misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians

[Mec99]

Lets talk about man made traditions epostle.

Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

God has clearly stated that no one is righteous and that all have sinned. I know for a fact the Catholic Church HATES these verses and HATES the word ALL.

Immaculate conception: The Immaculate conception states that Mary was conceived without sin. That Mary was sinless.

The Immaculate conception is a man made tradition from the Catholic Church that the Catholics are trying to deceive people into believing its from God.

Everybody was born a sinner and sinned their whole life. Mary was born a sinner and did sin. The ONLY person born sinless and never sinned was Jesus Christ.

To claim that Mary also was without sin is clearly saying that Mary is equal to Jesus! The Catholic Church has made Mary to be equal with God Himself.

If anything epostle you need to reject what the Catholic Church says and follow the Holy Spirit instead of following the Catholic Church!

 

[fordman]

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
[SUP]13 [/SUP] each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

So tell me Mec99, in the passages you posted above, do you deny this text speaks of the judgment of God where the works of the faithful will be tested after death?
I also notice Mec99, you always ask people concerning subjects you don't beleive in, to show where it says this or that in Scripture. Now to me, when someone says that, I automatically conclude this person is a beleiver of Sola Scriptura. Back on post #415 of this thread, I asked KenAllen where a few Protestant practices are located in Scripture. He has as of yet responded to my post, so I was wondering if you would like to take a stab at it?

How about "You" showing the Book, Chapter, and verse where the Holy Spirit says to pray the "Sinners Prayer."

Or how about Bible studies? Show where in Scriptue the Holy Spirit tells us to have Bible Studies.

Or how about "Altar Calls"? Show what Book, Chapter, or verse in the Scriptures where the Holy Spirit says there is to be Altar Calls. (do you even have an altar in your church?)

Or How about the idea of ""Scripture interprets Scripture? Show me the Book, Chapter, and verse in the Scriptures where the Holy Spirit says Scripture interprets Scripture.

Or How about dancing and consuming of alcohol that some of todays Christian churches object too? Show me Book, Chapter, and verse in the Scriptures where these practices are wrong, and the Holy Spirit tells us they are to be avoided.

　


Pax Christi

 

[Mec99]

I'll answer your question IF you first answer this question fordman.

Where in the Scriptures does God say Mary is our Mediator? Show me fordman using ONLY the Scriptures where God says Mary is also our Mediator!

Read this verse over and over again fordman.

1 Timothy 2:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Now fordman i challenge you to show me using the Word of God ONLY where God says Mary is also our Mediator!

Prove me wrong fordman, I challenge you to prove it!

 

[Matt210]

No serious student of religion or history would ever believe the absurd charges that Chick Publications specializes in, (often quoted under bible.ca, jesus-is-lord.corn etc. in this forum) but that should hardly give us pause.

There are millions of people all over the world who want to believe the worst about the Catholic Church, and unsophisticated though they may be, these men, women and children will never dislodge themselves of their hatred for Catholicism as long as they are given a steady supply of Chick fodder. To be sure, the Church will survive this assault, but that doesn’t relieve the objections that fair-minded people of every religion should have about Chick.

What makes Chick tick? In one four-letter word, it’s called ENVY. Chick writers attribute fantastic powers to the Catholic Church precisely because they see in the Church a strength and resourcefulness that is absent in Protestantism. In the West, in particular, Chick authors believe that Protestantism should have eclipsed Catholicism long ago. But it hasn’t, for reasons that reasonable people can debate. What can’t be debated is that those driven by envy (with a little madness thrown in) will never cease their offensive against the Church. The one true Church, that is.
A SURVEY OF CHICK PUBLICATIONS - Catholic League

The Nightmare World of Jack T. Chick | Catholic Answers

Jack Chick has always intrigued me to some degree. I have attempted to understand where he is coming from. His teachings on Catholics are so far off base that it is borderline comical.

I once heard Dr. Peter Kreeft describe satan as the king of cowards due to satan's fear of Truth. I sometimes wonder if Chick is one of these so-called satanists. Nobody can produce a picture of him, he does not use his real name or go out in public under this name. He writes under a false name and for good reasons does not wish to be known.

Every Catholic apologetic, Church Father, etc. through history has thrown themselves in the public eye for all to see. They understand that Truth is Light for the world. Their is no reason to hide.

 

[Skinski7]

Originally Posted by Skinski7

1. Your first point is an argument for being able to sin and not surely die. It is just dressed up in the notion that one can get away with "small sins" (which you call Venial) if one is frustrated. The truth is that a genuine Christian abides in the Spirit of Jesus Christ and walks by a faith that works by love and has victory over the flesh, sin and the devil. Anything less than complete victory is a defence of being able to engage in evil and get away with it.

