Not By Works

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Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"

James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”

James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”
Yes this is the Law of Love. The commandment of Jesus. Love does look different, but Jesus showed us the greatest love is to lay down our life for one another. And we are now lead by the Spirit to love one another.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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You are all over the place. End outcome... purpose... goal... it's not different. The purpose of the law is to lead people to faith in Christ. You laugh at my question, but I noticed you didn't say yes. Works reveal faith. They are not faith. The Law served it's purpose to lead us to Christ. And now we are lead by the Spirit.
You must have misunderstood my view on telos... I was saying the oppisite of what you are saying. It means end goal not end as in over...

and I laughed because I never even hinted at what you imply and ask of me, we have gone through thise before, and I showed that it is a falsehood, that when anyone says the Law is not abolished or that we should be obedient it isthe battle cry of the antinomian to accuse, impy or suppoe that said person is teaching "justification by works"

NONESENSE... was my statement about hypergrace and legalisim being ditches and the teachings of Messiah neing a mountian not telling? No because you want to paint you view of me over my words just as you out your commentary in my name in the prior post.

Yahshua is the way. Yahshua is the salvation of YHWH. That is what His name means and that is the reality.

Here this is Scripture:

Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”

John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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You must have misunderstood my view on telos... I was saying the oppisite of what you are saying. It means end goal not end as in over...

and I laughed because I never even hinted at what you imply and ask of me, we have gone through thise before, and I showed that it is a falsehood, that when anyone says the Law is not abolished or that we should be obedient it isthe battle cry of the antinomian to accuse, impy or suppoe that said person is teaching "justification by works"

NONESENSE... was my statement about hypergrace and legalisim being ditches and the teachings of Messiah neing a mountian not telling? No because you want to paint you view of me over my words just as you out your commentary in my name in the prior post.

Yahshua is the way. Yahshua is the salvation of YHWH. That is what His name means and that is the reality.

Here this is Scripture:

Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”

John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."
I'm not painting any view by asking you a question. If I didn't ask you a question and assumed, I would be painting a view of you. A goal is the end outcome of a game of sport. We play the game to get goals.

Our daily life is to accomplish goals. Once the goal is done, we move to the next one.

The Law lead us to Christ. So that we would be lead by Him directly.

The just live by faith. And works reveal that faith. And the works are loving one another. The Law of liberty is freedom to love one another.

Gal 5:13 For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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I'm not painting any view by asking you a question. If I didn't ask you a question and assumed, I would be painting a view of you. A goal is the end outcome of a game of sport. We play the game to get goals.

Our daily life is to accomplish goals. Once the goal is done, we move to the next one.

The Law lead us to Christ. So that we would be lead by Him directly.

The just live by faith. And works reveal that faith. And the works are loving one another. The Law of liberty is freedom to love one another.

Gal 5:13 For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.
and why does love grow cold? because the condition of without law... can you explain the meaning of this verse to me?

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G045
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness





Well all things are Lawful right?

Isayah 5:20, “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!”

1 Corinthians 10:23, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."






Do you accept the words of the Messiah in the gospels and Revelation as inspired and to be followed by gentile followers of the Most High?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

"commands" is word #G1785 - entolé: an injunction, order, command
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

yet those crying love deny His Law/Commands...

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

then they say ONLY beleive, howver this ignores the 2 greatset Commandsments given by the Messiah AND rejects any doing of what the Messiah says...

This is grace perversion, destroying all the words of the MEssiah and any following of Him in the guise of "grace" and if you do what He says you are "fallen from grace"

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”

John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Mat 4:17, “From that time יהושע began to proclaim and to say, “Repent, for the reign of the heavens has drawn near.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Yes the yare a part of the jot and tittles... and Yahshua is the High Priest...

It was not the priesthood that was abolished, it was the Levitical priesthood, Yahshua is High Priest.... there is still a priesthood...

