Not By Works
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E
amen, If is used in a few ways, not only in english but all through the bible.
If, and they will
If, maybe they will maybe they will not
If But they can not.
hebrews is talking about one of those uses
If they fall away (if they could) they could not be renewed (They could never be re-saved)
Putting christ to open shame is because it claims christ did not pay for a particular sin, Has to come back down to earth, and die again so those people can have their savation renewed.
If, and they will
If, maybe they will maybe they will not
If But they can not.
hebrews is talking about one of those uses
If they fall away (if they could) they could not be renewed (They could never be re-saved)
Putting christ to open shame is because it claims christ did not pay for a particular sin, Has to come back down to earth, and die again so those people can have their savation renewed.
What you got here is not one that is backsliding, but one that denounces God after knowing him and sharing in the heavenly gifts. Such a one was Satan, who cannot repent ever again, but is doomed because he turned against God after having all the blessings. likewise with the believer, but the bible does not mention such a person that have done this kind of thing. not that I know of. if so, then let me know.
Uuummm..... no it isn't.
If you guys refuse the multiple commentaries that all agree that this is literally talking about christians losing their salvation, that's not my fault.
You ought to read some good commentaries.....
Also, it makes no sense at all that folks with no certifications whatsoever can boast that they know more than those that spent their whole lives in Biblical studies, learned both Hebrew & Greek, spent 8-16 years in university training & wrote commentaries on the scriptures.
If you guys refuse the multiple commentaries that all agree that this is literally talking about christians losing their salvation, that's not my fault.
You ought to read some good commentaries.....
Also, it makes no sense at all that folks with no certifications whatsoever can boast that they know more than those that spent their whole lives in Biblical studies, learned both Hebrew & Greek, spent 8-16 years in university training & wrote commentaries on the scriptures.
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E
Uuummm..... no it isn't.
If you guys refuse the multiple commentaries that all agree that this is literally talking about christians losing their salvation, that's not my fault.
You ought to read some good commentaries.....
Also, it makes no sense at all that folks with no certifications whatsoever can boast that they know more than those that spent their whole lives in Biblical studies, learned both Hebrew & Greek, spent 8-16 years in university training & wrote commentaries on the scriptures.
If you guys refuse the multiple commentaries that all agree that this is literally talking about christians losing their salvation, that's not my fault.
You ought to read some good commentaries.....
Also, it makes no sense at all that folks with no certifications whatsoever can boast that they know more than those that spent their whole lives in Biblical studies, learned both Hebrew & Greek, spent 8-16 years in university training & wrote commentaries on the scriptures.
or maybe we should stop being like you and a follower of men, And start to study to show ourselves approved, a workman who needs not to be ashamed, or taught.
A commentary is a useful tool, But we should never think any commentator has everything right
As you were asked, How can you use a passage to say one can lose salvation, when the passage strickly says, if you lose it, you can not get it back.
"; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Deut 8:3
Are you talking about the Bible?
So man learned to write the spoken word all by his lonesome without the assistance of the Holy Ghost, I guess he used his wisdom and understanding?
The Bible says the LORD taught Moses how to write, after all it is written that the two tables that Moses that contained the 10 commandments, the law and the testimony were by the finger of God.
So what was the process which pictures and symbols became written spoken words, I mean there has to be process which which the spoken word begins to become the written word, while there might be a number of different possibilities the fact remains that nobody that reads this learned to read the written without being taught by someone who knew how to read. Then who taught the first person to read and who wrote the book that they used to learn how to read?
It will add up if one knows the 10 Commandments, you know the ones that begin with Hear 0 Israel, The LORD our God is one LORD and I guess you can figure out the other 9 by yourself.
Deut 8:3
Are you talking about the Bible?
So man learned to write the spoken word all by his lonesome without the assistance of the Holy Ghost, I guess he used his wisdom and understanding?
The Bible says the LORD taught Moses how to write, after all it is written that the two tables that Moses that contained the 10 commandments, the law and the testimony were by the finger of God.