And yet, you still didn't answer the question.....Again I ask, after shouting at the neighbors, with all the anger and stress in his body the man walks into his house, has a heart attack, and dies having just committed a small sin in the final moments of his life. Remember, this man is Christian and justified by the Lord, yet has committed a sin.

"Does he go to heaven or does he go to hell?"

I was addressing the foundation upon which your question rests.

Eternal life will be rewarded to those who patiently continue in doing good, those whom endure to the end just as Jesus taught. There is no escape clause for being able to walk in the flesh and do evil, rather we are to walk in the Spirit, abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ wherefore the righteousness of God is fulfilled within. The authentic follower of Jesus has victory over the flesh, sin, and the devil.

Your question is asking can an individual inherit eternal life if he does not endure to the end and does not abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. The answer is obviously no.

We are justified only so far as we are sanctified, ie. set apart from sin through repentance, faith and the new birth experience. There is no being justified in wickedness.

 

[Matt210]

I was addressing the foundation upon which your question rests.

Eternal life will be rewarded to those who patiently continue in doing good, those whom endure to the end just as Jesus taught. There is no escape clause for being able to walk in the flesh and do evil, rather we are to walk in the Spirit, abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ wherefore the righteousness of God is fulfilled within. The authentic follower of Jesus has victory over the flesh, sin, and the devil.


Your question is asking can an individual inherit eternal life if he does not endure to the end and does not abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. The answer is obviously no.

We are justified only so far as we are sanctified, ie. set apart from sin through repentance, faith and the new birth experience. There is no being justified in wickedness.

You didn't answer the direct question, you slightly changed the subject, and with regards to God's teaching, that's a big deal.

 

[Skinski7]

2. Your second point is a misrepresentation of the text. Paul is speaking in the context of works as they relate to church growth. Paul planted, Apollos watered, yet it is God who gives the increase. God works through people, people are not an isolated function in themselves. Jesus is the foundation upon which all else is built and the Christian ought pay attention in what manner they build. The work of building is tested by fire with the unproductive work burned away. The loss and reward is contextually the fruit of that labour, is the labour fruitful or not?

Okay then, I'll refure back to page 21 of this thread, post #410, section, The Plainest Text:

It says our works will go through "fire," figuratively speaking. In Scripture, "fire" is used metaphorically in two ways: as a purifying agent (Mal. 3:2-3; Matt. 3:11; Mark 9:49); and as that which consumes (Matt. 3:12; 2 Thess. 1:7-8). So it is a fitting symbol here for God’s judgment.

The context is the building of the church. We are God's husbandry, God's building. Paul, by the grace of God, as a wise master builder, laid a foundation which another built upon. Every man is to take heed how they build upon. The works of straw, hay, stubble, gold, silver, and precious stone are in this context of building upon the foundation which is Christ. It has nothing to do with sin. Paul is speaking about productive church growth versus unproductive church growth and why we need to take heed in how we do things. The meaning of the text is plain and simple.

Some of the "works" represented are being burned up and some are being purified. These works survive or burn according to their essential "quality" (Gr. hopoiov - of what sort).What is being referred to cannot be heaven because there are imperfections that need to be "burned up" (see again, Rev. 21:27, Hab. 1:13). It cannot be hell because souls are being saved. So what is it? The Protestant calls it "the Judgment" and we Catholics agree. We Catholics simply specify the part of the judgment of the saved where imperfections are purged as "Purgatory."

You ought to just read and accept the plain meaning of the text instead of imposing your dogma upon it. That which is burned up is unproductive church building work. The fire is a reference to the test of time, the test of future events. The gold, silver and precious stone with endure the trial of fire whilst the wood, hay and stubble will not. An individual can be saved even though they err in how they go about their work and Paul is bringing this up in order that they do not err and thus waste their time.

What you are doing is ignoring the context and attempting to use the passage as supporting that you can sin and not surely perish.

Instead of the unconditional forensic justification escape clause doctrine that many Protestants will speak of, you instead use Purgatory as your escape clause.

You are in error.

You either overcome the wicked one or you don't. Don't be deceived.

And section "Objection!" from same thread/page/post:

The Protestant respondent will immediately spotlight the fact that there is no mention, at least explicitly, of "the cleansing of sin" anywhere in the text. There is only the testing of works. The focus is on the rewards believers will receive for their service, not on how their character is cleansed from sin or imperfection. And the believers here watch their works go through the fire, but they escape it!

