that icky stuff.

fair is fair.

pics of your guys shaking hands and signing agreements with der Führer.

Agreements about what? I shake hands and sign agreements with evil people like banks and governments all the time. Doesn't mean I like or condone what they do.
 
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7seven7

Guest
#47
Yes, Rome surely wasn't squeaky clean when it came to the Jews either.
No body said that Rome was squeaky clean, brother. Our Truth lies in our faith led by the Holy Spirit. Not in humans.
 
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7seven7

Guest
#48
she`s talking out both sides of her mouth like she always does cuz she thinks she`s pleasing to God if she does what Pharisees do.

first she trashes Luther...then backs up because she knows imma whip out THE TALMUD.
You really enjoy trying to intimidate people and lifting yourself up, making yourself out as righteous, dont you, mate? Be careful, buddy. If you know the Bible, you know what I'm talking about. God bless and forgive you. And me.
 
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7seven7

Guest
#49
well....we got RC with the gall to diss the Reformation....no way.
not happenin:)
Hurts when the ball's in the other court doesn't it, boy?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,721
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#51
By saying all this, you must acknowledge that the exact same thing should be said about the Catholic Church and Her imperfections (which were never in doctrine or Scripture). If you want to point out the Catholic's violent past which you might translate as hatred, then have a read of brother Maynard's quote from Martin Luther again. What I wish Martin Luther had have done is instead of leaving the Church and causing the BIGGEST separation and split that the Lord's family has ever seen (completely destroying the Lord's wish for us all to be ONE), resulting in thousands more after that, is if he truly thought that there was something wrong with the Catholic Church, then stick around, pray for God's guidance and let God make a difference through him, in His own Church!! All he would've needed was faith the size of a mustard seed. But instead, he weakened Christianity by tearing apart the body of Christ, strengthening Satan so much more by spreading all this hatred against Jews AND OTHER CHRISTIANS, and making Satan's job SO MUCH EASIER. The gates of Hades HAS NOT PREVAILED and NEVER WILL !! But I wish we didn't have to reach this stage of bitterness from our brothers and sisters. Most of them anyway. And Luther is to be blamed, to put it bluntly. The second most important commandment is to Love your neighbor as yourself. Look at how much hatred has come about because of this split started by Luther! It was not a reformation. It was destruction. A big battle won by Satan, but the war is far from over.
Luther didn"t leave, he was excommunicated. He tried his best to bring the Church back to Holy Scriptures...her roots.
 
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7seven7

Guest
#52
Luther didn"t leave, he was excommunicated. He tried his best to bring the Church back to Holy Scriptures...her roots.
well then He must've don'e something extremely bad to be excommunicated from the Catholic Church, like share views of the kind that brother Maynard posted earlier from Luther. It's not easy to be excommunicated.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#53
By saying all this, you must acknowledge that the exact same thing should be said about the Catholic Church and Her imperfections (which were never in doctrine or Scripture). If you want to point out the Catholic's violent past which you might translate as hatred, then have a read of brother Maynard's quote from Martin Luther again. What I wish Martin Luther had have done is instead of leaving the Church and causing the BIGGEST separation and split that the Lord's family has ever seen (completely destroying the Lord's wish for us all to be ONE), resulting in thousands more after that, is if he truly thought that there was something wrong with the Catholic Church, then stick around, pray for God's guidance and let God make a difference through him, in His own Church!! All he would've needed was faith the size of a mustard seed. But instead, he weakened Christianity by tearing apart the body of Christ, strengthening Satan so much more by spreading all this hatred against Jews AND OTHER CHRISTIANS, and making Satan's job SO MUCH EASIER. The gates of Hades HAS NOT PREVAILED and NEVER WILL !! But I wish we didn't have to reach this stage of bitterness from our brothers and sisters. Most of them anyway. And Luther is to be blamed, to put it bluntly. The second most important commandment is to Love your neighbor as yourself. Look at how much hatred has come about because of this split started by Luther! It was not a reformation. It was destruction. A big battle won by Satan, but the war is far from over.
the division wasn't luther's fault...the division was the fault of the pope for not accepting the gospel and the word of God...

anyway if luther didn't start it then someone else would have...most of the christian world was just about sick of the papacy trying to rule like a tyrant instead of a servant like he claimed to be...

it was about time the pope was humbled...
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#55
she`s talking out both sides of her mouth like she always does cuz she thinks she`s pleasing to God if she does what Pharisees do.

first she trashes Luther...then backs up because she knows imma whip out THE TALMUD.
There you go again, the pot calling the kettle black!!
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#57
How does it feel to be on the other end? Remember this Scripture?
Galatians 6:7 [SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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#58
Is not the pope a man just as I. He put his pants on just like I do. Who made him the head of the church. I can't find in scripture where Jesus made a man the head. Yes, He told Peter that upon this rock I will build my church, But Peter was not the rock Jesus is the rock. Is there any man who is Holy and why should I Pray to a saint or mother Mary. When the scripture says that I can boldly approach the throne of grace. Too much paganism in the Catholic Church for me. If you're Catholic and trust in Jesus then God bless you and I will see you in glory. But, put your faith in no man.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#59
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Lutherans/
truth_about_martin_luther.htm
 
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7seven7

Guest
#60
Is not the pope a man just as I. He put his pants on just like I do. Who made him the head of the church. I can't find in scripture where Jesus made a man the head. Yes, He told Peter that upon this rock I will build my church, But Peter was not the rock Jesus is the rock. Is there any man who is Holy and why should I Pray to a saint or mother Mary. When the scripture says that I can boldly approach the throne of grace. Too much paganism in the Catholic Church for me. If you're Catholic and trust in Jesus then God bless you and I will see you in glory. But, put your faith in no man.
No body said the Pope is the head of the Church. Chirst and Christ alone is the head of the Church bud. And where does is say that no man can be Holy? And nobody told you that you had to pray to saints and Mother mary, just like nobody told us we had to, either. Another misinterpretation of Catholicism on your part. Peace. Just relax and concentrate on your own salvation until you know enough to discuss Catholicism. GB.