Not By Works

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VCO

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Regarding salvation, Calvinists are saying exactly that.
No Calvinist believes this, you just need the straw man in a bad way. ;)

Faith does.

Once a person has heard the gospel, that person has the free will ability to choose to believe it, and once he does, he becomes saved.
No person is free outside of Christ, John 8:33ff. You say man is free, Jesus says man isn't. Wonder who's right here? :D


12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Verse 13 proves it isn't by choice.


James 1:
18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The verse is not stating that God decided which individual people He would beget, but it is speaking collectively: God decided to beget Christians. That happens when people hear the gospel and decide to believe it, something anyone can do.
I never made any such claim on that passage. I used the passage to show that it is by God's will we are saved, not man's. Salvation isn't by choice of man, it is by choice of God. :D

1 Pet 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The language is actually "has caused us to be born again". You claim you caused yourself to be born again. God says otherwise, but hey, don't let what God says get in your way. :D

Salvation is a choice and it is initiated by choice.
It's not by choice no matter how bad you want to choose your way into heaven.

God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).
All men, from everywhere, not all men who've ever lived. The all to come to repentance are the elect, the "usward" referenced in 2 Peter 3 following the context from chapter 1; that is, the elect and none other. It doesn't mean all men who've ever lived. But, you take Scripture out of context, so that will not matter to you. :D
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
We choose to believe and make Jesus the object of our faith, I agree it is not our choice that causes salvation,

it is Jesus who gives the gift of salvation,

it is His response, to our belief, on His work on the cross on our behalf.




I don't think anyone is saying they don't have ability to choose. Choosing though does not clinch salvation nor is it the cause, John 1:13; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:3 &c.



Salvation isn't a choice nor is it caused by a choice.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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We choose to believe and make Jesus the object of our faith,.
No, sorry. But you can keep liking the posts from others who attack and slander my beliefs and those of my other "Calvinist" brothers and sisters. That's one choice you can continue to make. :)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Is disagreeing slander?

slander

the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation

If someone said a false statement about you then I would not like the comment, if I liked it was because I do agree with the person that faith/belief at conversion is not a gift






No, sorry. But you can keep liking the posts from others who attack and slander my beliefs and those of my other "Calvinist" brothers and sisters. That's one choice you can continue to make. :)
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I've heard most Buddhists don't believe in God (or a god). Have you heard this?
Yes it is true, the goal of a follower of Buddha is to eliminate suffering in this life so that you will achieve nirvana in the after life, eternal bliss. My wife has her family homes right behind the village temple. So that I have seen close up all of the festivals and merit making that goes on all year long. It gives the Thai villagers a false sense of security therefor they do not respond to Jesus dying on the cross, they do understand why He died, but they have not the need to be save, very sad.

Population 65 million, 90 percent Buddhist, 2 percent Christian, the remainder being everything else in world religions including Jewish Synagogue's, is that being redundant. I believe at last count there are some 10,000 temples, (Called "Wat" in Thai). Throughout the land. Plenty of Idle worship going on day and night, Of course the Christian cults are there as well; JW, Mormon's, and such. My wifes family lives in Northern Thailand about 300 miles from the Vietnamese border, (nam means water), and there is plenty for growing rice.

I worked at my wife's Aunt's rice plantation for 5 years along side Thai farmers, (just for fun and exercise). The Orient Express would pass by her plantation once a month and everyone would stand up and waive to the passengers as they made their way south to Malaysia. Have I bored you to death yet.... My wife and I would return to her family home by Friday, 20 minutes away, to refresh and Connect with our Church family. Today Thailand has the feel of the 50s and 60s in USA, but they are catching up quickly to the modern world. A much slower pace of life than USA.

Long post sorry.........:)
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
Yes it is true, the goal of a follower of Buddha is to eliminate suffering in this life so that you will achieve nirvana in the after life, eternal bliss. My wife has her family homes right behind the village temple. So that I have seen close up all of the festivals and merit making that goes on all year long. It gives the Thai villagers a false sense of security therefor they do not respond to Jesus dying on the cross, they do understand why He died, but they have not the need to be save, very sad.

Population 65 million, 90 percent Buddhist, 2 percent Christian, the remainder being everything else in world religions including Jewish Synagogue's, is that being redundant. I believe at last count there are some 10,000 temples, (Called "Wat" in Thai). Throughout the land. Plenty of Idle worship going on day and night, Of course the Christian cults are there as well; JW, Mormon's, and such. My wifes family lives in Northern Thailand about 300 miles from the Vietnamese border, (nam means water), and there is plenty for growing rice.

I worked at my wife's Aunt's rice plantation for 5 years along side Thai farmers, (just for fun and exercise). The Orient Express would pass by her plantation once a month and everyone would stand up and waive to the passengers as they made their way south to Malaysia. Have I bored you to death yet.... My wife and I would return to her family home by Friday, 20 minutes away, to refresh and Connect with our Church family. Today Thailand has the feel of the 50s and 60s in USA, but they are catching up quickly to the modern world. A much slower pace of life than USA.

Long post sorry.........:)
No problem on the post length and thanks!
 
Dec 28, 2016
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We choose to believe and make Jesus the object of our faith, I agree it is not our choice that causes salvation,

it is Jesus who gives the gift of salvation,

it is His response, to our belief, on His work on the cross on our behalf.
Romans 9:16 easily refutes this.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Also so those who choose not to accept it can be without excuse
Everyone who rejects the Creator, Jesus Christ is without excuse:

Colossians 1:16-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,
Romans 1:20-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.

