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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hebrews come from Eber. Not sure which bible states this. Might be the Amplified. And I dont' really think it is important. Just something I noted in my reading once.

yes that is where the term came from,, Abraham was not the first..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It is long understood and taught that this passage of scripture presents a hypothetical impossibility. It is impossible for those who have been saved to fall away from grace. The reason is that it is impossible for such a one to be renewed to grace as that would put Christ to open shame.

Those who teach loss of salvation are loathe to teach that one cannot repent and be restored but that is what the verse teaches.

The problem is that it also places this passage in conflict with other passages teaching the security of the believer. Romans 8:1 is just such a verse and Eph 4:30.

How could a believer ever experience the peace of God if they knew they could become lost and never able to repent again?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
amen, If is used in a few ways, not only in english but all through the bible.

If, and they will

If, maybe they will maybe they will not

If But they can not.

hebrews is talking about one of those uses

If they fall away (if they could) they could not be renewed (They could never be re-saved)

Putting christ to open shame is because it claims christ did not pay for a particular sin, Has to come back down to earth, and die again so those people can have their savation renewed.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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What you got here is not one that is backsliding, but one that denounces God after knowing him and sharing in the heavenly gifts. Such a one was Satan, who cannot repent ever again, but is doomed because he turned against God after having all the blessings. likewise with the believer, but the bible does not mention such a person that have done this kind of thing. not that I know of. if so, then let me know.
 
May 12, 2017
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How could a believer ever experience the peace of God if they knew they could become lost and never able to repent again?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Because Peace with God is far different than the Peace of God.

Someone does not become lost and then never repent again....

Someone does fall away from the faith due to the lust of the flesh, lust of of the eyes, and the pride of life.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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It is long understood and taught that this passage of scripture presents a hypothetical impossibility. It is impossible for those who have been saved to fall away from grace. The reason is that it is impossible for such a one to be renewed to grace as that would put Christ to open shame.

Those who teach loss of salvation are loathe to teach that one cannot repent and be restored but that is what the verse teaches.

The problem is that it also places this passage in conflict with other passages teaching the security of the believer. Romans 8:1 is just such a verse and Eph 4:30.

How could a believer ever experience the peace of God if they knew they could become lost and never able to repent again?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Uuummm..... no it isn't.

If you guys refuse the multiple commentaries that all agree that this is literally talking about christians losing their salvation, that's not my fault.

You ought to read some good commentaries.....

Also, it makes no sense at all that folks with no certifications whatsoever can boast that they know more than those that spent their whole lives in Biblical studies, learned both Hebrew & Greek, spent 8-16 years in university training & wrote commentaries on the scriptures.:rolleyes:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Uuummm..... no it isn't.

If you guys refuse the multiple commentaries that all agree that this is literally talking about christians losing their salvation, that's not my fault.

You ought to read some good commentaries.....

Also, it makes no sense at all that folks with no certifications whatsoever can boast that they know more than those that spent their whole lives in Biblical studies, learned both Hebrew & Greek, spent 8-16 years in university training & wrote commentaries on the scriptures.:rolleyes:

or maybe we should stop being like you and a follower of men, And start to study to show ourselves approved, a workman who needs not to be ashamed, or taught.

A commentary is a useful tool, But we should never think any commentator has everything right

As you were asked, How can you use a passage to say one can lose salvation, when the passage strickly says, if you lose it, you can not get it back.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[g] has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
"; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Deut 8:3

Are you talking about the Bible?

So man learned to write the spoken word all by his lonesome without the assistance of the Holy Ghost, I guess he used his wisdom and understanding?

The Bible says the LORD taught Moses how to write, after all it is written that the two tables that Moses that contained the 10 commandments, the law and the testimony were by the finger of God.

So what was the process which pictures and symbols became written spoken words, I mean there has to be process which which the spoken word begins to become the written word, while there might be a number of different possibilities the fact remains that nobody that reads this learned to read the written without being taught by someone who knew how to read. Then who taught the first person to read and who wrote the book that they used to learn how to read?

It will add up if one knows the 10 Commandments, you know the ones that begin with Hear 0 Israel, The LORD our God is one LORD and I guess you can figure out the other 9 by yourself.
 
May 12, 2017
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or maybe we should stop being like you and a follower of men, And start to study to show ourselves approved, a workman who needs not to be ashamed, or taught.

A commentary is a useful tool, But we should never think any commentator has everything right

As you were asked, How can you use a passage to say one can lose salvation, when the passage strickly says, if you lose it, you can not get it back.
Paul not only had revelation knowledge from Jesus and the Holy Spirit but was educated as well.

Class warfare like this speaks to insecurity with people of all levels of Bible knowledge.

You may have not been led by God to get formal Bible School education, but you should not minimize others that have by sounding arrogant that you don't need to be taught anything. Impartation from others is Biblical and real.

Yes the Holy Spirit is the best teacher, but i know way too many fools out there proclaiming they do show themselves approved a workman not ashamed or need to be taught anything and they have damaged people forever.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Paul not only had revelation knowledge from Jesus and the Holy Spirit but was educated as well.

