Not By Works

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Oct 21, 2018
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The FREE GIFT of God is His only begotten Son Jesus Christ.
(Romans 6:23, revelations 22:17)

...“For God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ETERNAL LIFE. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” John 3:16-21

...Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE: THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3

Then John said;

...WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know WE ARE IN HIM: Whoever CLAIMS to live in him MUST WALK as Jesus did.

WE CAN BE IN JESUS IF WE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. HE IS THE LIFE THAT WE MUST ENTER IN. (john 14:6)... ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS. (Romans 6:23)

...If you want TO ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.” matthew 19:17

...Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED hebrews 5:8

...To this you were called, because Christ SUFFERED for you, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:21

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE IN HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29

Those who truly believes in the Son of God loves the light and Jesus is the LIGHT of the world.

Whoever loves Jesus stays in the light and OBEYS His commands. Whoever does not OBEY His commands hates the LIGHT. Whoever hates the LIGHT, hates God. Whoever hates God are enemies of God.

...THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. 1 Peter 2:8

...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE. Romans 11:28-29

Paul was talking here about GOD'S calling and gifts to Israel.

...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5

...This is IRREVOCABLE.

But what did he say to the Gentiles?

...I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, DO NOT BOAST OVER THOSE BRANCHES. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. DO NOT BE ARROGANT, BUT BE AFRAID. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! Romans 11:13-24

What do the following mean

a. Have the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith without the deeds/works of the law.

b. Concluding a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law

c. The gifts of God are IRREVOCABLE


NO AND NO to your questions....
We were JUSTIFIED thru FAITH in Christ. By His sacrifice on the cross, His HOLY blood shed for the forgiveness of our sins, we were made righteous. A righteousness thru FAITH.

Imputed righteousness is simply “Christ in us”

...It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our RIGHTEOUSNESS, holiness and redemption. 1 Corinthians 1:30

No one can be considered righteous without Christ in Him and he in Christ.

For Christ to be in us, we must believe and accept what we have heard (Romans 10:8-17), the WORD planted in us, which can SAVE us, (James 1:21, john 1:1-14,Matthew 13:18-23) then we will receive the promised Holy Spirit. (Galatians 3:14) The Holy Spirit will lead us unto all truth and He will be our Counselor (john 14:26) enabling us to obey His commandments which leads to RIGHTEOUSNESS leading to holiness and the result is eternal life. (Romans 6:16-22)

...“I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; APART FROM ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. John 15:5-8

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR,, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. THIS IS HOW WE KNOW WE ARE IN HIM: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID. 1 John 2:3-6

...But if we WALK in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and THE BLOOD OF JESUS, his Son, PURIFIES US FROM ALL SIN. 1 John 1:7
 
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Amen....the simplicity found in Christ......devalued by many that name Christ!
1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
 
Apr 7, 2014
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this is earth. the fathers will is often not fulfilled.
In order to obtain eternal life, believing in the Son fulfills God's will. (John 6:40)

it is why we are taught to pray for it. there are many, many, many places in scripture where we see God's will unfulfilled.
There is a difference between fulfilling God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME saved: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

AND fulfilling God's will for our lives AFTER we have been saved: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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i agree with your second sentence. we don't work for our salvation we work from it. but the last comment i disagree with. are you saying it is okay to murder since we are not under the law? no we are under the law of the Spirit which is an expansion of some aspects of the law and an abolition of other parts. the moral law was never eliminated. it is restated in the NT over and over. i also disagree with the first comment. if you truly believe what you say, that God is responsible for it all and anything we do means we save ourselves, then LOGICALlY you must accept that those that accept Jesus Christ and live in sin are also saved since NOTHING a person does makes any difference. This is not what scripture teaches.
I think you fail to realise the ramifications of putting yourself under law.

Moses said we must confirm and obey ever word. Failure to do so will cause us to be cursed.

Paul said whoever is under the law is cured Because as moses said, whoever does not obey every word is cursed

James said if we break even the least of all the commmands, we are found guilty of the whoe law.

Psalms 130: 3 the psalmists says that if the lord kept a record of our sins, Who could stand.

All of these passages (and many more) are saying that perfection is required if we want to earn or maontain our salvation. We have failed. Are failling and will fail to live up to that standard

So You can not meet that standard. Nor have I nor Can I, So saying we can not meet this standard is not excusing sin or saying it is ok to murder. it is not ok to do any sin. All sin has its ramification. but for a child of God, they also get chastened By God for their sins, so they even have it worse.

But if your going to sit there and try to maintian your salvation of keep from losing it by being good. Then the bible says you will fail. And you will not be happy with the outcome.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I think you fail to realise the ramifications of putting yourself under law.

