Not By Works

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Aug 15, 2009
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A new phrase to accompany cake takers.......what they spew is like fluff balls with no substance....
Are you sure you're not a member of the media? You just keep spewing lies till folks believe them.

While nobody against you has slammed you, you have an ability to magnify the issue to the point of warfare.

You will say whatever to turn the hearts of the masses.

Get a job at Foxx News.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Glad your not a cake taker and fluff ball......
lol, you are such a comedian. The real problem is in discernment. You are happy to label
everyone on the same criteria, without really knowing them or their faith.

Now what I find illuminating is the desire to defend position, like they are personal or attached
to oneself, rather than biblical insights into the truth.

As soon as you start accusing people of being evil or sinful or driven by spirits etc. you pass from
a theological discussion into personal abuse. At what point does this abuse not take you over
and turn into hatred, animosity, hurt and a desire to destroy people rather than love them?

I have seen anger expressed, a desire to say things that would get one banned, yet this is from
the Holy Spirit and not the flesh? The fruits of the Spirit are,

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. gal 5:22-23

So how is, walking in righteousness and finding Gods grace and love, overcoming sinful
behaviour, and the passions of the flesh, evil and sending people to hell or a terrible sin?

How is anything to do with cake taking or fluff ball related to this?
Are you growing in maturity or deeper into animosity?

I know what you are likely to respond, but my friend and I hope brother in Christ,
you take time to consider that this animosity is not taking over your heart.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Ariel - Seriously you have got to get over yourself. Any group who come in and claim that
future sin is forgiven, repentance in the biblical sense is not needed, or confession, who reject
the sermon on the mount is for believers in every part, are not sound. Now it is a belief system
which one can talk about in theological terms.

Individuals will sign up to various aspects of it, or not. We are talking about this aspect.
Now glorification, the turning of struggling believers into a perfected new creation, I can see.

But compromise with sexual immorality or evil deeds is not a biblical position.
Disowning believers because they do not accept a form of security equally is not biblical.

I would also hold that there is no hope for those who have lost their faith and turned away.
If they come back, amen, but the warning is they will find this impossible. Continuing sin destroys
the conscience and the heart.

How well we can walk as believers is in Pauls words, pleasing to our Father in heaven, in Holiness,
and purity.

Ariel, the real problem is you take it that I am attacking individuals, when rather I am trying to
establish a level of understanding and definition, so we know where we are.

You are so empathetic and identify with a group as if everything is personal, when actually truth
has no partiality.

It maybe over time, the "you are going to hell", "you are sending others to hell" will stop.
Saying people who stand on scripture and Christs victory in righteousness are evil, or preaching
legalism needs to be seen for what it is, animosity and hatred.
Those walking in the rights the cross has given us we should say amen to.

So I pray those who feel condemned by such language embrace the cross and love.

It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable 1 thess 4:3-4

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 1 thess 4:7

hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil. 1 thess 5:21-22

If we can all agree this, then Amen, Praise the Lord.
Because within these phrases is the expectation of being able to achieve this not
defeat.
Don't bother with Ariel..... she's just following her script.

This whole thread is looking like a well oiled machine.

Your actions in here make the script stay alive..... you're feeding it.

It would fall apart if you & a couple of others just shut down & let it go.
:)
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
As I mentioned earlier we are all sinners in need of a savior but our salvation through Jesus is from sin and not in sin by the power of His Word as we believe God. I just believe God's Word when he says...........

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1Jo 1:9)

Are you saying when you ask Jesus to forgive you that he does not forgive your sins and cleanse you from it? Or are you saying that you only believe God forgives you but does not cleanse you from your sins?

...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom 6:1-2)

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom 6:3-11)


May God bless you
Neither...you could read my previous post and see that I have said God gives us the power to overcome sin.

My point is that no one is truly "sinless", except Jesus. We have been washed clean and made "blameless".


Blameless has the same meaning you are trying to convey and has the added benifit of being in the Bible.

