Not By Works

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Ariel82

Guest
So you did not exercise any personal faith to come to Jesus Ariel?
We all have faith in different things in our lives. I recognize how God placed people and ideas in my life that lead me to Jesus. I can look back when I first confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior, but even before than I can reflect on how God drew me towards Him.

My faith and trust in Jesus was built upon years of experience, prayer and Bible study.

How did you "exercise personal faith to come to Jesus"?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Why are you constantly elevating Christ's faith above his love for us? 1 cor 13 says Love is the greatest not his own faith.
Bro I never elevated anything.....faith is the starting point followed by maturity and God's love being perfected in us.....and now where have I stated that Love is not the greatest....

Does the bible say the Just shall live by faith? yes or no
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Just looking at these verses we see the full salvation plan for our lives

1. We were sinners and dead.
2. God made us alive with Christ by his grace because of His love and mercy.
3, what do you think it means that we are raised up with him and seated in heavenly places?
4. We are saved by grace through faith, NOT OF WORKS! Therefore we should be humble and not boastful
5. We are God's workmanship and created for good works, which we walk in after salvation.

******
Ephesians 2
Butc God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
To me it means the following......

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Notice the past tense.....

We were dead in sins and trespasses, when we trusted into Jesus and were saved, justified, sealed and sanctified in Christ positionally the above bolded has taken place....we have been TRANSPOSED (a better way of looking at word translated) from the power and fallen kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of his dear SON JESUS. Because of this we are the sons and daughters of God and may COME boldly before his throne of GRACE as children in a positioning of grace to obtain help and mercy in time of need. We have been ELEVATED with Christ as the children of GOD and before GOD have the same access through Christ to the Heavenly Father with the same rights and position as a child.....

NOT ABOVE JESUS, BUT THROUGH JESUS AS A CHILD OF GOD......

Such scriptures as

ASK and you shall receive...
Our FATHER who art in HEAVEN....
Whatsoever YE SHALL ASK THE FATHER IN MY NAME HE SHALL GIVE IT YOU

ETC.....
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Working out your salvation is in regards to "ongoing sanctification" and not striving to obtain or maintain our salvation by works. Eternal life/salvation is a gift that we receive through faith (Romans 6:23: Ephesians 2:8,9) and is not a prize that we work for and earn.
What your not seeing matey is the fact that we must work to please God,,, as he likes to be pleased,,,, and if in that process he shows me favor then that i like and want more... like a nice sip of the wiskey..:)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Who are those who labour and why was it heavy?

What is this rest that Jesus talks about?

Matthew 11:29-30
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

What is Jesus's yoke? Why does he say let's exchange yokes? Where and howl do we find rest for our souls?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
What your not seeing matey is the fact that we must work to please God,,, as he likes to be pleased,,,, and if in that process he shows me favor then that i like and want more... like a nice sip of the wiskey..:)
I think we all seek to please God and that pleasing God brings joy to our hearts.

The question is do we do this because of fear or because of love?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Who are those who labour and why was it heavy?

What is this rest that Jesus talks about?

Matthew 11:29-30
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

What is Jesus's yoke? Why does he say let's exchange yokes? Where and howl do we find rest for our souls?
Old covenant laws are very heavy,
 
Mar 7, 2016
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What is Jesus's yoke? Why does he say let's exchange yokes? Where and howl do we find rest for our souls?
Coz yokes are skins of faith... lets us exchange are yokes or are you stll never ever agree with me ?
 
Mar 7, 2016
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I think we all seek to please God and that pleasing God brings joy to our hearts.

The question is do we do this because of fear or because of love?
we do it when we are in communion and i feel we forget to commune,,, so i have a stradgedy for that its called visualization a few times aday..
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Yes vizulization is a works thats brings me communion lols
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I just call it prayer and Bible study.
.I read others feel connected to God when they serve others or fellowship with their siblings or enjoy God's creation in the natural world.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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I just call it prayer and Bible study.
.I read others feel connected to God when they serve others or fellowship with their siblings or enjoy God's creation in the natural world.
Well i guess yeah but i think there is something in relaxation too.. some people would call that yoga but hey im yogur mad then big deal......:p
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Who are those who labour and why was it heavy?

