Not By Works
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lol, you are such a comedian. The real problem is in discernment. You are happy to label
everyone on the same criteria, without really knowing them or their faith.
Now what I find illuminating is the desire to defend position, like they are personal or attached
to oneself, rather than biblical insights into the truth.
As soon as you start accusing people of being evil or sinful or driven by spirits etc. you pass from
a theological discussion into personal abuse. At what point does this abuse not take you over
and turn into hatred, animosity, hurt and a desire to destroy people rather than love them?
I have seen anger expressed, a desire to say things that would get one banned, yet this is from
the Holy Spirit and not the flesh? The fruits of the Spirit are,
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. gal 5:22-23
So how is, walking in righteousness and finding Gods grace and love, overcoming sinful
behaviour, and the passions of the flesh, evil and sending people to hell or a terrible sin?
How is anything to do with cake taking or fluff ball related to this?
Are you growing in maturity or deeper into animosity?
I know what you are likely to respond, but my friend and I hope brother in Christ,
you take time to consider that this animosity is not taking over your heart.
everyone on the same criteria, without really knowing them or their faith.
Now what I find illuminating is the desire to defend position, like they are personal or attached
to oneself, rather than biblical insights into the truth.
As soon as you start accusing people of being evil or sinful or driven by spirits etc. you pass from
a theological discussion into personal abuse. At what point does this abuse not take you over
and turn into hatred, animosity, hurt and a desire to destroy people rather than love them?
I have seen anger expressed, a desire to say things that would get one banned, yet this is from
the Holy Spirit and not the flesh? The fruits of the Spirit are,
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. gal 5:22-23
So how is, walking in righteousness and finding Gods grace and love, overcoming sinful
behaviour, and the passions of the flesh, evil and sending people to hell or a terrible sin?
How is anything to do with cake taking or fluff ball related to this?
Are you growing in maturity or deeper into animosity?
I know what you are likely to respond, but my friend and I hope brother in Christ,
you take time to consider that this animosity is not taking over your heart.
A
Neither...you could read my previous post and see that I have said God gives us the power to overcome sin.
My point is that no one is truly "sinless", except Jesus. We have been washed clean and made "blameless".
Blameless has the same meaning you are trying to convey and has the added benifit of being in the Bible.
You will notice the righteous people in the Bible are called blameless, not sinless.
Only person in the Bible called sinless is Jesus.
My point is that no one is truly "sinless", except Jesus. We have been washed clean and made "blameless".
Blameless has the same meaning you are trying to convey and has the added benifit of being in the Bible.
You will notice the righteous people in the Bible are called blameless, not sinless.
Only person in the Bible called sinless is Jesus.
There is a syndrome that people have when kidnapped, that they take on the identity and outlook
of their captors. If a salesman comes to your door with the idea of selling anything, the number one
idea is to emotionally identify with you, so that you trust them. They then switch to the subject of
the thing they are selling and treat any criticism as a personal attack.
Now the way you counter act this effect is just shine a light on what is going on.
Cults do this. The way they work is to absorb you into the group by emotional bonding and then you
just accept the ideas you are being given without any objective critical discussion. This is how you
get absorbed, and find you believe the craziest ideas without even realising you have been conned.
So for me the biggest idea is future sin forgiven. It sounds plausible in the theoretical sense, but
actually denies free will, sinful rebellion and reconciliation to God, repentance and faith.
of their captors. If a salesman comes to your door with the idea of selling anything, the number one
idea is to emotionally identify with you, so that you trust them. They then switch to the subject of
the thing they are selling and treat any criticism as a personal attack.
Now the way you counter act this effect is just shine a light on what is going on.
Cults do this. The way they work is to absorb you into the group by emotional bonding and then you
just accept the ideas you are being given without any objective critical discussion. This is how you
get absorbed, and find you believe the craziest ideas without even realising you have been conned.
So for me the biggest idea is future sin forgiven. It sounds plausible in the theoretical sense, but
actually denies free will, sinful rebellion and reconciliation to God, repentance and faith.
A
"Preaching to the choir" means he knows you might already know this but it might be useful for those whom God brings to this thread and reads it.