You will notice the righteous people in the Bible are called blameless, not sinless.

Only person in the Bible called sinless is Jesus.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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When are you ever gonna wake up & smell the coffee?
There is a syndrome that people have when kidnapped, that they take on the identity and outlook
of their captors. If a salesman comes to your door with the idea of selling anything, the number one
idea is to emotionally identify with you, so that you trust them. They then switch to the subject of
the thing they are selling and treat any criticism as a personal attack.

Now the way you counter act this effect is just shine a light on what is going on.

Cults do this. The way they work is to absorb you into the group by emotional bonding and then you
just accept the ideas you are being given without any objective critical discussion. This is how you
get absorbed, and find you believe the craziest ideas without even realising you have been conned.

So for me the biggest idea is future sin forgiven. It sounds plausible in the theoretical sense, but
actually denies free will, sinful rebellion and reconciliation to God, repentance and faith.
 

WineRose

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2017
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Row A, Column 9
So, this thread is still going on as strong as ever, huh...has anyone had their coffee yet on this fine day (or evening, in my case)?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Dear GraceNPeace,

Thank you very much for your thoughts. However, I don’t think you or Ariel got what I was saying earlier. This is perhaps because I used the word sinless in context referring to what I was previously writing about in message 11417. The context that I was using the Word sinless was without sin before God after repentance, confession and faith in the Word of God for those same sins. Could of saved you some time in writing your last post

God Bless you
"Preaching to the choir" means he knows you might already know this but it might be useful for those whom God brings to this thread and reads it.

It's nice to have a conversation with our siblings without vitriol, false accusations and hurt feelings.

I hope you realise my post was a suggestion that blameless was a better word to use than sinless.

I understood your point. Did you get mine?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Alright PeterJens when you find this "group" point them out to me..,i know WOF folks fall into it but most on this thread don't qualify. WHY aren't you talking to the folks that do?

.
Any group who come in and claim that
future sin is forgiven, repentance in the biblical sense is not needed, or confession, who reject
the sermon on the mount is for believers in every part, are not sound. .
1. Future sins are forgiven by the cross....in that the cross is in the past and anything we do now is in the future but still the cross is strong enough to forgive our "future" sins.

2. Everyone I have spoken to in this thread believe repentance and confession is needed. G777 spills about "change of mind" but eventually you get him to say the same message even if he uses funky words to do it.

3. Your sermon on the mount thread? Haven't read it in a while. Folks will reject that it's needed for salvation, but you will find that most aren't "lawless" as you accuse them of being. They believe in the law written upon the heart.
 
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Aug 15, 2009
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How does a christian grow? By God's power, not ours.

1Cor 3:1 But I, brothers,[SUP]a[/SUP] could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with mil
k, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?5What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.

Heavy statement there.

Now, looking at the flip side, who gives growth to evil?

Most folks say Satan is a polar opposite of God, but..... he copies just about everything God does.

Jesus says "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God."

Who "blesses" the warmakers? Who magnifies the arguments? Who wants conflict?

Be sure of this, that as soon as God's children quits feeding the evil, the argument shall cease, & Satan will have no "glory".

In some cases, silence is the greatest weapon of all. It will bring an argument down when nothing else will.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
How does a christian grow? By God's power, not ours.

1Cor 3:1 But I, brothers,[SUP]a[/SUP] could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with mil
k, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?5What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.

Heavy statement there.

Now, looking at the flip side, who gives growth to evil?

Most folks say Satan is a polar opposite of God, but..... he copies just about everything God does.

Jesus says "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God."

Who "blesses" the warmakers? Who magnifies the arguments? Who wants conflict?

Be sure of this, that as soon as God's children quits feeding the evil, the argument shall cease, & Satan will have no "glory".

In some cases, silence is the greatest weapon of all. It will bring an argument down when nothing else will.
I actually agree with this.