What is this rest that Jesus talks about?

Matthew 11:29-30
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

What is Jesus's yoke? Why does he say let's exchange yokes? Where and howl do we find rest for our souls?
and Imagine the fact that HEBREWS states to enter into his rest we have also ceased from our LABOR

For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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the highest level of sin is rejecting Jesus.
That above statement you made...straw man #1
Actually I was not thinking of this, because rejecting Jesus is on the ordinary sin level.
No, it is this selfish deeds are sinful, suffering from fear is sinful, not doing things you should
be doing and a long list of OCD things people invent not in scripture. Now this is not a straw
man as you call it because people have said these things.

Not only that they have accused me of being dishonest not to adopt their own ideas, which
are not in scripture.

So on this one thing you want to be critical, and then somehow make irrelevant the whole
thrust of my point. If you cannot see that they are just full of exuses for failure thereby saying
walking in righteousness and blamelessly is impossible, there is little more I can add.

Now Ariel I think you are sensitive to various ideas. Now some identify with my lists and others
do not. A slander is not a slander if it gives an example of a list and is up to the read to put
themselves in the list or not.

Why are you so sensitive? Have you hidden issues you have not faced?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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If you truly believe that salvation is by Faith and not works, why haven't you been able to communicate it clearly and made peace?
Ariel - The discussion has never been about faith and not works but about future sin
forgiven. The theology does not work if future sin is not forgiven. So ofcourse peace
as you put it is not possible, which is why I must be an enemy.

The only reason they talk to you as friend is because of your security tag.
Angela again is like me, and even hold the security tag, but most assuredly she is no
friend of theirs.

In all your theological thinking pure relationship sense should make you see their position
is totally impossible. Righteousness is the rejection of evil deeds and turning away from
the world. Their argument is always on justification, and being under law.

The idea of our heart in heaven with temptation sometimes causing issues is the enemy to
them. Maybe you do not see this but it becomes clearer the more we talk and interact.
But I wonder where you really stand, because you treat them as if they are neutral, and not
beyond sound theology.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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John also said....

If WE say that WE have NO SIN, WE are deceived and the truth is not in US. <---present tense....

SO....I fully agree with all scriptures you posted except for the fact you seem to espouse sinless perfectionism......ONLY one was without sin.....that being JESUS..........
Dear DCCON nice to meet you thanks for your reply. Please forgive me if what I wrote earlier led you to the conclusion that I was promoting sinless perfectionism. This was far from my intent. I believe God's Word (Jesus) is God's power and salvation from sin is an ongoing everyday process that changes the believer into the image of Jesus. In times of ignorance God winks at (when we dont know any better) but each day as he reveals new sins to us by God's Grace we need to repent of these sins and put these sins away. You are correct and your scripture above matches the ones I posted earlier perfectly but salvation is from our sins not in them.

There are many wonderful stories in Matt, Mark, Luke and John portraying Jesus as the great healer. Healing the sick, the blind, the lame, the deaf, the cripples, the lepers and raised the dead. After he healed these people he left them saying your faith has made thee whole, sin no more. The lesson for us here is that we too have the sickness of sin. There is nothing we can do to save ourselves and the wages of sin is death. All of us have sinned and fall short of God's glory but God so loved the world that he sent His only begotten son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Friend, my point is Jesus wants to deliver us and save us from all of our sins. This is an ongoing process because the wages of sin is death. If we a holding on to any sins that God has revealed to us then we become under the Law and no more under Grace until we seek Jesus for forgiveness.

This is a daily process and the work of a lifetime. There are two kinds of sin that is, known sins (the ones we know about and God has revealed to us) and unknown sins (ones that we do not know about that God has not revealed to us) As mentioned earlier in times of ignorance (when we do not know any better) God winks at but when He reveals His truth to us we need to by God's grace repent and confess our sins to Jesus asking for His forgiveness and healing. As we have Faith in the promises of His Word, the great healer will heal us from our sins so we are no longer slaves to it.

The Bible is very clear however in our own strength we can do nothing at all we are sinners in need of a Savior and all we can do in our own strength is sin. However, God has given us the gift of His Word. This is the same Word that was in the beginning. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shined in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. God's Word is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes."