It's nice to have a conversation with our siblings without vitriol, false accusations and hurt feelings.
I hope you realise my post was a suggestion that blameless was a better word to use than sinless.
I understood your point. Did you get mine?
It's nice to have a conversation with our siblings without vitriol, false accusations and hurt feelings.
I hope you realise my post was a suggestion that blameless was a better word to use than sinless.
I understood your point. Did you get mine?
A
Alright PeterJens when you find this "group" point them out to me..,i know WOF folks fall into it but most on this thread don't qualify. WHY aren't you talking to the folks that do?
. 1. Future sins are forgiven by the cross....in that the cross is in the past and anything we do now is in the future but still the cross is strong enough to forgive our "future" sins.
2. Everyone I have spoken to in this thread believe repentance and confession is needed. G777 spills about "change of mind" but eventually you get him to say the same message even if he uses funky words to do it.
3. Your sermon on the mount thread? Haven't read it in a while. Folks will reject that it's needed for salvation, but you will find that most aren't "lawless" as you accuse them of being. They believe in the law written upon the heart.
. 1. Future sins are forgiven by the cross....in that the cross is in the past and anything we do now is in the future but still the cross is strong enough to forgive our "future" sins.
2. Everyone I have spoken to in this thread believe repentance and confession is needed. G777 spills about "change of mind" but eventually you get him to say the same message even if he uses funky words to do it.
3. Your sermon on the mount thread? Haven't read it in a while. Folks will reject that it's needed for salvation, but you will find that most aren't "lawless" as you accuse them of being. They believe in the law written upon the heart.
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How does a christian grow? By God's power, not ours.
1Cor 3:1 But I, brothers,[SUP]a[/SUP] could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?5What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.
Heavy statement there.
Now, looking at the flip side, who gives growth to evil?
Most folks say Satan is a polar opposite of God, but..... he copies just about everything God does.
Jesus says "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God."
Who "blesses" the warmakers? Who magnifies the arguments? Who wants conflict?
Be sure of this, that as soon as God's children quits feeding the evil, the argument shall cease, & Satan will have no "glory".
In some cases, silence is the greatest weapon of all. It will bring an argument down when nothing else will.
1Cor 3:1 But I, brothers,[SUP]a[/SUP] could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?5What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. 6I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.
Heavy statement there.
Now, looking at the flip side, who gives growth to evil?
Most folks say Satan is a polar opposite of God, but..... he copies just about everything God does.
Jesus says "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God."
Who "blesses" the warmakers? Who magnifies the arguments? Who wants conflict?
Be sure of this, that as soon as God's children quits feeding the evil, the argument shall cease, & Satan will have no "glory".
In some cases, silence is the greatest weapon of all. It will bring an argument down when nothing else will.
A
Your issue is you believe that people are teaching a license to sin when you hear the terms "eternal security."
However that is not what's being said.
Basically it's the concept that no matter how dirty and how far you fall into the pigpen, God will always welcome you home with open arms.
That will send messages to warn you when you wander the wrong way and shine a light to call you back home.
The theological point is that you can never fall so deep into sin that God can't reach down and save you.
Should you toss yourself off the cliff of sin and debauchery and rely on God's promise to save you?
Jesus told Satan "do not tempt the Lord God"
When people sin, it grieves the Holy Spirit and God may just let the person die.
He is not required to save everyone.
Some people may think they are "elect" and can sin and live however they want. God tells us those people are not "elect" and are destined to hell because GOD CHASTENS ALL HIS CHILDREN.
If someone is not being convicted of their sins, they are probably not God's child.
However that is not what's being said.
Basically it's the concept that no matter how dirty and how far you fall into the pigpen, God will always welcome you home with open arms.
That will send messages to warn you when you wander the wrong way and shine a light to call you back home.
The theological point is that you can never fall so deep into sin that God can't reach down and save you.
Should you toss yourself off the cliff of sin and debauchery and rely on God's promise to save you?
Jesus told Satan "do not tempt the Lord God"
When people sin, it grieves the Holy Spirit and God may just let the person die.
He is not required to save everyone.
Some people may think they are "elect" and can sin and live however they want. God tells us those people are not "elect" and are destined to hell because GOD CHASTENS ALL HIS CHILDREN.