Moses said we must confirm and obey ever word. Failure to do so will cause us to be cursed.

Paul said whoever is under the law is cured Because as moses said, whoever does not obey every word is cursed

James said if we break even the least of all the commmands, we are found guilty of the whoe law.

Psalms 130: 3 the psalmists says that if the lord kept a record of our sins, Who could stand.

All of these passages (and many more) are saying that perfection is required if we want to earn or maontain our salvation. We have failed. Are failling and will fail to live up to that standard

So You can not meet that standard. Nor have I nor Can I, So saying we can not meet this standard is not excusing sin or saying it is ok to murder. it is not ok to do any sin. All sin has its ramification. but for a child of God, they also get chastened By God for their sins, so they even have it worse.

But if your going to sit there and try to maintian your salvation of keep from losing it by being good. Then the bible says you will fail. And you will not be happy with the outcome.
they just yell about obedience , command keeping, yet ignore all the warnings about failure to keep all of them perfectly all the time.

there are 2 ways- perfectly keeping the Law or accepting Christ and His Righteousness.
this man-made " 3rd way " they craft will fail. hope one day they see this.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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you have to finish lying about me before you are willing to study the scriptures??

:unsure:
It's not the "scriptures" that teach the following, it is you.

""isn't it human tradition, as far as religion & justification before God, to keep a bunch of laws? to attain worthiness by our works? to establish a righteousness for ourselves? to lay out a group or ordinances and regulations, by which man says they are 'holy' if they obey them? setting up a means of comparison between men - this one is holier, he keeps more of these regulations; this one is not as holy, he fails - setting up a way for men to judge one another?"

I don't believe that Jesus followed the Path He created as the Word of God so He could "be holier than others", or to somehow establish His own Righteousness. I don't believe your preaching in this matter because Jesus didn't establish His own Doctrine, He furthered His Fathers Doctrine. He "submitted" to God's Righteousness, He didn't go about to establish His own as did the Mainstream Preachers of His Time.

If you can't "see" the fatal flaw in this statement of yours, then you most certainly will not understand His Words elsewhere in the Bible

Post, we can't create our own Path to eternity. God's instructions, and satan's instructions are not the same. God is Holier than satan. His Word's are "Holier" that satan's. His Path, that He created, that Jesus walked in, that Jesus told me to "Strive to enter" is the Holy Path. It's not my fault that few really believe in Him.

Your unbelief doesn't make the scriptures Void.
 
Jul 31, 2013
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It's not the "scriptures" that teach the following, it is you.

""isn't it human tradition, as far as religion & justification before God, to keep a bunch of laws? to attain worthiness by our works? to establish a righteousness for ourselves? to lay out a group or ordinances and regulations, by which man says they are 'holy' if they obey them? setting up a means of comparison between men - this one is holier, he keeps more of these regulations; this one is not as holy, he fails - setting up a way for men to judge one another?"

I don't believe that Jesus followed the Path He created as the Word of God so He could "be holier than others", or to somehow establish His own Righteousness. I don't believe your preaching in this matter because Jesus didn't establish His own Doctrine, He furthered His Fathers Doctrine. He "submitted" to God's Righteousness, He didn't go about to establish His own as did the Mainstream Preachers of His Time.

If you can't "see" the fatal flaw in this statement of yours, then you most certainly will not understand His Words elsewhere in the Bible

Post, we can't create our own Path to eternity. God's instructions, and satan's instructions are not the same. God is Holier than satan. His Word's are "Holier" that satan's. His Path, that He created, that Jesus walked in, that Jesus told me to "Strive to enter" is the Holy Path. It's not my fault that few really believe in Him.

Your unbelief doesn't make the scriptures Void.

we're you ever going to study the scriptures or just contextlessly & purposefully mischaracterize my questions in a slanderous way?

i don't think lying about your brother is a good work, dude..
 
Sep 14, 2018
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What do the following mean

a. Have the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith without the deeds/works of the law.

b. Concluding a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law

c. The gifts of God are IRREVOCABLE


NO AND NO to your questions....
Either

1. The bible contradicts itself since James says faith AND works justify.

2. We have here a misunderstanding of the words: Works of the Law and Works.

There's a big difference.
Find out the difference....and you'll understand everything.
 
Sep 14, 2018
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this is earth. the fathers will is often not fulfilled. it is why we are taught to pray for it. there are many, many, many places in scripture where we see God's will unfulfilled.
Not only the above,,,but I find here a lack of understanding of the word BELIEVE.

If everyone here understood that word, they'd stop posting verses that say we are to "believe" as if it meant to believe ONLY MENTALLY.

Belief in N.T. times meant more...as has been posted here many times.
One of the concepts it envelops is that of FOLLOWING.