I wonder if you will practice what you preach?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
There is a syndrome that people have when kidnapped, that they take on the identity and outlook
of their captors. If a salesman comes to your door with the idea of selling anything, the number one
idea is to emotionally identify with you, so that you trust them. They then switch to the subject of
the thing they are selling and treat any criticism as a personal attack.

Now the way you counter act this effect is just shine a light on what is going on.

Cults do this. The way they work is to absorb you into the group by emotional bonding and then you
just accept the ideas you are being given without any objective critical discussion. This is how you
get absorbed, and find you believe the craziest ideas without even realising you have been conned.

So for me the biggest idea is future sin forgiven. It sounds plausible in the theoretical sense, but
actually denies free will, sinful rebellion and reconciliation to God, repentance and faith.
Your issue is you believe that people are teaching a license to sin when you hear the terms "eternal security."

However that is not what's being said.

Basically it's the concept that no matter how dirty and how far you fall into the pigpen, God will always welcome you home with open arms.

That will send messages to warn you when you wander the wrong way and shine a light to call you back home.

The theological point is that you can never fall so deep into sin that God can't reach down and save you.

Should you toss yourself off the cliff of sin and debauchery and rely on God's promise to save you?

Jesus told Satan "do not tempt the Lord God"

When people sin, it grieves the Holy Spirit and God may just let the person die.

He is not required to save everyone.

Some people may think they are "elect" and can sin and live however they want. God tells us those people are not "elect" and are destined to hell because GOD CHASTENS ALL HIS CHILDREN.

If someone is not being convicted of their sins, they are probably not God's child.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Your issue is you believe that people are teaching a license to sin when you hear the terms "eternal security."

However that is not what's being said.

Basically it's the concept that no matter how dirty and how far you fall into the pigpen, God will always welcome you home with open arms.

That will send messages to warn you when you wander the wrong way and shine a light to call you back home.

The theological point is that you can never fall so deep into sin that God can't reach down and save you.

Should you toss yourself off the cliff of sin and debauchery and rely on God's promise to save you?

Jesus told Satan "do not tempt the Lord God"

When people sin, it grieves the Holy Spirit and God may just let the person die.

He is not required to save everyone.

Some people may think they are "elect" and can sin and live however they want. God tells us those people are not "elect" and are destined to hell because GOD CHASTENS ALL HIS CHILDREN.

If someone is not being convicted of their sins, they are probably not God's child.
Simple, elegant, and ... true!
Beautifully put!
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Ariel - Seriously you have got to get over yourself. Any group who come in and claim that
future sin is forgiven, repentance in the biblical sense is not needed, or confession, who reject
the sermon on the mount is for believers in every part, are not sound. Now it is a belief system
which one can talk about in theological terms.

Individuals will sign up to various aspects of it, or not. We are talking about this aspect.
Now glorification, the turning of struggling believers into a perfected new creation, I can see.

But compromise with sexual immorality or evil deeds is not a biblical position. (strawman, no one believes this)
Disowning believers because they do not accept a form of security equally is not biblical. (your personal hurt you still going to)

I would also hold that there is no hope for those who have lost their faith and turned away.
If they come back, amen, but the warning is they will find this impossible. Continuing sin destroys
the conscience and the heart.
(the theology point you could state and discuss without the straw man or hurt feelings)

How well we can walk as believers is in Pauls words, pleasing to our Father in heaven, in Holiness,
and purity.

Ariel, the real problem is you take it that I am attacking individuals, when rather I am trying to
establish a level of understanding and definition, so we know where we are. (no I say you are establishing strawmen and making it seem as if that is what your opposing group believes, When it's just a lie. No individuals because then it could be easily disproved)

You are so empathetic and identify with a group as if everything is personal, when actually truth
has no partiality. (i am empathetic but also logical and rational. What I reject is your strawmen that are false images of what is actually being said or believed)yes truth has no partiality, yet you are partial and easily offended.