AND praise Yah! for this, the PERFECT High Priest, eternal and making intercession for His people
what i mean is this:

Whatever is set aside from the holy offerings the Israelites present to the Lord I give to you and your sons and daughters as your perpetual share. It is an everlasting covenant of salt before the Lord for both you and your offspring.
(Numbers 18:19)
in order for the priesthood to be changed, the jots and tittles of the Law that give the priesthood to the sons of Aaron -- in an everlasting covenant of salt -- had to somehow be removed.

if the argument is that no part of the Law is removed because 'not one jot or tittle' -- then the priesthood isn't changed, because that changes the Law, and by changing it, removes jots and tittles. changing the requirement for man to bring bulls and goats and doves to the sons of Aaron also removes jots and tittles. yes, Jesus is become our high priest forever -- but in order for this to occur the Law must be changed. jots and tittles must be removed. the Law says offer the blood of animals -- if His blood was offered and accepted forever, it is according to an unchanged Law of Moses with no yodh removed?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,098
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1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

"commands" is word #G1785 - entolé: an injunction, order, command
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

yet those crying love deny His Law/Commands...

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

then they say ONLY beleive, howver this ignores the 2 greatset Commandsments given by the Messiah AND rejects any doing of what the Messiah says...

This is grace perversion, destroying all the words of the MEssiah and any following of Him in the guise of "grace" and if you do what He says you are "fallen from grace"

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”

John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
and what does John say, in the same letter, that the commands were? believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

nothing about the Sabbath.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Yep taking a few Scriptures out of context once again.

Matt. 5:18 is not a Scripture that commands BELIEVERS to follow the Law. It's a Scripture that says it still exists. But we are DEAD to it. The old ways are gone.

Revelation 21:1 is just you proof texting.

Sure be lead by Him, but He's also in the believers around you. If you don't believe that. Why do you try to correct people?

John 12:48 - "The word that I have spoken." You are conflating this Scripture. It has nothing to do with the LAW.

John 12:4 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

By your own words you think people are sinning right now. People who don't follow the Law. Yet these are people who believe in Him. So are YOU believing the WORD He has spoken?

Acts 3:19-23 Yes follow everything HE says, and He says BELIEVE on HIM. But you're conflating this Scripture if you think this is about the Law. It's about Jesus.

Here's some Scripture about Him:

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. (Luke 16:16)
Amen and the law had two purposes under the sun...

a. Condemn the world and all men as guilty
b. Point to the only cure-->JESUS

No man keeps it, has kept it, will keep it except JESUS. Break one of the least of the commandments = guilty of the whole.

When one sees his guilt, acknowledges Christ by faith and has the blood and righteousness of Christ applied and imputed by faith, the law has worked it's purpose and that person has been born again spiritually from above by the Spirit and with incorruptible seed. They are no longer bound under and or guilty by the law.

The righteousness of Christ has been imputed without the works/deeds of the law........we have been set FREE fro the bondage of sin and guilt of the law.

The law is for the LAWLESS<---the LOST.....NOT SAVED born again believers.....................

CHRIST is the end of the LAW for RIGHTEOUSNESS<----this statement speaks VOLUMES!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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Okay well now we are discussing. Thanks for not just ignoring it.

In regards to following the law. The entire law is fulfilled in loving one another. Yes or no?

As far as your telos commentary that's interesting. With this new information, I see that Scripture as Christ is the end outcome/goal for the Law. Which lines up with plenty of Scripture.

Galatians 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.

Are you justified by faith?
Yes and NO MAN is justified by the law...why? Because no man keeps it, has kept it, will keep it....Except JESUS and it is HIS righteousness which has been applied and imputed by faith....exactly why we stand justified eternally before God
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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Amen and the law had two purposes under the sun...

a. Condemn the world and all men as guilty
b. Point to the only cure-->JESUS

No man keeps it, has kept it, will keep it except JESUS. Break one of the least of the commandments = guilty of the whole.

When one sees his guilt, acknowledges Christ by faith and has the blood and righteousness of Christ applied and imputed by faith, the law has worked it's purpose and that person has been born again spiritually from above by the Spirit and with incorruptible seed. They are no longer bound under and or guilty by the law.

The righteousness of Christ has been imputed without the works/deeds of the law........we have been set FREE fro the bondage of sin and guilt of the law.

The law is for the LAWLESS<---the LOST.....NOT SAVED born again believers.....................