If we FOLLOW (BELIEVE) Jesus, then we must DO what He commanded and taught.

Mathew 28:19-20
19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

So Jesus says to:

1. Make disciples
2. Baptize
3. Teach them
4. To observe all that I (Jesus) COMMANDED YOU.


This means there are commands ....
Some prefer to think all they have to do is "believe"...somehow or other.
 
Sep 14, 2018
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<><.🕆.><>


YOU TOO ARE COUNTING NON-BORN AGAIN CHURCH GOERS AS SAVED CHRISTIANS, which is totally WRONG.

ONLY BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS are SAVED CHRISTIANS.

Sitting in a Pew every Sunday, does not make you a SAVED CHRISTIAN,
any more than sitting in a Garage every night, would make you a CAR.

They are THESE People that the Scripture warns us that THEY NEVER WERE SAVED in the FIRST PLACE.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

Matthew 7:21-23 (HCSB)
21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ [.Being religious does not make you a Born Again Christian. You must have a genuine Personal Love Realationship with JESUS CHRIST AS LORD, meaning MASTER, to be Born Again. It is not doing the right things that counts, it is mourning over your UTTER SINFULNESS, Receiving HIM as LORD, and out of LOVE FOR HIM, it is doing them with the RIGHT MOTIVE FROM YOUR HEART. NO OTHER MOTIVE IS ACCEPTABLE TO GOT, excepted LOVE FOR HIM and the Brethren. That is what I never Knew You, means; that Inner Personal LOVE Relationship.]
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it. [.This parable is only about those who think they are believers in Christ, and it separates the True Christians from the FALSE Christians. The NARROW GATE is the BORN AGAIN, inner, personal, LOVE relationship with JESUS CHRIST as LORD and MASTER.]
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.

Acts 20:29-31 (ESV)
29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.
31 Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish every one with tears.


NOT EVERY SO-CALLED BELIEVER IS A TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.


Matthew 24:23-26 (HCSB)
23 “If anyone tells you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Over here!’ do not believe it!
24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
25 Take note: I have told you in advance.
26 So if they tell you, ‘Look, He’s in the wilderness!’ don’t go out; Look, He’s in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.


See that LAST VERSE: Do you know that the JEHOVAH WITNESSES teach that JESUS vaporized his body, and he all ready returned and indwells the Watch Tower Publishing House? They think he does that to make sure that everything they Publish will be equal to the Word of God. Surely you did not think of the Jehovah Witnesses as real Christians?


2 Timothy 3:3-7 (NCV)
3 They will not love others, will refuse to forgive, will gossip, and will not control themselves. They will be cruel, will hate what is good,
4 will turn against their friends, and will do foolish things without thinking. They will be conceited, will love pleasure instead of God,
5 and will act as if they serve God but will not have his power. Stay away from those people.
6 Some of them go into homes and get control of silly women who are full of sin and are led by many evil desires.
7 These women are always learning new teachings, but they are never able to understand the truth fully.

2 Timothy 3:4-7 (NJB)
4 they will be treacherous and reckless and demented by pride, preferring their own pleasure to God.
5 They will keep up the outward appearance of religion but will have rejected the inner power of it. Keep away from people like that.
6 Of the same kind, too, are those men who insinuate themselves into families in order to get influence over silly women who are obsessed with their sins and follow one craze after another,
7 always seeking learning, but unable ever to come to knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 3:13-14 (NJB)
13 while these wicked impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving others, and themselves deceived.
14 You must keep to what you have been taught and know to be true; remember who your teachers were,


SEE IT ? ? ? You have INCLUDED ALMOST ALL OF THEM IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE YOU THINK WERE TRULY SAVED, Born Again; as you formed your opinion that Many have lost their Salvation.


1 John 2:19 (NCV)
19 These enemies of Christ were in our fellowship, but they left us. They never really belonged to us; if they had been a part of us, they would have stayed with us. But they left, and this shows that none of them really belonged to us.


Matthew 7:15-20 (NIV)
15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.



Do you see why we Only believe the FEW are truly Born Again Christians ? ? ?


As a SAVED CHRISTIAN, I KNOW THESE VERSES ARE TRUE:

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you
will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

PART 1 OF 2
 
Sep 14, 2018
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PART 2 OF 2


How do you know what I'm doing? You don't even understand what I'm saying or what YOU are posting.

You're post is very colorful and much of it supports my POV.

I'll just pick out two since you've really put a lot out there...nothing that supports YOU because what you believe has no support.