So what was the process which pictures and symbols became written spoken words, I mean there has to be process which which the spoken word begins to become the written word, while there might be a number of different possibilities the fact remains that nobody that reads this learned to read the written without being taught by someone who knew how to read. Then who taught the first person to read and who wrote the book that they used to learn how to read?
It will add up if one knows the 10 Commandments, you know the ones that begin with Hear 0 Israel, The LORD our God is one LORD and I guess you can figure out the other 9 by yourself.
Paul not only had revelation knowledge from Jesus and the Holy Spirit but was educated as well.
Class warfare like this speaks to insecurity with people of all levels of Bible knowledge.
You may have not been led by God to get formal Bible School education, but you should not minimize others that have by sounding arrogant that you don't need to be taught anything. Impartation from others is Biblical and real.
Yes the Holy Spirit is the best teacher, but i know way too many fools out there proclaiming they do show themselves approved a workman not ashamed or need to be taught anything and they have damaged people forever.
Class warfare like this speaks to insecurity with people of all levels of Bible knowledge.
You may have not been led by God to get formal Bible School education, but you should not minimize others that have by sounding arrogant that you don't need to be taught anything. Impartation from others is Biblical and real.
Yes the Holy Spirit is the best teacher, but i know way too many fools out there proclaiming they do show themselves approved a workman not ashamed or need to be taught anything and they have damaged people forever.
E
Hey bro, All I said is basically we should not put all our eggs in one basket.
and again, it was a response to Stephens post about us following wrong commentators.. I just said we should never fully trust any.
God will not allow us an in if we followed the wrong person, He will judge us if we did because we did not test the spirit to see f they spoke Gods truth or not.
and again, it was a response to Stephens post about us following wrong commentators.. I just said we should never fully trust any.
God will not allow us an in if we followed the wrong person, He will judge us if we did because we did not test the spirit to see f they spoke Gods truth or not.
EG - You cannot accept I both get it and am not saying what you claim I am saying.
Why do you build straw men and then burn them? Why do you lie about what I write?
Now we have to stay in faith with Christ, abide in Him.
When you are growing in your mothers womb, can you leave and stay alive?
Is this growth a one off event, you are conceived and you are a fully grown human?
No you have to abide in your mother until the right time and be born.
You must then stay with the family under their protection until you grow old enough
to be mature.
And you are saying Jesus does not tell us these things?
I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
John 15:5
You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24
Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Gal 6:8
Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
James 3:8
Our walk is a walk of many events, much testing and proving the foundation of
life in our hearts as it grows and develops.
Now easy believism followers think they have it all by going through a special event,
and they have arrived.
It is like thinking that winning the world championships in the 100 meters is just turning
up to one race and running it. That is all you need to do.
If we are talking adding a bauble of religion on to your activities, that is exactly what
religion and token faith is, but walking with Jesus is entering eternity and growing in
the Kingdom of the Living God.
Now some will stay in their delusion, imagining the painting themselves with some group
allegiance is entering heaven, but the testimony of both their behaviour and confession
of sin which does not change day in day out, shows the level of victory or not they
actually have.
It is like an alcoholic saying they are now completely dry, except for the drink they have
in the morning, afternoon and night, every day of every year since they can remember.
And they will weep and moan at this struggle, and say they are just being honest, and
everyone else is just like them, yet they are falling apart and dying while they speak.
Paul describes the walk of a believer like this
And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
2 Cor 3:18
Are you living in the glory of Christ, rejoicing at His blessing of your life as you walk
in His ways or are you needing fellowship and being lifted up, to have a helping hand
in your life?
It is in Christ we have the victory
You cannot accept I both get it and am not saying what you claim I am saying.Why do you build straw men and then burn them? Why do you lie about what I write?
Now we have to stay in faith with Christ, abide in Him.
When you are growing in your mothers womb, can you leave and stay alive?
Is this growth a one off event, you are conceived and you are a fully grown human?
No you have to abide in your mother until the right time and be born.