CHRIST is the end of the LAW for RIGHTEOUSNESS<----this statement speaks VOLUMES!
What about practical righteousness, day to day living? While righteousness, in and of ourselves, doesn't save us, what part does holiness play in our walk? I've noticed a small backlash, from different people, when any discussion of victory over sin is discussed. Its instantly assumed that sinless perfectionism is in mind. To what degree do we truly have victory over sin, not only in terms of being justified and not condemned, but in action?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,454
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What about practical righteousness, day to day living? While righteousness, in and of ourselves, doesn't save us, what part does holiness play in our walk? I've noticed a small backlash, from different people, when any discussion of victory over sin is discussed. Its instantly assumed that sinless perfectionism is in mind. To what degree do we truly have victory over sin, not only in terms of being justified and not condemned, but in action?
Called sanctification and it is an ongoing process based upon maturity and the application of the word of God with successes, failures, set backs and fully based upon the transformation found in Romans 12:1-2...it has nothing to do with attempting to keep that which is beyond the ability to be kept....and is summed up in love God and love each other and do right by both.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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to those who say God will cast His own out (which He said He never would)


how do you explain the fact Gods gifts are without repentance?


and to those who say a man throws the gift away himself..... how do you explain the fact we are not kept by the will of man and that no one will remove us from His hand?





never got an answer to this one....
Hi NNM...Also , God has engraved us on the palm of His hand , Isaiah 49:16 , how on earth could He ungrave us ?...We are kept by His power , and His power alone...xox...\:)/...
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,098
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Amen and the law had two purposes under the sun...

a. Condemn the world and all men as guilty
b. Point to the only cure-->JESUS

No man keeps it, has kept it, will keep it except JESUS. Break one of the least of the commandments = guilty of the whole.

When one sees his guilt, acknowledges Christ by faith and has the blood and righteousness of Christ applied and imputed by faith, the law has worked it's purpose and that person has been born again spiritually from above by the Spirit and with incorruptible seed. They are no longer bound under and or guilty by the law.

The righteousness of Christ has been imputed without the works/deeds of the law........we have been set FREE fro the bondage of sin and guilt of the law.

The law is for the LAWLESS<---the LOST.....NOT SAVED born again believers.....................

CHRIST is the end of the LAW for RIGHTEOUSNESS<----this statement speaks VOLUMES!
see but the judeaizers make up this 3rd option, that one has to keep the Law and the Sabbath and the festivals and the dietary laws and not celebrate Christmas and Easter and ……...

they reject the idea of only 2 ways ( perfectly keep the law or accept Christ and His Righteousness ), and make up something else.

which they bounce around and play word games and use smokescreens and misdirection tactics to defend their man-made religion.

notice how many of us give the same consistent truth- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

compare that to their shifting sands , and it is no contest.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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how could i forget when i am ever in my time of need for Him? :)
((and i'm glad you remind me))


the priesthood of Levi, their duties, and the requirement of the people to bring to Levi the sacrifices and the tithes are part of the jots and the tittles.
You forget very important parts of the "jots and tittles" which explain why the Levitical Priesthood with it's "Works of the Law" for justification of sins is gone, replaced my a "more perfect Ministry".

According to the "Author of my Salvation", the Priesthood of Levi is gone because the Word which became Flesh said it would be gone.

He writes the Torah on His people's hearts now, He forgives our sins with His own blood. No more Levite Priests to administer His Words, no more animal sacrifice and ceremonies to cleanse sins. A new Priesthood just as jots and tittles foretold.

So the Priesthood of Levi is gone BECAUSE of the Jot's and Tittles. It's in your Bible.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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see but the judeaizers make up this 3rd option, that one has to keep the Law and the Sabbath and the festivals and the dietary laws and not celebrate Christmas and Easter and ……...

they reject the idea of only 2 ways ( perfectly keep the law or accept Christ and His Righteousness ), and make up something else.

which they bounce around and play word games and use smokescreens and misdirection tactics to defend their man-made religion.

notice how many of us give the same consistent truth- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

compare that to their shifting sands , and it is no contest.
I hear ya and fully agree........most have no understanding that sanctification is dual in usage.....positionally and eternally in Christ and then in our daily living/transformation found in Romans 12:1-2 and based upon NEW TESTAMENT instruction and the application thereof!
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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You know me....instead of stating I am wrong, why not ask me to clarify.....and the point is clear....the time frame the Law and the Prophets lasted until JOHN (I.E>OLD covenant) we are currently under the covenant of Grace which was ushered in and ratified by Christ himself.....

that is the point....peace migo
We have always been under the "Covenant of Grace".