If someone is not being convicted of their sins, they are probably not God's child.
A
I have to get over myself?
Hold up the mirror PeterJens.
It is YOU that is taking this personal.
If someone told me I was teaching legalism and sending people to hell, i would probably be offended too.
If I was unable to communicate and get my brothers and sisters to understand what I was saying, I would be frustrated as well.
But all you are doing is creating false strawmen and claiming people are teaching that people promote sin.
When it's really YOUR issues and misunderstanding of what is being said that you are continuing to post.
Here I will underline your words to help you see how this issue is really a personal one you have taken hold of.
Hold up the mirror PeterJens.
It is YOU that is taking this personal.
If someone told me I was teaching legalism and sending people to hell, i would probably be offended too.
If I was unable to communicate and get my brothers and sisters to understand what I was saying, I would be frustrated as well.
But all you are doing is creating false strawmen and claiming people are teaching that people promote sin.
When it's really YOUR issues and misunderstanding of what is being said that you are continuing to post.
Here I will underline your words to help you see how this issue is really a personal one you have taken hold of.
The doctrine of future sins forgiven, is the concept between now and eternity all the
sinful acts you will perform are forgiven now in the present, at the point of coming to
faith in Christ. The dependency on forgiveness in present time is faith and repentance.
So yes the cross forgives all sin repentented of in the present tense so is future sin forgiven
from when the act of sacrifice in time was made. But this is not our future sin forgiven as
until it is done it does not exist, so cannot be forgiven, and in faith will never happen.
But out of these future sin forgiven concept comes a lot of heresy and evil.
Repentance and confession of sin is the common experience of most, which is interesting
compare to often the declarations about changing ones mind. Those who talked most
strongly about no need for specific repentance of specific sins seems to a left or gone
silent. A lot did express repentance of sin was a one off event at conversion and not specific,
but how truthful that is you are casting doubt on. I would hope people now accept biblical
repentance, but I have previously found to my shock a lot did not.
Maybe the argument is being won, the Holy Spirit is convicting people in regard to the truth.
All I can say is what people have expressed in the past.
To me if everyone accepts the sermon on the mount as Christs eternal words, amen.
What I do know is when you put these points up to vote the vote got split 50/50.
So I do have little confidence in you proclamations. I do wonder why you make them, as
you are not the final authority or judge of what can and cannot be expressed lol.
And as far as identifying groups, that is irrelevant, because they exist, how people feel
wedded to them is a different question. But you regard raising these points as lying.
I call that delusion, and denying what people have openly expressed in the past.
You want so badly that people conform to your views, you project them everywhere, even
when clearly they are just trying to keep you happy, lol.
sinful acts you will perform are forgiven now in the present, at the point of coming to
faith in Christ. The dependency on forgiveness in present time is faith and repentance.
So yes the cross forgives all sin repentented of in the present tense so is future sin forgiven
from when the act of sacrifice in time was made. But this is not our future sin forgiven as
until it is done it does not exist, so cannot be forgiven, and in faith will never happen.
But out of these future sin forgiven concept comes a lot of heresy and evil.
Repentance and confession of sin is the common experience of most, which is interesting
compare to often the declarations about changing ones mind. Those who talked most
strongly about no need for specific repentance of specific sins seems to a left or gone
silent. A lot did express repentance of sin was a one off event at conversion and not specific,
but how truthful that is you are casting doubt on. I would hope people now accept biblical
repentance, but I have previously found to my shock a lot did not.
Maybe the argument is being won, the Holy Spirit is convicting people in regard to the truth.
All I can say is what people have expressed in the past.
To me if everyone accepts the sermon on the mount as Christs eternal words, amen.
What I do know is when you put these points up to vote the vote got split 50/50.
So I do have little confidence in you proclamations. I do wonder why you make them, as
you are not the final authority or judge of what can and cannot be expressed lol.
And as far as identifying groups, that is irrelevant, because they exist, how people feel
wedded to them is a different question. But you regard raising these points as lying.
I call that delusion, and denying what people have openly expressed in the past.
You want so badly that people conform to your views, you project them everywhere, even
when clearly they are just trying to keep you happy, lol.