It maybe over time, the "you are going to hell", "you are sending others to hell" will stop.
Saying people who stand on scripture and Christs victory in righteousness are evil, or preaching
legalism needs to be seen for what it is, animosity and hatred.
Those walking in the rights the cross has given us we should say amen to.
(here we have your real issue: why don't they accept what you are preaching as Biblical truth?)

So I pray those who feel condemned by such language embrace the cross and love.

It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable 1 thess 4:3-4

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 1 thess 4:7

hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil. 1 thess 5:21-22

If we can all agree this, then Amen, Praise the Lord.
Because within these phrases is the expectation of being able to achieve this not
defeat.
I have to get over myself?

Hold up the mirror PeterJens.

It is YOU that is taking this personal.

If someone told me I was teaching legalism and sending people to hell, i would probably be offended too.

If I was unable to communicate and get my brothers and sisters to understand what I was saying, I would be frustrated as well.

But all you are doing is creating false strawmen and claiming people are teaching that people promote sin.

When it's really YOUR issues and misunderstanding of what is being said that you are continuing to post.

Here I will underline your words to help you see how this issue is really a personal one you have taken hold of.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Here is an easy test...

Who agrees with these words

.
It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable 1 thess 4:3-4

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 1 thess 4:7

hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil. 1 thess 5:21-22

If we can all agree this, then Amen, Praise the Lord.

Because within these phrases is the expectation of being able to achieve this not defeat. .
If you disagree please state why. Thanks.

Personally if this was all that was posted:

God wills for us to be sanctified and holy!

I would say, Amen!
 
Feb 24, 2015
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1. Future sins are forgiven by the cross....in that the cross is in the past and anything we do now is in the future but still the cross is strong enough to forgive our "future" sins.
The doctrine of future sins forgiven, is the concept between now and eternity all the
sinful acts you will perform are forgiven now in the present, at the point of coming to
faith in Christ. The dependency on forgiveness in present time is faith and repentance.
So yes the cross forgives all sin repentented of in the present tense so is future sin forgiven
from when the act of sacrifice in time was made. But this is not our future sin forgiven as
until it is done it does not exist, so cannot be forgiven, and in faith will never happen.
But out of these future sin forgiven concept comes a lot of heresy and evil.

2. Everyone I have spoken to in this thread believe repentance and confession is needed. G777 spills about "change of mind" but eventually you get him to say the same message even if he uses funky words to do it.
Repentance and confession of sin is the common experience of most, which is interesting
compare to often the declarations about changing ones mind. Those who talked most
strongly about no need for specific repentance of specific sins seems to a left or gone
silent. A lot did express repentance of sin was a one off event at conversion and not specific,
but how truthful that is you are casting doubt on. I would hope people now accept biblical
repentance, but I have previously found to my shock a lot did not.
Maybe the argument is being won, the Holy Spirit is convicting people in regard to the truth.
3. Your sermon on the mount thread? Haven't read it in a while. Folks will reject that it's needed for salvation, but you will find that most aren't "lawless" as you accuse them of being. They believe in the law written upon the heart.
All I can say is what people have expressed in the past.
To me if everyone accepts the sermon on the mount as Christs eternal words, amen.

What I do know is when you put these points up to vote the vote got split 50/50.
So I do have little confidence in you proclamations. I do wonder why you make them, as
you are not the final authority or judge of what can and cannot be expressed lol.

And as far as identifying groups, that is irrelevant, because they exist, how people feel
wedded to them is a different question. But you regard raising these points as lying.
I call that delusion, and denying what people have openly expressed in the past.

You want so badly that people conform to your views, you project them everywhere, even
when clearly they are just trying to keep you happy, lol.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I cannot speak for Ariel, but I do not get the impression that you obviously do get what she is saying.