Gen. 6:
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

The Covenant that was changed had to do with how this Grace was applied.

The Old Covenant, through Moses, required that a man must go through Levite Priests who then perform Sacrificial, ceremonial "works of the Law" for the cleansing of our past sins.

The New Covenant through the Creator of Moses, required that a man must go through the Messiah spoken of in the Law and Prophets, no longer through the Priesthood of Levi.

Although I agree that the "Covenant of Grace" was ushered in by the Christ, it must be recognized that this Christ "created all things" and that it was the Christ who spoke to Cain.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? (Grace) and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

It was the Christ who spoke to Abram.

Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, (Grace) and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

It was the Christ who spoke to Issac

Gen. 26:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (Receive Grace)
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar:

We are warned about "another voice", "another Messiah" that didn't give Grace until thousands of years later. But if a person sticks with the Word, and not all those "other voices" with their own religious traditions, we will be able to endure.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
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We have always been under the "Covenant of Grace".

Gen. 6:
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

The Covenant that was changed had to do with how this Grace was applied.

The Old Covenant, through Moses, required that a man must go through Levite Priests who then perform Sacrificial, ceremonial "works of the Law" for the cleansing of our past sins.

The New Covenant through the Creator of Moses, required that a man must go through the Messiah spoken of in the Law and Prophets, no longer through the Priesthood of Levi.

Although I agree that the "Covenant of Grace" was ushered in by the Christ, it must be recognized that this Christ "created all things" and that it was the Christ who spoke to Cain.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? (Grace) and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

It was the Christ who spoke to Abram.

Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, (Grace) and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

It was the Christ who spoke to Issac

Gen. 26:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (Receive Grace)
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar:

We are warned about "another voice", "another Messiah" that didn't give Grace until thousands of years later. But if a person sticks with the Word, and not all those "other voices" with their own religious traditions, we will be able to endure.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
No, we have not always been under the covenant of grace.......and it does no good to engage a man whose pupils are tattooed with a skewed view of the law.......

The LAW (OLD COVENANT) was given through MOSES; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ (NEW COVENANT)

Your comment goes beyond ridiculous!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I'm not painting any view by asking you a question. If I didn't ask you a question and assumed, I would be painting a view of you. A goal is the end outcome of a game of sport. We play the game to get goals.

Our daily life is to accomplish goals. Once the goal is done, we move to the next one.

The Law lead us to Christ. So that we would be lead by Him directly.

The just live by faith. And works reveal that faith. And the works are loving one another. The Law of liberty is freedom to love one another.

Gal 5:13 For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.

My reading of him, is he is Painting himself into a corner where he cannot get out of, except to repent, and he does not seem to want to repent.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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what i mean is this:

Whatever is set aside from the holy offerings the Israelites present to the Lord I give to you and your sons and daughters as your perpetual share. It is an everlasting covenant of salt before the Lord for both you and your offspring.
(Numbers 18:19)
in order for the priesthood to be changed, the jots and tittles of the Law that give the priesthood to the sons of Aaron -- in an everlasting covenant of salt -- had to somehow be removed.

if the argument is that no part of the Law is removed because 'not one jot or tittle' -- then the priesthood isn't changed, because that changes the Law, and by changing it, removes jots and tittles. changing the requirement for man to bring bulls and goats and doves to the sons of Aaron also removes jots and tittles. yes, Jesus is become our high priest forever -- but in order for this to occur the Law must be changed. jots and tittles must be removed. the Law says offer the blood of animals -- if His blood was offered and accepted forever, it is according to an unchanged Law of Moses with no "yodh" removed?
So then how is the Priest Hood, (the everlasting Law) changed? Like you say, it is not changed it is replaced with a "New and better Covenant. The Law is fulfilled in Christ not changed and, I reckon "yodh" means "Law"

What is the "Law of Christ: The answer is;

Galatians 6:2, “Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the "Law of Christ."

The Law was not removed it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ our High Priest.

Mark12:32,33
"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.

33) and to love Him with all your heart and with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself, which is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”…

Apostle Paul say's he is not free from God's Law but under, "Christ Law"

1Corinthians9:20,22
19)
Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20) To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21) To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law, so as to win those not having the law. 22) To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23) I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

God bless!