2 Corinthians 5:19-20 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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[video=youtube;4U93EjMUzXk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U93EjMUzXk[/video]

Hi VCO, here's another cool tune, I'll get to posting on your thread as soon as possible........:)
Yes Please post that one too on my music thread.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Is disagreeing slander?
Nope. But liking the slanderous false accusations of others? Yes, that makes you an accomplice.

the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation

If someone said a false statement about you then I would not like the comment, if I liked it was because I do agree with the person that faith/belief at conversion is not a gift
Really? Several false statements were made in attack mode against me and others and you made certain to like them. Perhaps you enjoy those lies? :D

You liked slanderous comment directed at my Calvinist brothers and myself. That's a fact.

You don't know what you're talking about concerning the gift of faith. And you've yet to address even one Scripture. Not one.

Here's another for you in addition to those given you that show faith is external and not inherent: Ephesians 1:19. We believe by the power that raised Christ according to that text. Obviously you think you possessed that power inherently and chose to believe on your own.

It's highly doubtful you'd change your mind when proven incorrect because your mind is already made up prior to study. You simply run on the comments of others and rarely offer anything substantial biblically speaking.

Then you like posts that make false accusations and slanderous remarks. This is what I've witnessed. And you rarely if ever use Bible. But you know all when we're lied about and agree with it.
 
Last edited:
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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Yes it is true, the goal of a follower of Buddha is to eliminate suffering in this life so that you will achieve nirvana in the after life, eternal bliss. My wife has her family homes right behind the village temple. So that I have seen close up all of the festivals and merit making that goes on all year long. It gives the Thai villagers a false sense of security therefor they do not respond to Jesus dying on the cross, they do understand why He died, but they have not the need to be save, very sad.

Population 65 million, 90 percent Buddhist, 2 percent Christian, the remainder being everything else in world religions including Jewish Synagogue's, is that being redundant. I believe at last count there are some 10,000 temples, (Called "Wat" in Thai). Throughout the land. Plenty of Idle worship going on day and night, Of course the Christian cults are there as well; JW, Mormon's, and such. My wifes family lives in Northern Thailand about 300 miles from the Vietnamese border, (nam means water), and there is plenty for growing rice.

I worked at my wife's Aunt's rice plantation for 5 years along side Thai farmers, (just for fun and exercise). The Orient Express would pass by her plantation once a month and everyone would stand up and waive to the passengers as they made their way south to Malaysia. Have I bored you to death yet.... My wife and I would return to her family home by Friday, 20 minutes away, to refresh and Connect with our Church family. Today Thailand has the feel of the 50s and 60s in USA, but they are catching up quickly to the modern world. A much slower pace of life than USA.

Long post sorry.........:)
Would share a story with you about a man from Thailand here at work years ago but of course it is late. If I recall or you remind me I would like to share with you at some point.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Nope. But liking the slanderous false accusations of others? Yes, that makes you an accomplice.



Really? Several false statements were made in attack mode against me and others and you made certain to like them. Perhaps you enjoy those lies? :D

You liked slanderous comment directed at my Calvinist brothers and myself. That's a fact.

You don't know what you're talking about concerning the gift of faith. And you've yet to address even one Scripture. Not one.

Here's another for you in addition to those given you that show faith is external and not inherent: Ephesians 1:19. We believe by the power that raised Christ according to that text. Obviously you think you possessed that power inherently and chose to believe on your own.

It's highly doubtful you'd change your mind when proven incorrect because your mind is already made up prior to study. You simply run on the comments of others and rarely offer anything substantial biblically speaking.

Then you like posts that make false accusations and slanderous remarks. This is what I've witnessed. And you rarely if ever use Bible. But you know all when we're lied about and agree with it.

 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
No, sorry. But you can keep liking the posts from others who attack and slander my beliefs and those of my other "Calvinist" brothers and sisters. That's one choice you can continue to make. :)
True confession here, I was born again and, baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, by Pastor John MacArthur at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, Calif. Sept 1978. I spent ten years in the music ministry there and was discipled by the man who proof reads all of MacArthur's sermon's text's. Pastor John is a well known 5 point Calvinist and I had been involve with their outreach program called EE, Evangelism Explosion.

Their missionary support around the world is much accredited to our Savior Jesus Christ. I first learned about missionary service to God through Grace Church plus reading books and biographies about missionaries. I would testify before any man that Calvinist are fully in gear going at full speed in pursuit of, "The Great Commission, to say other wise is prejudicial and ignoring the truth, where's your proof.

God bless
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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When you get right down to it, Calvinists don't really believe in the great commission. They think only those God has pre-selected will be saved.

What's the point of sharing the gospel if God has already determined who will be saved?

We are to share the gospel so people have a chance to hear it, so they can choose to believe it (Rom 10:9-17).
Who taught you this it is a false statement and we are commissioned to preach the gospel not share.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Hi VCO, here's another cool tune, . . .
Here is a group from Marysville, CA. They call themselves God's Country Band. I saw them twice about ten years ago, in a little country Church, that sat about 60 people, and they were really good. They had a policy back then that they would put on a Concert at any Church that invited them for no charge; but of course the Pastor took up a collection to help them with their traveling expenses.

[video=youtube;dbNpSKjTz4o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbNpSKjTz4o[/video]


 
Mar 11, 2016
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Singapore
abigail.pro
My pastor used an example similar to this:

Consider a stranger approaches you and declares "I give you my house free of charge. Move in cause it's all yours."

In another example:

Consider a stranger approaches you and declares "I give you my house free of charge. Move in cause it's all yours. Just make sure you clean and maintain it."

The very small distinction makes all the difference.