Not By Works

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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Tragic hey..........wicked to the core
Tragic is right and worse still Catholics worship Yahweh. What does that say about Yahweh and his influence over them?

Although they do say the tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in line with Jewish and Christian practice.

I was not aware Christian churches say that. What about "Guide me O thou Great Jehovah?" Or is that different. I thought Yahweh and Jehovah were interchangeable? Maybe not?

Vatican Says No 'Yahweh' In Songs, Prayers At Catholic Masses - Music & Dance - Entertainment - News - Catholic Online
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,402
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tetragrammaton YHWH ... A lot of thinking it took to put this doctrine of man together.

In Hebrew there are no vowels, although the modern manner of learning it has diacritical markings to point to the fowel sound that accompanies the letters, following the letters. With thos diacriticals YHWH becomes Yahweh.

When the scriptures were first penned in Hebrew there were lso no separation of words and sentences..that made for needing study.

This nonsense about Yahweh being too holy to utter is just that because all it truly means is the description of just what our Maker is to us for now, "Self-Existing." It was translated to English as I Am. Some say, I Am Who I Am.

Suffice it to understanding that our Father will manifest Himself in anyi manner He sees fit, and what He sees fit is always good.

Because of His will to do such He is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, yet One....

This will always remain a mystery until God's great and wonderful day when He shall return to all one languge, a pure tongue so we may all call upon Him with one Nme., which yet no man knows.

The names of our Maker are not really names but attributes, characteristics of what and who He is. The Nam of God could just as easily be called the Fame of God. His name is too important to hide, yet mankind has managed to hide it, the Self-Existing, so that people wind up with a bundle of descriptive words and a secret name. Not so, that so-called secret name is just part of HIs fame. His true name will be known, according to Zephaniah upon His chosen Day and not before.

Meanwhile we should use all of the descriptions He has given us tospread His fame.

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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No Book, No Chapters, and No Version references. Are you trying to be ignored?

If you do not have a good source to copy from on your PC, here is a link to one that FREE. Plus there are over 200 Free add-on books you can choose from.

WORDsearch Basic - B&H Publishing Group


Even if all I have highlighted is one letter, it still copies the entire verse, with the book, chapter, verse number, and version.


John 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.


ALL I had Highlighted was the H on He. I have the paid version so it puts the Book, Chapter, Verse, and Version first. If it is still the same the FREE version puts them last, like this:


[SUP]16 [/SUP] “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 (HCSB)
Hi VCO...I just looked on the site as I am looking for something to help me understand words in the bible, I clicked on the wordsearch to download to my computer but it brought me to register page, so do I need to register first then download, its a great free app and thank you...xox...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
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Folks.....there are no phases of salvation...the following premise is false and posted by a working for, sinless perfectionist pusher...salvation is a one off event with present continuing eternal results based entirely upon grace through faith....do not be deceived by any and all who push works, religion and or so called "phases" of salvation which is false and contrary to the truth.

The Messiah pushes perfect works... and the Messiah warns believers that they will not be worthy to walk in white with Him..... and while we all can be false the Messiah is True always and forever.. this ongoing idea that Faith and works is evil.. when we are talking not about mixing Old and New Wine.. But believing and truly believing of the New wine that Teaches works of Faith.. as in Hear, Believe and do where called to... is the Faith of Abraham.. yet we are even lightened by the Lord for Love is the Law.. Royal Law.. Holy Spirit guiding and comforting the believer.. bringing to mind Truth..

You are correct in saying that by Grace through Faith we are saved.. all believers will confess this by their own conversion..

Ephesians 2

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



but something comes after and that is works...... and if those works are judged not perfect then the Lord Himself states what can happen..

Let no believer be ashamed to be walking in the works ordained by GOD for them through Faith in their Lord and Saviour.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,402
6,685
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It is written all our deeds are as filthy rags, but when God gives His children works, and He does, they become white as snow.

If we do not do the good works we are given due to our faith, we will appear before the throne naked, and this will be the indication we are not worthy, nor ever were.

When Messiah gives us works, they are our attire, simple and true.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,271
6,642
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It is written all our deeds are as filthy rags, but when God gives His children works, and He does, they become white as snow.

