Hevosmies hinted at it when he said if we have free will to disobey God that means we also have free will to basically "give back" salvation after conversion. I pointed out the impossibility of that as our salvation isn't founded on us, but is completely based on Christ. Once salvation is given, God will not receive it back.
Hey man I have a question for you. Right here you are speaking of not being able to be "unsaved", which by the way I agree with 100%. I do not believe Jesus will lose even 1 that the Father has given Him, and those He starts a good work in He will see to the end, and if they went from us they were never of us. So I do not believe that one that is truly reborn of the Spirit, can lose salvation. Clear enough? I agree with this. So when we take this and match it with your other "key points" being, "we can still choose to resist God, we will sin forever, we can't stop sinning, etc..."
Can you understand at all how that can paint a very deceptive picture for the unbeliever, and/or false convert?
Look I agree we don't lose salvation, I agree with the fact the Christian still sins, I agree with both these points. I have the whole time even though somehow in your head "works are evidence of ones salvation", means that if anyone does anything good this means they are saved. This is not, the definition you've put on this phrase is not what I mean at all obviously. If you read "works are evidence of ones salvation" and that's preaching "works", you just have no clue what I'm saying.
"works are evidence of ones salvation" is the whole root of this "debate", even though your whole argument is "we still sin, we can still resist God, we will always sin". These are true statements and are super useful when one is just paralyzed with false guilt from things recognized after rebirth. Yes we are going to battle these things, but that "battle" is ALL God, is ALL by His grace to CHANGE us for His glory. You are saying the EXACT same thing, only your whole focus seems to be on man resisting Gods power after salvation. That's what I conclude from your words.
Form all I've gathered your BIG points are "we will always sin, and never lose salvation".
This keeps people in deception thinking they are Christians when they have not been reborn.
Here is my question; Can you recognize that I am telling you that this teaching here kept me in the darkness thinking I was Christian, and would have sent me strait to hell with a cross around my neck if I would have died in that wreck. What do you say about this? Can you even see my point about the danger of presenting the gospel in this way? At least.
I am telling you right here and now, as clearly as I can, that this that you are teaching here kept me in the dark, they kept me deceived in a false understanding and false sense of security thinking I was saved while living exactly how I was before, enslaved to drugs, porn, video games, selfishness, laziness, brokenness, hopelessness.
I was All NEW (does not mean sinless), and for you to just declare the "old man" being put to death means sinless is something I've never even heard a Christian say or teach, you're the only one I've ever even heard this from before. Nope, the old man is put to death when you're granted repentance. When you turn from "my way", you are putting to death the flesh to turn and FOLLOW Jesus. So we are really saying the same thing two different ways, but you have picked your tribe and dug in for battle. I know this because you have to have put a label on me in your head from the start, to start rebuking me on things I never said at all, and absolutely do not believe. I addressed and posted your words, not what I make up. You never once posted a comment of mine saying anything you rebuked me on. So I honestly have no idea who you were even talking to half the time.
So what to you think about you're teachings keeping me in the dark?
Does this concern you in the least?
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