Not By Works

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Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
My surgery is over and I am doing well. For those of you who sent up prayers, thank you so much. Will know about treatment in a couple of weeks.

My prayer for you with the red X on my post about my surgery, I will send up a prayer for you. Hope your health stays in good shape.
 
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However the scriptures say the ' church ' is the body of Christ which happens only by the Holy Spirit baptising us into the body ( Jew / gentile) Which ONLY began after acts 2 .
The Scriptures also refer to "the church that was in the wilderness" and undeniably place the pre-incarnate Christ there with them at the Exodus, according to 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 KJV. What do you do with that one?
Yes I've heard of the ' Church began since Adam doctrine ' .
"Prove all things". Sadly, the church is so littered with Jesuit inspired, sensationalist bulldookey today that the Protestant Reformers must be spinning in their graves.
 
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Is it a good idea to center your theology prior to the greatest events in the bible. The death, burial, resurrection, the giving of the Holy Spirit, the start of the body of christ ?
You just keep making my point about how man-centered your theology is, don't you? Our focus is to be on Christ Who was there at the Creation and all throughout the OT long before He was made flesh...but I guess if flesh is the filter through which you view Scripture, then all sorts of false doctrine are possible, right?
 
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Is it a good idea to take instruction not directed at you ? Isn't it also a mistake to take such teachings pick out similar sounding phrases and combine them in a wishy washy manner . Isnt God precise? does he stutter ? Eternal security is only a fact in the church age . What happens due to not rightly dividing is some go for the verses when you could lose salvation and apply them to the Church.
When you realize "all Scripture" is good for direction and instruction in righteousness, you'll understand that when Jesus taught the people to "abide in the Vine", His words didn't have an expiration date, but apply to all generations.
 
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i am not being obtuse.

i am calling you out for mis-representing what John 15 says.


you incorrectly state that " abide" means to " surrender".

in John 15, nowhere does the word surrender appear. nowhere.

so, you have mis-represented what John 15 says.
for the 2nd time, i call on you to correct your mistake.
Please, let's get two things straight that should have been evident from the beginning:
1) I know somewhat how to use a lexicon.
2) When I said "abide means to surrender", I wasn't trying to establish that "surrender" is a dictionary definition of the word, and assumed anyone reading that would immediately see that to be the case.

It should be as clear now as it should have been then that by saying "abide means to surrender", I meant "surrender" in concept: because all the definitions of the verb "abide" demand the surrender of our will to God's will in order to comply with Jesus' command to abide.

Understand now?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Please, let's get two things straight that should have been evident from the beginning:
1) I know somewhat how to use a lexicon.
2) When I said "abide means to surrender", I wasn't trying to establish that "surrender" is a dictionary definition of the word, and assumed anyone reading that would immediately see that to be the case.

It should be as clear now as it should have been then that by saying "abide means to surrender", I meant "surrender" in concept: because all the definitions of the verb "abide" demand the surrender of our will to God's will in order to comply with Jesus' command to abide.

Understand now?

yes, we are to surrender our wills to God's will for us.


that is a RESULT of salvation, not a cause , nor a maintainer.

i can speak to this personally, when i was 16- 26 years old, i believed in God, Jesus, etc.. the basics.
but, it had no bearing on my like, i knew what God expected, i just did not care.

when i came to Christ, i cared about these things, that is " surrender"

so, i see what you are saying.

i just think you are framing it to mean " surrender " means " salvation"

it does not.

faith and trust in Christ means salvation.

everything, and i ,mean everything else is a separate converstion.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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The Scriptures also refer to "the church that was in the wilderness" and undeniably place the pre-incarnate Christ there with them at the Exodus, according to 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 KJV. What do you do with that one?
"Prove all things". Sadly, the church is so littered with Jesuit inspired, sensationalist bulldookey today that the Protestant Reformers must be spinning in their graves.
'Church 'is a word . That word is found in various places . The body of christ ( Church) is the one im referring to . Things different are not the same .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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When you realize "all Scripture" is good for direction and instruction in righteousness, you'll understand that when Jesus taught the people to "abide in the Vine", His words didn't have an expiration date, but apply to all generations.
Did the command to Noah to build an Ark have a expiration date ?
 
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The dispie gimmick if taken to extremes can be potentially very very dangerous. LUCKILY most dispies are level headed guys. Its just a few cultists here and there. Especially the KJVonly guys tend to fall for this one
It's enough to make one's head explode....James was only for Jews, Romans was only to Roman, Jesus had nothing to say to Christians...yes, Christ had nothing to say to the very ones whose very namesake means "Christ follower".
 