First, what are sins, but bad or wicked works (see Matthew 7:21-23, John 8:40, Galatians 5:19-21)? If these "works" do not represent sins and imperfections, why would they need to be eliminated? Second, it is impossible for a "work" to be cleansed apart from the human being who performed it. We are, in a certain sense, what we do when it comes to our moral choices. There is no such thing as a "work" floating around somewhere detached from a human being that could be cleansed apart from that human being. The idea of works being separate from persons does not make sense.
Most importantly, however, this idea of "works" being "burned up" apart from the soul that performed the work contradicts the text itself. The text does say the works will be tested by fire, but "if the work survives... he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he shall suffer loss." And, "he will be saved, but only as through fire" (Gr. dia puros).

The text has nothing to do with being able to serve evil and get away with it either via purgatory (Catholic) or forensic justification (Protestant) for Paul writes...

The truth is: both the works of the individual and the individual will go through the cleansing "fire" described by St. Paul in order that "he" might finally be saved and enter into the joy of the Lord. Sounds an awful lot like Purgatory.

You are just twisting the scripture. The trial of fire is NOW, we are to endure temptation NOW, the crown of eternal life will be rewarded to those who love God NOW. Jesus taught that it is the pure in heart that will see God and that it is those who endure to the end whom will be saved, enduring to the end is our trial of faith, tested by fire. You refuse to believe that and instead choose to believe that there is some kind of cleansing after death by which you can continue to engage in evil now and not perish. It is not the case.

You either get clean now through repentance and faith via the blood of Jesus Christ and then faithfully endure to the end or you will perish in the corruption of sin.

That you can sin and not surely die is a lie of Satan and that is the lie you are clearly implying.

Paul wrote 1Cor 3 in order to push the point that Christians not elevate teachers one above another and end up glorying in men instead of God.

That is the context of the whole passage.

1Cor 3:3-4 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas among you is envying, strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos, are ye not carnal.

That is the context. Not willful transgression of God. They were dividing themselves up by identifying with a particular teacher instead of simply identifying with Jesus Christ. They were not of one mind. They were acting like immature children and needed correction. The various methodologies of the different teachers would be tested by fire as to whether it would stand or fall yet the particular teacher would still be saved. That is the context, not being able to do evil and not surely die. Don't be foolish.
　

 

[Skinski7]

Originally Posted by Skinski7

I was addressing the foundation upon which your question rests.

Eternal life will be rewarded to those who patiently continue in doing good, those whom endure to the end just as Jesus taught. There is no escape clause for being able to walk in the flesh and do evil, rather we are to walk in the Spirit, abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ wherefore the righteousness of God is fulfilled within. The authentic follower of Jesus has victory over the flesh, sin, and the devil.


Your question is asking can an individual inherit eternal life if he does not endure to the end and does not abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. The answer is obviously no.

We are justified only so far as we are sanctified, ie. set apart from sin through repentance, faith and the new birth experience. There is no being justified in wickedness.

You didn't answer the direct question, you slightly changed the subject, and with regards to God's teaching, that's a big deal.

I answered the question emphatically and clearly. If you engage in evil you will surely perish.

The Catholic "Purgatory" is an invention by which people are deceived into believing they can sin and not surely die.

The Protestant "righteousness of Jesus forensically applied to a believer" is also an invention by which people are deceived into believing they can sin and not surely die.



Scripture teaches that faith is reckoned for righteousness, and that it is faith that works by love and that love works no ill.

It is the faithful who will inherit eternal life, not those whom are unfaithful.

 

[epostle]

Really? Israel had the word of God for thousands of years before Christ came to earth. The apostles taught Christ from the OT scrolls until the NT was delivered through the Holy Spirit from the words of Christ Himself. Jesus taught from and affirmed the validity of the OT scriptures not rabbinical teachings.
Perhaps for those who perish. For those who have received of the grace of God it is full assurance that Christ has saved them sealed them and they will be presented in the day of redemption.

Yet you are unable to find one usage of the term "word of God" that applies to the written word alone.

If only you would believe even one of them with the knowledge of the truth who is Christ.

Oh, I believe them, I just don't add "certain" to "certain hope" which is both senseless and unbiblical.

Cheap and uncalled for attempt to demean a man you despise. Calvin knew Christ and opposed the Catholic church so he is their enemy.

That has nothing to do with the point I made.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

This is probably the most abused verse in all of Protestantism.

2 Timothy 3: [12] Indeed all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
[13] while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived.
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, (Tradition)
knowing from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings (Scriptures) which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

"All scripture" does not mean only scripture. Note verse 14. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:

1) Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2) Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3) Know you have the Scriptures

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic teaching on the three sources of sound teaching.