You must then stay with the family under their protection until you grow old enough
to be mature.
And you are saying Jesus does not tell us these things?
I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
John 15:5
You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24
Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Gal 6:8
Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
James 3:8
Our walk is a walk of many events, much testing and proving the foundation of
life in our hearts as it grows and develops.
Now easy believism followers think they have it all by going through a special event,
and they have arrived.
It is like thinking that winning the world championships in the 100 meters is just turning
up to one race and running it. That is all you need to do.
If we are talking adding a bauble of religion on to your activities, that is exactly what
religion and token faith is, but walking with Jesus is entering eternity and growing in
the Kingdom of the Living God.
Now some will stay in their delusion, imagining the painting themselves with some group
allegiance is entering heaven, but the testimony of both their behaviour and confession
of sin which does not change day in day out, shows the level of victory or not they
actually have.
It is like an alcoholic saying they are now completely dry, except for the drink they have
in the morning, afternoon and night, every day of every year since they can remember.
And they will weep and moan at this struggle, and say they are just being honest, and
everyone else is just like them, yet they are falling apart and dying while they speak.
Paul describes the walk of a believer like this
And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
2 Cor 3:18
Are you living in the glory of Christ, rejoicing at His blessing of your life as you walk
in His ways or are you needing fellowship and being lifted up, to have a helping hand
in your life?
It is in Christ we have the victory
Uuummm..... no it isn't.
If you guys refuse the multiple commentaries that all agree that this is literally talking about christians losing their salvation, that's not my fault.
You ought to read some good commentaries.....
Also, it makes no sense at all that folks with no certifications whatsoever can boast that they know more than those that spent their whole lives in Biblical studies, learned both Hebrew & Greek, spent 8-16 years in university training & wrote commentaries on the scriptures.
If you guys refuse the multiple commentaries that all agree that this is literally talking about christians losing their salvation, that's not my fault.
You ought to read some good commentaries.....
Also, it makes no sense at all that folks with no certifications whatsoever can boast that they know more than those that spent their whole lives in Biblical studies, learned both Hebrew & Greek, spent 8-16 years in university training & wrote commentaries on the scriptures.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
EG - You cannot accept I both get it and am not saying what you claim I am saying.
Why do you build straw men and then burn them? Why do you lie about what I write?
You cannot accept I both get it and am not saying what you claim I am saying.Why do you build straw men and then burn them? Why do you lie about what I write?
Ok guys. There is a difference between a one off event, eating the bread of the new
covenant, and abiding in the bread of the new covenant through ones life and into heaven.
This person should know better, His lies are always easily shown..
What is said is that more people do not start to call him out on his sinful ways.. It may start to get into his head that no one sees past his lies, and may help him to start seeing his lies himself.
Deuteronomy 19:15
New American Standard Bible
"A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.
Matthew 18:16
New American Standard Bible
"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
2 Corinthians 13:1
New American Standard Bible
This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.
You can't get much better confirmation than the agreement of 3-4 accomplished theologians from different denominations all saying the same thing!
Besides, In all your years here, your accuracy has been less than 50%, G777's less than 20%, & MMdan's less than 40%.
Yet all three of you say you can do it better on your own..... riiight.
I'd have better odds at the lottery than you three.
E
Deuteronomy 19:15
New American Standard Bible
"A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.
Matthew 18:16
New American Standard Bible
"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
2 Corinthians 13:1
New American Standard Bible
This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES.
You can't get much better confirmation than the agreement of 3-4 accomplished theologians from different denominations all saying the same thing!
Besides, In all your years here, your accuracy has been less than 50%, G777's less than 20%, & MMdan's less than 40%.
Yet all three of you say you can do it better on your own..... riiight.
I'd have better odds at the lottery than you three.
You may have 3 or more theologians that agree with you, they may have years of college, degrees of study in hebrew and greek, but guess what,
But there are 3 or more theologans that agree with the other side too. You say no? Well you would be wrong, Because i have read them,
According to your argument, Both sides could claim to be talking for God and be correct.