Class warfare like this speaks to insecurity with people of all levels of Bible knowledge.

You may have not been led by God to get formal Bible School education, but you should not minimize others that have by sounding arrogant that you don't need to be taught anything. Impartation from others is Biblical and real.

Yes the Holy Spirit is the best teacher, but i know way too many fools out there proclaiming they do show themselves approved a workman not ashamed or need to be taught anything and they have damaged people forever.
Hey bro, All I said is basically we should not put all our eggs in one basket.

and again, it was a response to Stephens post about us following wrong commentators.. I just said we should never fully trust any.

God will not allow us an in if we followed the wrong person, He will judge us if we did because we did not test the spirit to see f they spoke Gods truth or not.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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ok everyone, I lnow this person does not get it (we can pray)

The postor says this is a foolish thing, this is not a one time event, you must EARN the right to get these things, When God says otherwise, He calls jesus a liar. Lets all pray he wakes up, and finds Gods truth. Because there is hope for us all.
EG - :) You cannot accept I both get it and am not saying what you claim I am saying.

Why do you build straw men and then burn them? Why do you lie about what I write?

Now we have to stay in faith with Christ, abide in Him.
When you are growing in your mothers womb, can you leave and stay alive?
Is this growth a one off event, you are conceived and you are a fully grown human?

No you have to abide in your mother until the right time and be born.
You must then stay with the family under their protection until you grow old enough
to be mature.

And you are saying Jesus does not tell us these things?

I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
John 15:5

You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Gal 6:8

Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
James 3:8

Our walk is a walk of many events, much testing and proving the foundation of
life in our hearts as it grows and develops.

Now easy believism followers think they have it all by going through a special event,
and they have arrived.

It is like thinking that winning the world championships in the 100 meters is just turning
up to one race and running it. That is all you need to do.

If we are talking adding a bauble of religion on to your activities, that is exactly what
religion and token faith is, but walking with Jesus is entering eternity and growing in
the Kingdom of the Living God.

Now some will stay in their delusion, imagining the painting themselves with some group
allegiance is entering heaven, but the testimony of both their behaviour and confession
of sin which does not change day in day out, shows the level of victory or not they
actually have.

It is like an alcoholic saying they are now completely dry, except for the drink they have
in the morning, afternoon and night, every day of every year since they can remember.
And they will weep and moan at this struggle, and say they are just being honest, and
everyone else is just like them, yet they are falling apart and dying while they speak.

Paul describes the walk of a believer like this

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
2 Cor 3:18

Are you living in the glory of Christ, rejoicing at His blessing of your life as you walk
in His ways or are you needing fellowship and being lifted up, to have a helping hand
in your life?

It is in Christ we have the victory
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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Uuummm..... no it isn't.

If you guys refuse the multiple commentaries that all agree that this is literally talking about christians losing their salvation, that's not my fault.

You ought to read some good commentaries.....

Also, it makes no sense at all that folks with no certifications whatsoever can boast that they know more than those that spent their whole lives in Biblical studies, learned both Hebrew & Greek, spent 8-16 years in university training & wrote commentaries on the scriptures.:rolleyes:
I didn't know Joel Olsteen wrote commentaries. Did you help him write it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG - :) You cannot accept I both get it and am not saying what you claim I am saying.

Why do you build straw men and then burn them? Why do you lie about what I write?
Originally Posted by PeterJens


Ok guys. There is a difference between a one off event, eating the bread of the new
covenant, and abiding in the bread of the new covenant through ones life and into heaven.

This person should know better, His lies are always easily shown..

What is said is that more people do not start to call him out on his sinful ways.. It may start to get into his head that no one sees past his lies, and may help him to start seeing his lies himself.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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or maybe we should stop being like you and a follower of men, And start to study to show ourselves approved, a workman who needs not to be ashamed, or taught.

A commentary is a useful tool, But we should never think any commentator has everything right

As you were asked, How can you use a passage to say one can lose salvation, when the passage strickly says, if you lose it, you can not get it back.
Deuteronomy 19:15
New American Standard Bible
"A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.

Matthew 18:16
New American Standard Bible
"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

2 Corinthians 13:1
New American Standard Bible
This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.


You can't get much better confirmation than the agreement of 3-4 accomplished theologians from different denominations all saying the same thing!

Besides, In all your years here, your accuracy has been less than 50%, G777's less than 20%, & MMdan's less than 40%.

Yet all three of you say you can do it better on your own..... riiight.

I'd have better odds at the lottery than you three.
:rolleyes:
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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Are you living in the glory of Christ, rejoicing at His blessing of your life as you walk
in His ways or are you needing fellowship and being lifted up, to have a helping hand
in your life?

It is in Christ we have the victory
This is awesome words.

No laws needed in the glory.

Does the glory need to be defined?
 
Aug 15, 2009
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I didn't know Joel Olsteen wrote commentaries. Did you help him write it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
So, when you have nothing factual to say, you resort to maliciousness & mocking?