In verse 15 he emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used in the pre-Reformation Church as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible. The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The analogical, anagogical and moral senses of the Bible were known collectively as the spiritual senses.
The 'reformers' rejected the BIBLICAL fourfold method of exegesis in favor of a more literal approach, and ignored 2 Tim 3:16.

Romanism's favorite propaganda Mat 28:19 is not speaking of water baptism.

I am not your enemy.

​

 

[notuptome]

Yet you are unable to find one usage of the term "word of God" that applies to the written word alone.

Absurd and nonsensical. Jesus quoted to satan that man does not live by bread alone but by every word of God.

Lu 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Oh, I believe them, I just don't add "certain" to "certain hope" which is both senseless and unbiblical.

Of course you would not dare to trust in the promises of God.

That has nothing to do with the point I made.

Wait you made a point?

This is probably the most abused verse in all of Protestantism.

2 Timothy 3: [12] Indeed all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
[13] while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived.
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, (Tradition)
knowing from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings (Scriptures) which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

"All scripture" does not mean only scripture. Note verse 14. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:

1) Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2) Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3) Know you have the Scriptures

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic teaching on the three sources of sound teaching.

Excuse me I'm attempting to resist laughing you to scorn over such a self serving slaughtering of the scriptures.

In verse 15 he emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used in the pre-Reformation Church as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible. The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The analogical, anagogical and moral senses of the Bible were known collectively as the spiritual senses.
The 'reformers' rejected the BIBLICAL fourfold method of exegesis in favor of a more literal approach, and ignored 2 Tim 3:16.
I am not your enemy.

Perhaps but you certainly are no friend of biblical truth.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The unadulterated version.

Paul was not Catholic he was Jewish. He would have known and taught from the OT scriptures that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[blondieindahouse]

"All scripture" does not mean only scripture. Note verse 14. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:

1) Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2) Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3) Know you have the Scriptures

What is so terribly sad is that you actually believe the bull you dish out!
Nothing more than written is inferred. You have conjured it all up in your vain imagination

 

[fordman]

I'll answer your question IF you first answer this question fordman.

Where in the Scriptures does God say Mary is our Mediator? Show me fordman using ONLY the Scriptures where God says Mary is also our Mediator!

First off Mec99, I think you are deflecting, but I'll bite. I am going to answer you, but chances are you won't like or agree with it, and that you will use it as your out for answering me. I hope I am wrong and you are a man of his word. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. Anyhoo...... F.Y.I. The Catholic Church does not view Mary as a mediator. That role is for Jesus alone. All the saints in heaven, as well as living Christians, act as intercessors for one another. I think where you error, is beleiving Intercession and mediation are the same, but they are not, they are entirely two different things.

Lets take a look at what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about it.

970:
"Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. (pay close attention here Mec99) But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."[SUP]513[/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP] "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.""[/SUP][SUP]514[/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP] ([/SUP][SUP]2008[/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]1545[/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]308[/SUP][SUP][/SUP][SUP])[/SUP]
[SUP]
Did you catch that Mec99? I think it's worth repeating.... "But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on HIS mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."

Now concerning 1Tim.2:5, many think that the practice of praying to the saints goes against the Bible, claiming that Catholics are making them mediators between God and man and thus diminishing Jesus‘ role as the sole mediator.But this is not an appropriate interpretation of the passage. Let‘s see why not…In the O.T. we see that Moses, Abraham, and Job interceded on behalf of others… that’s mediating between God and man. We know that it is okay to ask others here on earth to pray and intercede for us…. that’s mediating between God and man. So we have a situation here where a passage of the Bible is being misinterpreted and misunderstood.

There is only one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ, but as members of the Body of Christ, He allows us to share in His mediation.

Also, Scripture tells us that we have only one foundation, Jesus Christ (1 Cor 3:11); but, Scripture tells us that there is more than one foundation (Eph 2:19-20). Scripture tells us that we have only Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph 4:4-5); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one lord (Rev 19:16). Scripture tells us that we have only one Judge, Jesus Christ (James 4:12); but, Scripture tells us there is more than one judge (1 Cor 6:2).

These are not contradictions in Scripture, not when these passages are all properly understood in context. Jesus is the only foundation; Jesus is the only Lord; and Jesus is the only Judge. But, we are members of Jesus‘ Body. Therefore, we are able, according to the graces given by Christ, to share in Jesus‘ role as foundation, as lord, and as judge, and in other aspects of Christ, as well. Another example, a father shares in God‘s role as Father, by His grace. And, so also, we, and the saints in Heaven, and the angels in Heaven, can share in Christ‘s role as Mediator.---www.catholicscomehome.org
　
　


Okay Mecc99, the balls in your court. Let's see if you are a man of your word. (See post #462 of this thread.)
　