1 John 2:19
is referring to gnostics. I've said this before but apparently not too many hear really study the bible....they just pick and choose what they like from it to prove some point or other.
John was very concerned with gnosticism and spoke of it in a few verses. Yes, the gnostics were not of them. And, I might add, NOT everyone that follows Jesus is OF Him, but those that do the will of the Father, as He said many times.

Mathew 7:21-23
Please notice the last verse which tells us WHO will be denied by Jesus. Does it say those that were not saved? NO. It says those that were LAWLESS, not following the law.

23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!


Mathew 7:13-14
What makes following the narrow road to the narrow gate DIFFICULT?
Some on this thread say all it takes is to "believe". Something must be making it difficult....
Please find out what...maybe it's having to follow the bunch of laws that @posthuman so sarcastically mentioned??


Mathew 24
The JW don't really interest me.


2 Timothy 3:3-7
Please not verse 5:
5 and will act as if they serve God but will not have his power. Stay away from those people.

Yes, much talk on this thread about how we do NOT have to serve God !
I do believe Mathew is saying to keep away from them.



1 Peter 1:3-5
Please note verse 5:
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


Please notice that faith is required for salvation.
No faith....no salvation
And if it is constantly mentioned in the N.T., it must surely be important to maintain that faith.


And yes, Jesus will complete the work in you.
1. Notice that it is NOT completed yet.
2. Jesus will do this IF you allow Him to.
 
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Fran...I know your are not that dense to misunderstand what I said.....It was the MAN that assumed his son was dead because he was MISSING.....wake up....Jesus did not say the PRODIGAL lost his salvation and then regained it...that is your embellishment....!
jESUS said the son was lost. Not me.
Luke 15:24

Jesus is telliing the parable as HE wishes it to be understood.

What does LOST mean in the bible?
Physically lost?
Dead?
Dead to the spirit of God?

You know the answer...


The father NEVER assumed the son was dead, I went through this with @NoNameMcgee and even HE agrees that nowhere is physical death mentioned.
 
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lol.... no one implied the father threw a funeral

and his father freely gave to him knowing he wasn't dead


this was a story to show Gods love to a people who do not understand it... a beautiful story

this can be compared to the shepard going go find his one lost sheep....

this is not a story of throwing away salvation and having it renewed as your false understanding would suggest


but it certainly reflects our Father in heaven and our relationship



(i know you're wrong by the way😮)
Some of the above is right.
Then you veer off according to what you've been taught.
One of us has to be wrong...

This is a story about being LOST and then COMING BACK.
And a LOVING FATHER waiting for us to come back WITH OPEN ARMS.

This is why Hebrews 6 is not as you understand it.
Get one thing wrong and you have to change the whole bible to suit the incorrect theology.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Some of the above is right.
Then you veer off according to what you've been taught.
One of us has to be wrong...

This is a story about being LOST and then COMING BACK.
And a LOVING FATHER waiting for us to come back WITH OPEN ARMS.

This is why Hebrews 6 is not as you understand it.
Get one thing wrong and you have to change the whole bible to suit the incorrect theology.
let's not skip this part- when the son returned , the father restored him just with him coming back and mumbling an apology.

he did not have to do works to be restored. but, I would say it is safe to say, after he saw how bad life was away from his father's house, he gladly did what the father said.

but not to be restored, or maintain his status . the father already did. the father has the authority.
 
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Please find out what...maybe it's having to follow the bunch of laws that @posthuman so sarcastically mentioned??
you might want to actually go see what the actual context and actual subject of the quote is that studydude is slanderously and willfully mischaracterizing me with before you start repeating his lies.

good job @Studyman now you've directly caused one of these little ones to sin.
when you were too busy making false personal attacks to study Matthew 17:24-27.
can i get you a millstone or is repentance found in you?
 
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let's not skip this part- when the son returned , the father restored him just with him coming back and mumbling an apology.

he did not have to do works to be restored. but, I would say it is safe to say, after he saw how bad life was away from his father's house, he gladly did what the father said.

but not to be restored, or maintain his status . the father already did. the father has the authority.
I understand you point....it's just that theologians don't agree with it...except for a very few.
You're arguing with Jesus here...not with me.

Jesus said the son was LOST...
And has been found AGAIN....Again means something existed before and has now been restored.

I agree that God will take a person back JUST BY FAITH ALONE. Just as in the first case.
I still maintain that obedience to God is necessary...we should not be teaching that He'll love and save us anyway even if we don't obey.

This is dangerous.
 
Oct 13, 2017
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have you ever read it?
there are very obvious differences pre and post muhammed. abrogation at work :(
When I was investigating Islam I read many sectiors of it. There is one surah where Moses is taking someone around showing him things. He kills a teenage boy and explains he did that because he MIGHT grow up and become a person who would bring shame on his parents. This is the justification for honor killings.