If we do not do the good works we are given due to our faith, we will appear before the throne naked, and this will be the indication we are not worthy, nor ever were.

When Messiah gives us works, they are our attire, simple and true.
so what good works is it when you tell folks that " real, understanding Christians do not need to read Paul" and " Paul's letters were to churches with problems, ( which they were ), and if one does not have these problems, they do not need to read Paul."

you said this in another thread. I am telling people In this thread what you think about Christ's hand-picked man to deliver the Gospel, not the Mosaic Law, to the gentiles. you do not like the fact that Paul spoke many times about not being under the Law, so you cook up that excuse I repeated above to try to discourage folks from reading over half the New Testament.

so, I would ask anyone to consider this when reading the opinions ( not truths ) of this individual.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
A perfect example of what I was saying. You pick that verse and another man picks the following verse. No man can tie the two together.

What other verse needs to be tied with this one? So we can make them agree?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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We will answer a question by a question.....WHY do you incessantly post scriptures about law abiding?

Explain the word of JESUS....The LAW and prophets were UNTIL JOHN<---what does that mean

or

For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.<---What does this mean and why was the word TRUTH applied unto JESUS and not to the LAW given through MOSES.....???????
Jesus said "I come not to break the law and the prophets but to fulfill." Your theology is a bit mixed up. The law abides forever. Paul said how would he know when he sinned without the law. Sin is disobeying the law. What Jesus did was give those who accept him the way to escape the penalty of sinning.
 
C

ConsciouslyAware

Guest
A perfect example of what I was saying. You pick that verse and another man picks the following verse. No man can tie the two together.
How Are We Saved?
Fr. Theodore Stylianopoulos
Epistle Reading: Galatians 2:16-20

Knowing that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law shall no one be justified . . . For through the Law I have died to the Law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me - Gal 2:16-17, 19-20.
A large segment of Protestant Christians in the United States are known as Evangelicals. Evangelicals take the Bible seriously. They center their lives on the evangelion (the gospel)--the good news of salvation. They often talk about personal salvation, about “how you get saved,” and the familiar answer is: Accept Christ as your personal Savior in sincere prayer, ask Him to come into your heart and forgive your sins, and you are saved. You are then put right before God and enjoy a personal relationship with Christ. This event is called “justification by faith” or more generally “salvation by faith,” apart from good works. This teaching is based on texts especially from the letters of St. Paul, such as the above (Gal 2:16-20). Many Evangelicals recall the exact date and time of being “born again” and celebrate it as the foremost event in their lives.

We do not judge the sincere convictions of other Christians, lest we be judged, according to the words of the Lord (Mat 7:1). Justification by faith is an authentic teaching of the New Testament. It is also a part of Orthodox teaching because whatever the New Testament teaches as essential, the Orthodox Church teaches as well. The Bible belongs to the Church. Equally, the acts of penitent prayer, asking God for forgiveness, and inviting Christ and the Holy Spirit to dwell in our hearts--these acts, too, are indispensable to Orthodox Christian life. But we must ask: is salvation a one-time event in life? What is the role of faith and works in the mystery of our salvation? What does Jesus say? What does St. Paul say? What do we teach about these issues as Orthodox Christians?

Let’s take a few examples from the life of Christ. We know that Jesus emphasized faith. To the woman with the issue of blood whom He healed, He said: “Your faith has made you well” (Mark 5:34). To the blind beggar He met on a street in Jericho and also healed, He said: “Your faith has made you well” (Mark 10:52). Jesus tied personal faith in Him to the efficacy of healings. But was faith the most critical factor behind these cures? Jesus perceived “power had gone forth from him” to heal the woman with the issue of blood (Mark 5:30). Sometimes Christ out of compassion healed people without asking for faith (Mark 1:34; 3:5). And so with all the acts of healing, it was above all Christ’s divine power that cured the sick, the lame, and the blind. The role of faith was significant but secondary to divine grace. God provided the grace, faith received the gift.

