Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Obedience is how we abide in Him (Christ), not faith. Faith is our hope for the promises given, nothing more.

John 15:10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.

1 John 2:3 By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.

Nobody fronts salvation by works of the law and no one fronts salvation by any works at all but without abiding in Christ, no salvation at all.
Obedience apart from faith is not obedience. Seeking to obtain or maintain salvation by obedience to the letter of the law is not obedience. Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen and without faith it's impossible to please God. Those who "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments (descriptive of genuine believers) remain in His love. IF is a confirmation. You are turning this into salvation by works.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved, demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. *Contrast between those who are born of God and those who are not.*

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Obedience apart from faith is not obedience. Seeking to obtain or maintain salvation by obedience to the letter of the law is not obedience. Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen and without faith it's impossible to please God. Those who "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments (descriptive of genuine believers) remain in His love. IF is a confirmation. You are turning this into salvation by works.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved, demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.
Why are you saved and others not saved, is it something you did that they did not do?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Why are you saved and others not saved, is it something you did that they did not do?
Jesus draws the line in the sand on who is saved and who is not saved in John 3:18 - “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Jesus draws the line in the sand on who is saved and who is not saved in John 3:18 - “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
So you are saved because of what you did, that is, you believed in Jesus right?!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Why are you against once saved always saved......it is just another of saying saved eternally, eternal security, the security of the believer.....

To be honest is really bothers me that people who embrace eternal security have an issue with once saved always saved.
I think it is because they associate that term with calvinism, thus they hate it because they hate calvinism.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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So you are saved because of what you did, that is, you believed in Jesus right?!
I am saved because I am trusting exclusively in what Jesus did to save me (faith) and not in what I did (works).

So what are you trusting in for salvation? Christ alone or Christ + works?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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I am saved because I am trusting exclusively in what Jesus did to save me (faith) and not in what I did (works).

So what are you trusting in for salvation? Christ alone or Christ + works?
That means salvation is conditional. You have to do something to obtain it and in your case, that something is trusting exclusively in what Jesus did. Now, does it really matter if i trust in what Jesus did and still do some works?

My beliefs are different; i do believe i was justified at the cross, long before i was born and long before i knew Jesus or believed in His works. Now that i know Him, i abide in Him by obeying Him.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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I am saved because I am trusting exclusively in what Jesus did to save me (faith) and not in what I did (works).

So what are you trusting in for salvation? Christ alone or Christ + works?
Interesting tense.
You are saved because you are continuously trusting, exclusively in what Jesus did, i wonder what would happen the moment you stop trusting.

Why didn't you say, you were eternally saved the moment you trusted exclusively in what Jesus did?
Either way, it is all about you. What you did.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
FOR THE RECORD--->I do not believe in ALIENS from other worlds. HAVING said that I have been in the military "Marine", used to watch jets of ever flavor come and go at El Toro, been to numerous air shows, numerous airports around the world and have family members that are pilots.....just to qualify what I am about to say....

Christmas night,at my house in Castleraegh, Australia at 10 P.M....we were all outside chatting because it is summer there at that time....Clear as a bell, no clouds, no wind, no sound and a solid RED light came cruising across the sky from the North, no sound whatsoever at all and it stopped on a DIME from SPEED right above us "numerous witnesses"....it hovered for about 30 seconds, split in two and in less than one second and a blink of an eye made the horizon and out of sight....one went NORTH and one went SOUTH....NO SOUND and like I said....from cruising at speed FASTER than any military JET I have seen to stopping on a DIME and then from a DEAD stop to faster than ANY JET I have seen fly and out of SIGHT in less than a second.....NO jet can do that...not even a Blackbird.......

WHAT was it.....NO IDEA....NONE of us had any explanation...........
Sorry, I misread I thought you typed "I do believe in aliens" LOL

Hence my response in 105 884 which no longer requires a response.:D
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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That means salvation is conditional. You have to do something to obtain it and in your case, that something is trusting exclusively in what Jesus did. Now, does it really matter if i trust in what Jesus did and still do some works?
Salvation is conditional on faith in Christ. There is nothing wrong with doing works. Those who have been saved by grace through faith are created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10) The problem is when you trust in works for salvation instead of in Christ alone. We are saved through faith, not works.

