Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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The Father elects causes people to believe and then harshly judges those that He did not elect and cause to believe- Is this part of righteous judgement?
The Father draws and enables (John 6:44,65) , but does not force us to believe (John 3:15,16,18). Election and predestination is not about fatalistic determination but foreknowledge. (Romans 8:29-30)

Continuing to trust in what Jesus did means you willingly, continuously maintain your salvation because the moment you stop trusting, then salvation is gone.
It's not about us maintaining our salvation by forcing ourselves to continue to believe in our own strength. Those who fail to continue to trust demonstrate that their trust was never firmly rooted and established from the start. It's not all about us.

But you have just said it is conditional. Conditional means it is not absolutely free and there's something an individual has to do to obtain it.
Eternal life/salvation is a free gift (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) but just like all gifts, it must be received through faith. It's not automatically given to all. You are making this out to be much more complicated than it really is.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I think without the personal comments. Maybe there’s more to it but this is what I believe at this time.
I would say personal comments are fine if they are true and one is sure they are true!

Personal comments are not okay when they are not true, and are made because of a bruised ego.... like these types of situations......

1. Like being called a liar for a comment that was an obvious statement of exaggeration.

2. Like being called anti-Semitic and filled with hate for stating that the modern day state of Israel is a secular nation.

3. Like when a person(s) is so insecure about themselves and can only bolster their self-image by snarky meaningless remarks that are not even remotely connected to trying to defend a scriptural precept but just purely personal.


Interestingly enough is those that support OSAS on BDF, are not so prone to false assumptions, lying and false personal attacks that I have seen over the past three years.

Above all this, the essential Gospel must be vigorously defended because Satan does not take a day off.

Truth encapsulates love not the other way around.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Work is not necessarily what you handle with your hands or any other part of the body, it is what comes out of our own will/ voluntary- this should be clear too.
What is now coming out is that salvation depends on what we do with our own choices/will. According to OSAS, we choose God and have to voluntarily believe in the works of Christ.
Actually faith/belief is not volitional and this is what often is not understood.

It is not about trying really hard to believe or have faith, that is not belief/faith in the scriptural sense of the word.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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The Father draws and enables (John 6:44,65) , but does not force us to believe (John 3:15,16,18). Election and predestination is not about fatalistic determination but foreknowledge. (Romans 8:29-30)
Doesn't matter, according to you, salvation still depends on an individuals choice (The Father enables but doesn't choose for you) and your belief. So salvation is not free but conditional to your own belief and choice.

It's not about us maintaining our salvation by forcing ourselves to continue to believe in our own strength. Those who fail to continue to trust demonstrate that their trust was never firmly rooted and established from the start. It's not all about us.
If salvation depends on what you as an individual did, i.e believed in what Christ did and not continue to trust what Christ did, you are effectively maintaining your salvation that you obtained by your own choices. Nobody believed for you and no one is trusting for you.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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Actually faith/belief is not volitional and this is what often is not understood.

It is not about trying really hard to believe or have faith, that is not belief/faith in the scriptural sense of the word.
Does God cause you to believe?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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Rom 5:
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! .....

18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

We are to abide in His love which He showed at the cross. This is what grace means.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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God works in the lives of all men but He does not force them to believe, true love can never be compulsive.
This therefore means, that your salvation is very much dependent on your belief. If God doesn't cause you to believe, then salvation is very much your choice. Your choices are much your own works and you can maintain them however much you like.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Rom 5:
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! .....

18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

We are to abide in His love which He showed at the cross. This is what grace means.
You know that the branch can do nothing but receive.... it is a passive connection.

Abiding in His love is not how we are receive the free gift of salvation.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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Actually faith/belief is not volitional and this is what often is not understood.

It is not about trying really hard to believe or have faith, that is not belief/faith in the scriptural sense of the word.
I know folks who lack faith in Christ but hope what they have heard is true. I hope God is gracious towards such folks.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I know folks who lack faith in Christ but hope what they have heard is true. I hope God is gracious towards such folks.
They have not yet reach the point where they are fully persuaded.... I was there for a time...but I did not have all the information that usually is the problem.
 
H

Hevosmies358

Guest
Everybody talking about OSAS this OSAS that.

Well I did some research and I think we found our man:

"Uvuvwevwevwe Onyetenyevwe Ugwemuhwem Osas is a Kenyan professional footballer"
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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Abiding in His love is not how we are receive the free gift of salvation.
It is how we maintain it.

We don't do anything to receive it, it was granted us, not only us but the whole world at the cross; before i was born, i was justified.

Rom 5:
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

...
18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Just like those before Christ did not have to do anything to be sinners, those after Christ are justified in their mothers womb by God's love. Now that we know his abundant love, we abide in Him.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
This therefore means, that your salvation is very much dependent on your belief. If God doesn't cause you to believe, then salvation is very much your choice. Your choices are much your own works and you can maintain them however much you like.
I just told you belief is not volitional

A person can believe something that is against their will.
As well sometimes we want to believe something and cannot.

No one can determine to put his or her faith in something. Either they are persuaded as to a proposition or they retain doubt. Doubt precludes faith (Romans 14:23; Jas. 1:6, 7). A single doubt about the gospel offer will keep one from saving faith. The convicting and convincing ministry of both the Holy Spirit and the Word of God is enough to overcome any doubt.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,120
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Do I have this correct, I have been saved by the LORD He has gifted me all He has gifted you, but because I don't teach or believe in OSAS, MY BEING SAVED IS A LIE? I AM NOT SAVED? AND I am actually denying the Lord and am bringing swift destruction upon myself? Are you also telling me my ways are pernicious because I do not believe in OSAS? And you are also telling me that I am speaking evil of truth OF THE WORD OF GOD, because I do not believe in OSAS? And damnation is waiting for me? So NOTHING except THIS ONE DOCTRINE OF OSAS will keep me from damnation? The whole rest of the Word is a lie? Please be exact and direct in your response.
Hi DeighAn,

If you have been truly SAVED by the grace of God, redeemed by the precious BLOOD of Christ then you are saved for eternity and I can say amen for that! Why for eternity? Because the blood of Christ shed on Calvary is for eternity even in the futuristic events in the Book of Revelation the BLOOD is still apply and glory to LAMB that was slain. If one truly is not denying the Lord then you are not against OSAS. Why because you are not denying what he did!

Another thing I just quoted the same author you just cited and am sorry you just get offended.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,120
712
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Do I have this correct, I have been saved by the LORD He has gifted me all He has gifted you, but because I don't teach or believe in OSAS, MY BEING SAVED IS A LIE? I AM NOT SAVED? AND I am actually denying the Lord and am bringing swift destruction upon myself? Are you also telling me my ways are pernicious because I do not believe in OSAS? And you are also telling me that I am speaking evil of truth OF THE WORD OF GOD, because I do not believe in OSAS? And damnation is waiting for me? So NOTHING except THIS ONE DOCTRINE OF OSAS will keep me from damnation? The whole rest of the Word is a lie? Please be exact and direct in your response.
I ask if you may. If God has already given you the gift are you willing to throw that away?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
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Faith/believing is not a work.... this needs to be made very clear.
It is however what God requires.
Faith is gift, and it is also a work. Without faith we cannot please God. And we choose to exercise
faith. It is a dependency of salvation, without it, there is no fulfilment of the promise.

This needs to be made very clear.
It is what God needs us to do.

6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Heb 11

This is faith that lasts not a flash in the pan.

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last.
John 15

We only have eternal life if we have faith to the end.

22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit
you reap leads to holiness
, and the result is eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
Rom 6

We are one in Christ Jesus, one in our hearts, love ruling all our actions.