Pax Christi
　
　
　
[/SUP]

 

[fordman]

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The unadulterated version.

But where in this passage notuptome does it say Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith? Hint: it doesen't. But an examination of the verse in context shows it only claims Scripture is "profitable" (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is "sufficient" which is, of course, exactly what Protestants/ Sola Scripturist think the passage means. And that my friend, in my opinion is the slaughtering of Scriptures, which as far as I'm concerned is no laughing matter!

　


Pax Christi

 

[KennethC]

This is because scripture alone isn't sufficient for the faith, as reading and studying the scriptures means nothing without the Holy Spirit abiding in us and having a intimate relationship with the Lord.

Without that relationship and the Holy Spirit the scriptures will not be understood !!!

This scripture and God Himself also does not give any man the right to add or take away from His Word, doing so has strict warnings !!!

Moving on..........................

 

[ThomistColin]

Umm...neither the Catechism nor the Magisterium deny Blessed Assurance/Certain Hope. They deny knowing beyond any doubt. By the way, the keyword here is "knowing ".

 

[Gr8grace]

This is because scripture alone isn't sufficient for the faith, as reading and studying the scriptures means nothing without the Holy Spirit abiding in us and having a intimate relationship with the Lord.

Without that relationship and the Holy Spirit the scriptures will not be understood !!!

This scripture and God Himself also does not give any man the right to add or take away from His Word, doing so has strict warnings !!!

Moving on..........................

Ken I am curious. Honestly, I think that you are saved and I know that I am. And we are complete opposites on the doctrine of salvation........at this point in our walks.

I say that Christ is totally sufficient and it is totally his work that saved me. My behavior is inconsequential because Christ did the work. Obviously you think I am wrong in my doctrine of salvation, and I try to put all the merit to Christ when it comes to salvation................what spirit am I learning from?

You won't hurt my feelings, If I try to make Christ supreme in my salvation what demon or spirit am I following......because we obviously disagree on salvation. and if you are operating from the Holy Spirit, what spirit am I listening to?

 

[Willie-T]

What is so terribly sad is that you actually believe the bull you dish out!
Nothing more than written is inferred. You have conjured it all up in your vain imagination

I love it. How did you word it on one thread? Oh, yeah, I think it was........ "Tact and Timing." LOL

 

[KennethC]

Ken I am curious. Honestly, I think that you are saved and I know that I am. And we are complete opposites on the doctrine of salvation........at this point in our walks.

I say that Christ is totally sufficient and it is totally his work that saved me. My behavior is inconsequential because Christ did the work. Obviously you think I am wrong in my doctrine of salvation, and I try to put all the merit to Christ when it comes to salvation................what spirit am I learning from?

You won't hurt my feelings, If I try to make Christ supreme in my salvation what demon or spirit am I following......because we obviously disagree on salvation. and if you are operating from the Holy Spirit, what spirit am I listening to?

The only problem I have with you my brother is the understanding that you have that your behavior is inconsequential.

I love you brother and I am trying to show you how the Holy Spirit does not sit back and be inactive in our lives, He guides us and in that guiding leads us astray from remaining to be sinful a.k.a. slave to sinful behaviors.

Through Him we overcome and have victory over that sinful nature, and as we grow and mature in the faith we learn more and more how to overcome each obstacle put in front of us.

We count it all joy to be under His loving Grace because He shows and helps to live a better way of life, and we know we our successful when the rest of the world criticizes by our actions.

Remember Christ said the world will hate us because it hated Him first, and that is because His ways that He guides us in are not the way of the world........

God's grace is wonderful and I thank Him for helping me to not be the wretched person I once was !!!

 

[blondieindahouse]

I love it. How did you word it on one thread? Oh, yeah, I think it was........ "Tact and Timing." LOL

haha Poor example of applied reference. Sit down mocking bird.
The timing is always right now when defending the gospel.
I am defending the gospel. Was Christ soft with the pharisees and sadducees?
It IS sad and it IS bull ie false understanding of scripture. Scripture provided speaks of vain imagination.

2 corinth 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[blondieindahouse]

I love it. How did you word it on one thread? Oh, yeah, I think it was........ "Tact and Timing." LOL

Which btw far be it that you grasp the difference in poopooing on a thread about anothers parenting (which is NOYB) and defending the gospel.