If one is blameless before God then "obviously" that means that one's sins are forgiven.
It does not necessarily follow that one is sinless.
Scripture like 1 John 1:9 does not prove that the cleansing that is spoken of means that we do not sin and are sinless.
Ratchet back just one verse to 1 John 1:8 for the context and bear in mind the readers of this epistle were believers, they were already Christians, yet John writes this:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

This verse is directed at believers!
But John goes on and then says this:

9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
The context is here is not that one's salvation is at risk.
And, finally just to hammer the point home John circles back for emphasis in verse 10:

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:10

All of this directed at BELIEVERS.
Perhaps Paul was exactly correct when he dictated this:

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a]8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom 7:7-24
Again, Paul's readers are believers; what is more Paul is describing his own battle between his spirit and the flesh.
This is a long bit of text but it is important to read the whole thing in a co-ordinated fashion to get the entire argument.

There is no doubt that Paul is suggesting that have have two natures as Christians. Our sin nature is NOT extinguished when we become Christians. Yes, it is superseded by our new regenerated spirit, but what Paul refers to as the flesh (Rom 7:24) sin still abides.

Paul then goes straight on and says this:

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Rom 8:1-11


Again, a long bit of text.
vs 1 starts like this:
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Who are those who are not condemned: those who are in Christ Jesus; those who do not walk according to teh flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Paul spends a lot of time here comparing and contrasting walking in the Spirit versus walking in the flesh.
In verse 9 he clarifies who walks in the Spirit:
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
What is the distinguishing feature: the fact that the Spirit of God dwells within you!
The second sentence of the verse restates the same proposition for emphasis.
Sin, or the lack thereof, is NOT the criterion.

Read the entire passage - not just the bits highlighted!

However, Paul is not finished!
He goes on and says this:

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. Rom 8:12-17

If, to be led by Spirit implies leading a perfectly sinless life then it makes an absolute mockery of what Paul says in Romans chapter 7. The thrust of verses 12-14 is definitely to subdue the flesh (read sinful tendencies) and to line ourselves up with the (Holy) Spirit but this cannot guarantee, of itself, that a believer never sins - the war in our members that Paul refers to in Rom 7:23 is very real.

Furthermore, Paul goes on to explain what it means to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. In vs 15 the Holy Spirit is referred to as the "Spirit of Adoption". Paul explicitly contrasts the "Spirit of Adoption" with what he calls a "spirit of bondage again to fear". Paul is unmistakably reassuring us about our adoption into the family of God:
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
Rom 8:16-17
This is assurance of salvation!

In Ephesians Paul writes this:

2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.Eph 2:1-10

The first few verse are very much a summary of what he outlines in Romans chapter 8, but then Paul goes on to make an extraordinary statement:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. Eph 2:8-9

Our salvation is purely by grace (unmerited favour). Even the faith that we need to believe is supplied by God - it is not ours in the sense that we generated that faith. Then Paul, in explicit contrast, emphasises that our salvation is NOT of works, that there is NOTHING that we can do for ourselves in this context.
Clearly, this means that the "good works" referred to in vs 10 CANNOT in any way impact on our salvation, for good or for bad.

Our works, or lack of them, sin, or lack of sin do not affect our salvation!
Period!
However, our daily walk with God is MASSIVELY affected by whether we sin, whether we confess our sins, whether we are obedient to God in following His lead, as mediated by the Holy Spirit.
It is in this context that John's exhortations in 1 John 1 should be interpreted.

For LoveGodForever: perhaps you are all over this, and, so to speak, what I have shared is "preaching to the choir" but I do know that there are plenty who are confused about salvation, assurance of salvation, and our status before God as believers. The reality of sin, and sin in our lives, inextricably weaves it way through all these issues.


AMEN and I fully agree......
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Are you sure you're not a member of the media? You just keep spewing lies till folks believe them.

While nobody against you has slammed you, you have an ability to magnify the issue to the point of warfare.

You will say whatever to turn the hearts of the masses.

Get a job at Foxx News.
Thanks for making my point.......

Originally Posted by dcontroversal
A new phrase to accompany cake takers.......what they spew is like fluff balls with no substance....