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I agree about deadly consequences in following false dogma. I will continue to pray you will realize you cannot in your own human abilities keep yourself saved.
I appreciate your prayers and am well aware perfect obedience in thought, word, and practice cannot merit us even one foot off the ground when the saints rise to meet Jesus, as He plainly said in Luke 17:10 KLV:

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

That should put to rest your concerns. Now, to those who are trusting in a false OSAS License to Sin, I pray that you all will abandon this heresy, get on your knees and pray for Christ to come in and live out His obedient life in you, get up and put on the Armor of God, and fight the good fight of faith instead of cowering as defeated slaves to sin in Satan's prisoner of war camp.
 
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yes, we are to surrender our wills to God's will for us....that is a RESULT of salvation, not a cause , nor a maintainer.
Just as it's impossible for a woman to be both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time, it's impossible for one to be saved by God while simultaneously in rebellion to God. Repentance aka "change in mindset" aka "surrender" is the means by which salvation is obtained.

There is no Spiritual Switzerland!
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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I appreciate your prayers and am well aware perfect obedience in thought, word, and practice cannot merit us even one foot off the ground when the saints rise to meet Jesus, as He plainly said in Luke 17:10 KLV:

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

That should put to rest your concerns. Now, to those who are trusting in a false OSAS License to Sin, I pray that you all will abandon this heresy, get on your knees and pray for Christ to come in and live out His obedient life in you, get up and put on the Armor of God, and fight the good fight of faith instead of cowering as defeated slaves to sin in Satan's prisoner of war camp.
Don't forget foot washing.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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When you realize "all Scripture" is good for direction and instruction in righteousness, you'll understand that when Jesus taught the people to "abide in the Vine", His words didn't have an expiration date, but apply to all generations.
Which verse says that it applies to all generations? Like this verse
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. I bet you don't apply this one ,you dispensationalism follower you .
 
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'Church 'is a word .
"Body of Christ" is a concept.
That word is found in various places .
That concept is found in various places.
The body of christ ( Church) is the one im referring to .
The Church (those walking according to the will of God) is the concept I'm referring to.
Things different are not the same .
Concepts equal in substance and scope are not to be selectively applied here and their, but are applicable to all things and all people.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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"Body of Christ" is a concept.
That concept is found in various places.
The Church (those walking according to the will of God) is the concept I'm referring to.
Concepts equal in substance and scope are not to be selectively applied here and their, but are applicable to all things and all people.
I'm one of those crazies who believes what the bible actually says .
 
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Don't forget foot washing.
If Jesus commanded His people to take of the bread and cup after He commanded them to wash one another's feet as a sign of our humility in Him, His people ought to do so. The one is well known as "Communion" while the other is historically known as the "Ordinance of Humility".
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Whi
Just as it's impossible for a woman to be both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time, it's impossible for one to be saved by God while simultaneously in rebellion to God. Repentance aka "change in mindset" aka "surrender" is the means by which salvation is obtained.

There is no Spiritual Switzerland!
Why is it always ,everyone else is in danger apart from the person preaching fear through lordship salvation . Its never themselves?
 
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I'm one of those crazies who believes what the bible actually says .
I'm sure you sincerely do...just like Jehovah's Witnesses sincerely believe Christ being Michael the Archangel is nothing more than a created being, Catholics sincerely believe the Popes "hold upon this place (the throne of Peter in the Vatican) the place of God Almighty" and each is "Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under veil of flesh", Muslims sincerely believe blowing up infidels secures them 72 virgins.
 
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Why is it always ,everyone else is in danger apart from the person preaching fear through lordship salvation . Its never themselves?
I think you're confused about who's preaching fear...a surrendered relationship with God means peace with Him (Isaiah 27:5 KJV) and a delight to do His commandments (Psalms 40:8 KJV), while the hard way of the transgressor produces fear of consequences and the subsequent manufacture of a false OSAS License to Sin.

BTW, the crowd has never been right. In Noah's day, the crowd drowned. In Lot's day, the crowd burned up. In Jesus' day, the crowd shouted, "crucify Him, crucify Him." During the Dark Ages, the crowd killed 150 MILLION faithful Christians. And today, the crowd is still nailing Him to the Cross (Hebrews 6:6 KJV) through disobedience to His commandments.