You're just like the rest of those easy believists
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Deuteronomy 19:15
New American Standard Bible
"A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.

Matthew 18:16
New American Standard Bible
"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

2 Corinthians 13:1
New American Standard Bible
This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.


You can't get much better confirmation than the agreement of 3-4 accomplished theologians from different denominations all saying the same thing!

Besides, In all your years here, your accuracy has been less than 50%, G777's less than 20%, & MMdan's less than 40%.

Yet all three of you say you can do it better on your own..... riiight.

I'd have better odds at the lottery than you three.
:rolleyes:
Do you even get it stephen? I know you can not be that so far out of touch that you can not just see what you did. You are one of the people in here who continually make posts which are just as applicable to you as they are anyone else. most of the time more so.

You may have 3 or more theologians that agree with you, they may have years of college, degrees of study in hebrew and greek, but guess what,

But there are 3 or more theologans that agree with the other side too. You say no? Well you would be wrong, Because i have read them,

According to your argument, Both sides could claim to be talking for God and be correct.

So you need to do better than just say this, and use this faulty argument to support your words, Because they support the people your against just as much as they do you.

All you are doing is speaking for listening to men blindly, and not testing what they say, just because they went to college, they got degrees in greek and hebrew, and 3 or more of them agree.

Thats dangerous.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,557
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Partakers describes one who shares with someone else as an associate. It speaks of those who are participators in something. Participating in. Accomplice in. Comrade. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews in the context of believers (Hebrews 3:14 - "For we have become partakers of Christ") and thus the statement that the readers have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit seems "at first glance" to be support that genuine believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the Holy Spirit indwelling believers.

It's very plausible to envision an individual becoming a sharer in or partaker of the Holy Spirit (His pre-salvation ministry - convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come) by temporarily responding to His drawing power intended to lead sinners to Christ. The translation "shared" implies something done in company with others and before salvation all believers shared in the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit Who drew them to salvation, yet these Hebrews are still at a crossroad by merely tasting and not yet drinking into one Spirit.

*Note also that the writer of Hebrews does not state that these individuals "received the gift of the Holy Spirit," or were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or were "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or were "possessors of the Holy Spirit's pledge (guarantee) of future inheritance."

You added the words "saved" and "from salvation" in your personal commentary above, but those words are not found in the text. In regards to "restore them again to repentance," the wording alone does not specify whether the previous repentance was merely outward or whether it was genuine repentance that was accompanied by saving faith in Christ. Restore them again to "salvation" would be a definitive statement, but it's not in the text. Tasting is still not drinking. *Christians drink into one Spirit and do not merely taste into one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13).

Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and permanently falling away do not accompany salvation.

I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." *NOWHERE does the Bible use the words "lost salvation." I accept the truth that God preserves His saints forever (Psalm 37:28) and that whom God justified, these He also glorified (Romans 8:30) and that believers are sealed in Him (Christ) until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30). :)
Thank you for saving me the effort to address the point in such a great way! I don't understand WHY they so desperately want to cling to, and believe, that their Father in Heaven, (if they are indeed saved) would disown them as children, and negate the blood of His Son!

It's like they don't WANT salvation if it means they can't work for it. It's crazy!
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Do you even get it stephen? I know you can not be that so far out of touch that you can not just see what you did. You are one of the people in here who continually make posts which are just as applicable to you as they are anyone else. most of the time more so.

You may have 3 or more theologians that agree with you, they may have years of college, degrees of study in hebrew and greek, but guess what,

But there are 3 or more theologans that agree with the other side too. You say no? Well you would be wrong, Because i have read them,

According to your argument, Both sides could claim to be talking for God and be correct.

So you need to do better than just say this, and use this faulty argument to support your words, Because they support the people your against just as much as they do you.

All you are doing is speaking for listening to men blindly, and not testing what they say, just because they went to college, they got degrees in greek and hebrew, and 3 or more of them agree.

Thats dangerous.
I've never seen you quoting a commentary..... maybe that's because none of them agree with you.

Come to think of it, don't remember you using a lexicon either.

I use commentaries, Bible dictionaries, lexicons, interlinear Bibles, & concordances. I've quoted them often.

It's easy to trust them when they almost always agree.

You on the other hand..... I wouldn't trust you no further than I could throw you.

What's dangerous is thinking you don't need them.
:rolleyes:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
So, when you have nothing factual to say, you resort to maliciousness & mocking?

You're just like the rest of those easy believists
You and those like you prove just how hard it is to believe,, Yet you claim it is easy..SMH
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Thank you for saving me the effort to address the point in such a great way! I don't understand WHY they so desperately want to cling to, and believe, that their Father in Heaven, (if they are indeed saved) would disown them as children, and negate the blood of His Son!

It's like they don't WANT salvation if it means they can't work for it. It's crazy!
I think it's offensive & malicious to make claims of what I believe..... that's judging.

I believe we can lose our salvation because it's true, in spite of what hundreds of easy believists say.