Jesus connected personal faith in Him to our eternal salvation. He declared: “Every one who acknowledges me before people, I also will acknowledge them before my Father in heaven; but whoever denies me before people, I also will deny them before my father in heaven” (Mat 10:32-33). The Gospel of John frequently connects faith in Christ to each person’s eternal destiny. We read: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). And again: “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die” (John 11:25-26). Christ further declared to Thomas: “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe” (John 20:29). Jesus himself is the supreme example of faith. In the garden of Gethsemane, as He confronted the prospect of death by crucifixion, Christ prayed to God: “Not my will, by Thy will be done” (Mat 26:39). Without doubt, faith had a primary place in the life and teaching of Jesus.

But Jesus also demanded good works to go along with faith. A man came up to Him with a question about eternal salvation. “Teacher,” he asked, “what good deed (ti agathon) must I do, to have eternal life?” Jesus did not send him away or correct him. He didn’t say: “You are asking the wrong question; you need only to believe in me and you will be saved.” Rather Jesus said to him: “Keep the commandments . . . You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself” (Mat 19:16-19). Rather than separate faith and works, Jesus closely united the two as being definitive to Christian life. That’s the undeniable implication of His great discourse we call “Sermon on the Mount.” The Sermon contains a vast amount of teachings and exhortations Christ expected His followers to learn and live by (Mat. chaps. 5-7). “Do not bear false witness . . . Love your enemies . . . Seek first God’s kingdom and His righteousness . . . Judge not, that you be not judged” (Mat 5:33, 44; 6:33; 7:1). Jesus set down these teachings as the necessary standards of moral righteousness. At the end of the Sermon on the Mount He denounced the kind of faith that is only lip service. He said those who relied only on faith risked the loss of eternal salvation. He warned: “On that day many will call out to me ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy and cast out demons in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers’” (Mat 7:21-23).

Let us also recall the parable about the Last Judgment (Mat 25:31-46). When Christ comes in His glory with all the angels, He will gather all the nations before Him for universal judgment. Everyone will be divided into two groups--the sheep on the right and the goats on the left--before Christ the King. The ones on the right will be blessed and given the inheritance of the eternal kingdom. The ones on the left will be cursed and sent off to eternal fire. What will make the difference? What will be the criterion of judgment? Works of mercy! Feeding the hungry, welcoming the stranger, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and the prisoner. Jesus declared: “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me” (Mat 25:40).

On another occasion Jesus referred to faith as lifetime work. He urged a crowd not to “labor for the food that perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life.” They asked: “What must we do to be doing the works of God (Ti poiomen ina ergazometha to erga tou Theou)?” He replied: “This is the work of God (to ergon tou Theou): that you believe in Him whom God has sent” (John 6:27-29). The most pleasing work to God is the continuous exercise of faith in Christ as Savior and Lord throughout our lives. Christ promised us a continuous personal communion with Him, a continuous Easter experience, based on love, faith, and the keeping of His commandments. He said: “If you love me, you will keep my commandments . . . If a person loves me, He will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him” (John 14:15-17, 23). Our “new birth” is given to us in Baptism according to the words of the Lord: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). And if we lose our way, heartfelt prayer, repentance, Holy Confession and Holy Communion provide personal occasions for spiritual renewal throughout our lives. How important for salvation the Eucharist is, we know from the words of Christ: “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:54). In these many ways, according to Christ, Orthodox Christians throughout their lives receive salvation and renewal through faith, works, and the sacraments of the Church.

Then there is St. Paul. The apostle is known as the foremost advocate of justification by faith. In the above text of Gal 2:16-20, St. Paul seems to say something very different than His Master about faith and works. These words of Paul reflect his conversion by which he left behind the Law of Moses and joined Christ wholeheartedly. Previously the Mosaic Law was the center of his life, but after Damascus Christ became the core of his being. Christ dwelt in St. Paul: “It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me” (Gal 2:20). From this transformed perspective Paul contrasted and opposed faith and works. He did so categorically: “A person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Jesus Christ; even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law shall no one be justified” (Gal 2:16). The key to this passage is to see that St. Paul is referring not to ethical works but to “works of the Law” (erga tou nomou), namely, the Mosaic Law.