My beliefs are different; i do believe i was justified at the cross, long before i was born and long before i knew Jesus or believed in His works. Now that i know Him, i abide in Him by obeying Him.
Your beliefs are certainly different. Are you trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 3:24; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) or are you ALSO trusting in your best efforts to obey Him/works as a supplemental means to obtaining salvation?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Interesting tense.
You are saved because you are continuously trusting, exclusively in what Jesus did, i wonder what would happen the moment you stop trusting.

Why didn't you say, you were eternally saved the moment you trusted exclusively in what Jesus did?
Either way, it is all about you. What you did.
Not so....

It is about believing in what Jesus did
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,492
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Interesting tense.
You are saved because you are continuously trusting, exclusively in what Jesus did, i wonder what would happen the moment you stop trusting.
For by grace you have been (past tense, with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. Yes, I am continuously trusting, exclusively in what Jesus did. 20 + years and still counting. :) Why would I stop trusting? It's too engrained in me and I'm too convinced.

If it was not for the Lord I never would have come to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in the first place. Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) in and enables us (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. All the praise and honor goes to the Lord. (y)

Why didn't you say, you were eternally saved the moment you trusted exclusively in what Jesus did?
Either way, it is all about you. What you did.
Salvation is eternal. It's not all about me. It's all about what Jesus did. Through faith, I trust exclusively in what Jesus did. He gets all the merit/credit. :)
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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You do realize that you come across a little hypocritical when you’re looking down your nose at me like that and then boldly be stating that I’m evil?
Hi Susanna,

We have not exchanged posts before.
Some wonder why individuals get excluded from forums such as these.
The truth is simple. We are just people sharing our views of Jesus and our walks.

Yet some feel because we do not look at faith like they do, we have crossed a moral line,
are evil, worthy of sending to hell, deceived, intentionally dishonest and wrong.

When this conviction becomes you are "satan" or "possessed" it is hard for administrators
not to see this as so extreme these members need to be removed.

It has not seemed to strike people as soon as you think someone is evil by holding an opinion,
one does not think, Jesus did not love like this. If Jesus did not love like this, then neither can I.
There are wonderful folk who think that these positions are just exuberant passion for faith,
not realising it is actually sin in action. How many steps between you are evil to executions?
This has been the history of the church and how these realities progress. God bless you
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Salvation is conditional on faith in Christ. There is nothing wrong with doing works. Those who have been saved by grace through faith are created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10) The problem is when you trust in works for salvation instead of in Christ alone. We are saved through faith, not works.
There you go. Salvation is conditional not so free as it is widely thought, so an individual has to actually do something and that something is to willingly choose Christ and believe in His works. I still can not believe this is coming from an OSAS proponent, i don't hold such beliefs.

It really doesn't matter, works and salvation by faith alone according to you are just the same because it depends on the individual and their choices.


Your beliefs are certainly different. Are you trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation (Romans 3:24; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) or are you ALSO trusting in your best efforts to obey Him/works as a supplemental means to obtaining salvation?
While i was still a sinner (before i believed, before i was born), Christ died for me and reconciled me to God and this is Love. Now that i know what Christ did, i put effort to abide in His love by obeying His commands.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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For by grace you have been (past tense, with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. Yes, I am continuously trusting, exclusively in what Jesus did. 20 + years and still counting. :) Why would I stop trusting? It's too engrained in me and I'm too convinced.

If it was not for the Lord I never would have come to trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation in the first place. Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) in and enables us (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. All the praise and honor goes to the Lord. (y)
The Father elects causes people to believe and then harshly judges those that He did not elect and cause to believe- Is this part of righteous judgement?
Continuing to trust in what Jesus did means you willingly, continuously maintain your salvation because the moment you stop trusting, then salvation is gone.

Salvation is eternal. It's not all about me. It's all about what Jesus did. Through faith, I trust exclusively in what Jesus did. He gets all the merit/credit. :)
But you have just said it is conditional. Conditional means it is not absolutely free and there's something an individual has to do to obtain it.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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Grace is receiving something undeserved. Working for something eliminates grace. The former is biblical; the latter is not. Just my two cents.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Faith/believing is not a work.... this needs to be made very clear.

It is however what God requires.
Work is not necessarily what you handle with your hands or any other part of the body, it is what comes out of our own will/ voluntary- this should be clear too.
What is now coming out is that salvation depends on what we do with our own choices/will. According to OSAS, we choose God and have to voluntarily believe in the works of Christ.