Adding to your verse

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." (1Tim 1:15) We are the sick (sin) we are the lepers, the lame, the blind that Jesus came to save

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2Pet 1:3-4)

"I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me." (Phi 4:13)

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Rom 1:6)

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy." (Jude 1:24)

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common4 to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1Cor 10:13)

"Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." (James 1:12)


"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15)


"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10)


"Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him."

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

"He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."


Hope this helps and clears up any misunderstanding. God bless you!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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20,402
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Dear DCCON nice to meet you thanks for your reply. Please forgive me if what I wrote earlier led you to the conclusion that I was promoting sinless perfectionism. This was far from my intent. I believe God's Word (Jesus) is God's power and salvation from sin is an ongoing everyday process that changes the believer into the image of Jesus. In times of ignorance God winks at (when we dont know any better) but each day as he reveals new sins to us by God's Grace we need to repent of these sins and put these sins away. You are correct and your scripture above matches the ones I posted earlier perfectly but salvation is from our sins not in them.

There are many wonderful stories in Matt, Mark, Luke and John portraying Jesus as the great healer. Healing the sick, the blind, the lame, the deaf, the cripples, the lepers and raised the dead. After he healed these people he left them saying your faith has made thee whole, sin no more. The lesson for us here is that we too have the sickness of sin. There is nothing we can do to save ourselves and the wages of sin is death. All of us have sinned and fall short of God's glory but God so loved the world that he sent His only begotten son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Friend, my point is Jesus wants to deliver us and save us from all of our sins. This is an ongoing process because the wages of sin is death. If we a holding on to any sins that God has revealed to us then we become under the Law and no more under Grace until we seek Jesus for forgiveness.

This is a daily process and the work of a lifetime. There are two kinds of sin that is, known sins (the ones we know about and God has revealed to us) and unknown sins (ones that we do not know about that God has not revealed to us) As mentioned earlier in times of ignorance (when we do not know any better) God winks at but when He reveals His truth to us we need to by God's grace repent and confess our sins to Jesus asking for His forgiveness and healing. As we have Faith in the promises of His Word, the great healer will heal us from our sins so we are no longer slaves to it.

The Bible is very clear however in our own strength we can do nothing at all we are sinners in need of a Savior and all we can do in our own strength is sin. However, God has given us the gift of His Word. This is the same Word that was in the beginning. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shined in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. God's Word is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes."

Adding to your verse

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." (1Tim 1:15) We are the sick (sin) we are the lepers, the lame, the blind that Jesus came to save

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2Pet 1:3-4)

"I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me." (Phi 4:13)

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Rom 1:6)

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy." (Jude 1:24)

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common4 to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1Cor 10:13)

"Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." (James 1:12)


"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15)


"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10)


"Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him."

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

"He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."


Hope this helps and clears up any misunderstanding. God bless you!
For sure our daily sanctification in our lives is an ongoing process of faith, maturity and growth and I fully agree we can curb sin, overcome particular sin and be more righteous in our walk as we grow, mature and surrender to his will....HOWEVER....we will not be entirely SINLESS until death and or a glorified body....even the great men and women of faith in the bible had moments of failure and sin...some recorded and some not....DANIEL, David, Peter, Noah, Moses, Abraham etc. all being examples of righteous men who walked after GOD yet had to confess sin......for those who say they were not saved...don't even bother as such foolishness will not be addressed!
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
The discussion has never been about faith and not works but about future sin
forgiven
No PeterJens..it has always been about salvation by Faith and not works.(the title should give you a clue)

.the fact you can't figure THAT out after years of talking, SHOULD tell you that you might spend a little more time looking in the mirror.

I am sick and tired of false accusations and I am sensitive to people telling lies about my siblings.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Jesus is the door and we enter THROUGH HIM (John 10:9). Jesus was not suggesting that we could merit heaven if we strive hard enough to work for it and earn it. The narrow gate is nonetheless difficult because of it's cost in terms of human pride which prevents the sinner from trusting exclusively in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. It's a struggle and an endeavor for sinner's to let go of their willful, habitual, sinful lifestyles and/or their self righteous works system and take hold of Christ through faith.
I stand with this statement that Jesus is the only door that leads to salvation.