What are the works of the Mosaic Law? Anyone who studies Galatians carefully will note the apostle is referring to the Jewish religious practices of circumcision, dietary laws, and festivals (Gal 2:2-5, 12; 4:9; 5:1-6, 12; 6:12-15). The same reference to “works of the Law” is also primary in the Letter to the Romans (Rom 3:19-20, 27-30). For Paul, such practices were no longer necessary for salvation. Christ had fulfilled their purpose and also terminated them at the same time (Rom 8:4; 10:4). For Paul, to adopt such religious practices as some Gentile Christians were doing, was nothing less that betrayal of the gospel (Gal 1:6-9). He declared: “I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole Law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace” (Gal 5:3-4). St. Paul is not opposing faith to ethical works but to the “works of the Law.”

But what does St. Paul say about ethical works? Do ethical works have a place in salvation? The answer is, most certainly, yes. In the same Letter to the Galatians, Paul uses a striking expression: “faith working through love” (Gal 5:6). Yes, faith is primary, but faith working through love--loving deeds. Good deeds are inseparable from and essential to the life of faith. Otherwise, according to Paul, those who commit sinful acts and do not repent of them--and he names them: fornication, idolatry, sorcery, selfishness, drunkenness, carousing, and the like--“will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal 5:21; see also 1 Cor 6:9-11). In other words, those who do such things, including Christians to whom he is writing, will suffer ultimate loss of salvation. Toward the end of Galatians Paul pens the following admonition as well: “Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a person sows, that he will also reap . . . Let us not grow weary in doing good (to agathon), for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart . . . Let us do good to all, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith” (Gal 6:7, 9-10). We come to Christ as sinners and are justified by faith apart from good works. But once we connect with Christ and enjoy a saving relationship with Him, we ought to honor Him with good works because we love Christ and also because our final judgment will hinge in part on the criterion of good deeds. Paul states: “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” (2 Cor 5:10).

According to St. Paul, not only loving deeds but also the sacraments of Baptism (Rom 6:1-11) and the Eucharist (1 Cor 10:16-22; 11:23-32) are decisive to salvation. Read carefully Paul’s Letter to the Romans, chapters 1-6. Note how often in chapters 1-5 he speaks of faith, the importance of faith, and the blessings that come from faith. But when do all these blessings take place? What is the event at which salvation truly takes hold? Baptism! That’s the answer St. Paul gives in Romans, chapter 6. All of chapter 6 is about Baptism and life after Baptism. For Paul, it is in Baptism that the believer is united with Christ, dies to the power of sin, and receives new life in Christ (6:1-11). Baptized Christians ought to use their bodies no longer “as instruments of sin but as weapons of righteousness” (6:12-13). Life after Baptism, says Paul, includes the responsibility to live by the “standard of teaching” (typon didaches) which Christians have been taught (6:17). Otherwise, even for Christians, “the wages of sin is death” (6:23). Paul is clear-cut about the criterion of final judgment: “God will render to every person according to his works; to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, God will give eternal life; but for those who . . . obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury” (Rom 2:6-8).

Let us sum up the main points. The work of salvation belongs entirely to God. It is God through Christ and the Holy Spirit, who has the divine power to rescue us from the forces of sickness, evil, sin, death, and the devil. It is God through Christ and the Holy Spirit who alone provides justification, forgiveness, and new life to sinners who come to Him with faith. And God provides salvation as a most amazing and unceasing gift to all sincere seekers.

From our side, the question is about receiving and using the gift of salvation. The gift is offered, but if we do not receive it, we don’t have it, and certainly cannot use it. God offers the gift. We can choose to accept it or reject it. As Orthodox Christians we do not believe in predestination. Jesus said: “Whoever wants to come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me” (Mark 8:34). The gift and the challenge to follow Jesus through a life of faith and works coincide.

The reception of the gift of salvation is not a one-time event but a life-time process. St. Paul employs the verb “to save” (sozesthai) in the past tense (“we have been saved,” Rom 8:24; Eph 2:5); in the present tense (“we are being saved,” 1 Cor 1:18; 15:2), and in the future tense (“we will be saved,” Rom 5:10). He can think even of justification as a future event and part of the final judgment (Rom 2:13, 16). For Paul, Christians are involved in a lifetime covenant with God in which we work, planting and watering, but it is “only God who gives the growth” (1 Cor 3:7). We are “co-workers with God” (synergoi Theou, 1 Cor 3:9; 1 Thess 3:2). (Not “co-workers under God” as some translations would have it). The mystery of salvation is a duet, not a solo. It is a life-time engagement with God. It has ups and downs, twists and turns, with opportunities to grow in the love of God, knowing that we can turn to Him again and again and receive forgiveness and a new birth. When we come to Christ as sinners, we have no works to offer to Him, but only faith and repentance. But once we come to Him and receive the gift of salvation, we enter into a sacred covenant to honor Him with good works. We read in Ephesians: “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God . . . [We are] created in Christ Jesus for good works” (Eph 2:8-10).