So you need to do better than just say this, and use this faulty argument to support your words, Because they support the people your against just as much as they do you.
All you are doing is speaking for listening to men blindly, and not testing what they say, just because they went to college, they got degrees in greek and hebrew, and 3 or more of them agree.
Thats dangerous.
Partakers describes one who shares with someone else as an associate. It speaks of those who are participators in something. Participating in. Accomplice in. Comrade. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews in the context of believers (Hebrews 3:14 - "For we have become partakers of Christ") and thus the statement that the readers have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit seems "at first glance" to be support that genuine believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the Holy Spirit indwelling believers.
It's very plausible to envision an individual becoming a sharer in or partaker of the Holy Spirit (His pre-salvation ministry - convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come) by temporarily responding to His drawing power intended to lead sinners to Christ. The translation "shared" implies something done in company with others and before salvation all believers shared in the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit Who drew them to salvation, yet these Hebrews are still at a crossroad by merely tasting and not yet drinking into one Spirit.
*Note also that the writer of Hebrews does not state that these individuals "received the gift of the Holy Spirit," or were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or were "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or were "possessors of the Holy Spirit's pledge (guarantee) of future inheritance."
You added the words "saved" and "from salvation" in your personal commentary above, but those words are not found in the text. In regards to "restore them again to repentance," the wording alone does not specify whether the previous repentance was merely outward or whether it was genuine repentance that was accompanied by saving faith in Christ. Restore them again to "salvation" would be a definitive statement, but it's not in the text. Tasting is still not drinking. *Christians drink into one Spirit and do not merely taste into one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13).
Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and permanently falling away do not accompany salvation.
I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." *NOWHERE does the Bible use the words "lost salvation." I accept the truth that God preserves His saints forever (Psalm 37:28) and that whom God justified, these He also glorified (Romans 8:30) and that believers are sealed in Him (Christ) until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30).
It's very plausible to envision an individual becoming a sharer in or partaker of the Holy Spirit (His pre-salvation ministry - convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come) by temporarily responding to His drawing power intended to lead sinners to Christ. The translation "shared" implies something done in company with others and before salvation all believers shared in the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit Who drew them to salvation, yet these Hebrews are still at a crossroad by merely tasting and not yet drinking into one Spirit.
*Note also that the writer of Hebrews does not state that these individuals "received the gift of the Holy Spirit," or were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or were "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or were "possessors of the Holy Spirit's pledge (guarantee) of future inheritance."
You added the words "saved" and "from salvation" in your personal commentary above, but those words are not found in the text. In regards to "restore them again to repentance," the wording alone does not specify whether the previous repentance was merely outward or whether it was genuine repentance that was accompanied by saving faith in Christ. Restore them again to "salvation" would be a definitive statement, but it's not in the text. Tasting is still not drinking. *Christians drink into one Spirit and do not merely taste into one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13).
Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and permanently falling away do not accompany salvation.
I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." *NOWHERE does the Bible use the words "lost salvation." I accept the truth that God preserves His saints forever (Psalm 37:28) and that whom God justified, these He also glorified (Romans 8:30) and that believers are sealed in Him (Christ) until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30).
It's like they don't WANT salvation if it means they can't work for it. It's crazy!
I've never seen you quoting a commentary..... maybe that's because none of them agree with you.
Come to think of it, don't remember you using a lexicon either.
I use commentaries, Bible dictionaries, lexicons, interlinear Bibles, & concordances. I've quoted them often.
It's easy to trust them when they almost always agree.
You on the other hand..... I wouldn't trust you no further than I could throw you.
What's dangerous is thinking you don't need them.
Come to think of it, don't remember you using a lexicon either.
I use commentaries, Bible dictionaries, lexicons, interlinear Bibles, & concordances. I've quoted them often.
It's easy to trust them when they almost always agree.
You on the other hand..... I wouldn't trust you no further than I could throw you.
What's dangerous is thinking you don't need them.