The teaching of the New Testament is that God’s grace, our free will, and our faith and good works, are intimately connected. The Holy Spirit energizes in us both faith and good works as we thirst for and seek God’s grace. Neither faith nor good works can be presented as merit before God, but only as return gifts in humility, love, and thanksgiving. Let us not forget as well the sober words of James: “Faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead . . . Faith is completed by works . . . A person is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:17, 22, 24). By free will, faith, and earnest labors, we work together with the grace of God in the awesome gift and mystery of salvation. As St. Paul puts it: “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work His good pleasure” (Phil 2:12-13). To God Almighty, together with the Son and the Holy Spirit, be praise and worship forever. Amen.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I see JJ is here. JJ do you want to prove your slander in my thread? Or should I just go ahead and report you. last warning..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jesus said "I come not to break the law and the prophets but to fulfill." Your theology is a bit mixed up. The law abides forever. Paul said how would he know when he sinned without the law. Sin is disobeying the law. What Jesus did was give those who accept him the way to escape the penalty of sinning.
Did Jesus fulfill the law or not?

Once you have repented of your sin and comes to Christ. Has the law not been fulfilled in you?

What good is the law to you after you come to christ? YToyu already know what sin is, and the law can not give you a complete representation of all sin anyway. So again, what good is it to the believer? who has been lead by the law to Christ?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Did Jesus fulfill the law or not?

Once you have repented of your sin and comes to Christ. Has the law not been fulfilled in you?

What good is the law to you after you come to christ? YToyu already know what sin is, and the law can not give you a complete representation of all sin anyway. So again, what good is it to the believer? who has been lead by the law to Christ?
James 2

8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


I think the above is better for Believers to learn and consider...
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Romans 7 states the issue plainly. Here is the NIV translation. Verse 14 is significant.

Romans 7 New International Version (NIV)


Released From the Law, Bound to Christ
1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.


4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.


The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.


13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.


14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!


So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
James 2

8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.


I think the above is better for Believers to learn and consider...
so what is so hard about it, If I break the law one time I am guilty of the law. What was the penalty for breaking the law? The penalty was to be cursed.

So are believers still under a curse, or as paul said, has the curse been removed, because he who knew no sin became a curse for us

 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,402
6,685
113
You are following me. I know how this is by now.

Your question is a false squestion since you did quiesce to my clarification just for you in the thread I quit because you and your partners were hell-bent on despoiling my good works.

You know you understood how what I said about reading Paul is true by Paul's own words. You are not very real my friend,no, not at all.

If you and your sad friends are so uniformed and bored with true life, this I cannot help, but please, do not follow me around with your false accusations. You did say you understood what I meant.......now go away unless you are willing to fellowship in peace and love and truth.


so what good works is it when you tell folks that " real, understanding Christians do not need to read Paul" and " Paul's letters were to churches with problems, ( which they were ), and if one does not have these problems, they do not need to read Paul."

you said this in another thread. I am telling people In this thread what you think about Christ's hand-picked man to deliver the Gospel, not the Mosaic Law, to the gentiles. you do not like the fact that Paul spoke many times about not being under the Law, so you cook up that excuse I repeated above to try to discourage folks from reading over half the New Testament.

so, I would ask anyone to consider this when reading the opinions ( not truths ) of this individual.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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If we are faithless he is faithfull?


Would that not mean that denying him, and being faithless are not the same thing?
Not necessarily...peter denied him. It was caused by a lack of faith and fear of death. So no, I don't see denying Him and not having faith in Him as necessarily two different things. But I would like to hear everyone's thoughts, including lasagna man. :)