Obedience, Oh No!

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Noose

Senior Member
#41
Apr 18, 2016
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#41
JaumeJ said:
Have you not understood when it is written the Law and the Prophets point to Jesus Christ?

Were anyi to learn from Jesus Christ directly they would know not to teach disobedience at any level for disobedience to God is the same as idolatry....
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Matt 11:13 For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

Matt 5: 17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not cometo abolish them, but to fulfill them.

Something to be fulfilled and is prophesied is a prophesy. We are not required to keep prophesies but fulfill them.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#42
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#42
John is the last Old Testament Prophet.......this is what is being said, otherwise the Gospels, the Epistles and revelation would have no value in prophecy. Please, if you are going to converse with people, be accurte, share in love and do not fault others.

This is not a contest of gladiators in some arena.

AÇs for your second quote, go back and read further........Jesus teaches the law is not abolishe.....and learn what He is saying about completing and/or fulfilling them. Even Paul writes in Romans that our faith establishes the law, yet no one seems to understand this.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#43
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#43
JaumeJ said:
John is the last Old Testament Prophet.......this is what is being said, otherwise the Gospels, the Epistles and revelation would have no value in prophecy. Please, if you are going to converse with people, be accurte, share in love and do not fault others.

This is not a contest of gladiators in some arena.

AÇs for your second quote, go back and read further........Jesus teaches the law is not abolishe.....and learn what He is saying about completing and/or fulfilling them. Even Paul writes in Romans that our faith establishes the law, yet no one seems to understand this.
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Faulting others is sharing in love, but this depends fully on how the recipient sees it.

John is not an old testament prophet.

All prophesy was up to John, from John there is only interpretation of prophesy (which can also be called prophesy)

Paul also says, in the presences of Love, prophesy ceases- Jesus brings this love and it is love that fulfills all the law (prophesy).

Things that are to be fulfilled can not be kept.

If you are going to converse with people, be accurte
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#44
#44
JaumeJ said:
It is obvious you are not reading my posting, or simply not understanding tht the bottom line is to learn obedience from Jesus Christ as He teaches us.

You have been very quick though, to through a lot of people together in the same bag to suit your liking.

Had you understood my posts you would know I have said repeatedly we are saved by grace never by our own efforts. YOu have not read my posts fully it seems

Now you cannot gain anything by obeying God only, but you certainly can lose everything by practicing disobedience.......learn the difference.
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You state nothing can be gained by obeying the Law but everything can be lost by not obeying.

Are you stating that salvation can be lost if one does not obey the Law?

Do you keep the Sabbath 100% as required in the Law?

Do you not understand that to violate one part of the Law is to violate Law?

Do you not understand that no man other than Jesus has ever kept the Law?


Do you not understand that you, me nor anyone else keeps the Law.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#45
#45
Ralph- said:
Don't you believe that 'do not murder' is required to be kept?



It is the church at large that is guilty of this charge, not our Messianic brethren.

The argument is constantly being made by the church that no one can keep the law, therefore, God did away with it so we do not have to keep the law anymore in this New Covenant, except for 'love your neighbor as yourself'.



Then the church is in violation of the law since it has decided that the only part of the law it has to keep is 'love your neighbor as yourself'.




The laws governing the sacrifice of animals for the forgiveness of sin are no longer required. This is exactly what the church believes. So is the church being like the Pharisees?
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Wow! Your ignorance of Bible truth is greater than I first thought.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#46
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
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#46
Noose said:
Faulting others is sharing in love, but this depends fully on how the recipient sees it.

John is not an old testament prophet.

All prophesy was up to John, from John there is only interpretation of prophesy (which can also be called prophesy)

Paul also says, in the presences of Love, prophesy ceases- Jesus brings this love and it is love that fulfills all the law (prophesy).

Things that are to be fulfilled can not be kept.

If you are going to converse with people, be accurte
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Are you being sincere?

Everyone knows John IS THE LAST OF THE ot PROPHETS WHO FORETELLS Jesus AND his gospel TO COME.
As for completing an or fulfilling, Jesus gave Moses the Law, and Jesus came to finish the Lw, that is to complete it. He teaches us all how to acknowledge it.

No man is saved by the law, but all should obey. We are saved by grce. Now if yo come back with more of your "love," and you have not changed your way, I suggest you go, learn from Jesus,, and come back and tell all the law is abolished or it is completed.

Even you have poste Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to complete. Learn what He is teaching here, and continue and learn that the law is not abolished........
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#47
Oct 11, 2017
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#47
SpoonJuly said:
To violate one part, any part of the Law is to violate the Law. What is so difficult to understand about that fact.
To pick and choose or change, is not allowed. That is what the Pharisees were doing.

We are to strive to keep the commandments of Christ, not the Law of Moses.
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I understand that if I don't kill people, but I lie or them or steal from them I am still guilty of sin. Is this not true in your religion?

I also understand that the Pharisees were still relying on the Levitical Priesthood and it's Sacrificial "Works of the Law" for atonement of sins even after their Messiah had shed His Blood as Prophesied.

In your religion, if I Love my neighbor as myself as the Law Commands, but I don't bring a goat to a Levite as the Law also commands, am I still guilty? Or did Jesus becoming my High Priest change the Priesthood?

In your religion, exactly what Laws did Moses create? It is my understanding that Jesus, as the Word of God, created His Law. Do you follow this same Jesus? Or is there another who didn't create "all things"?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
#48
SpoonJuly said:
What I see in JJ's post and all others who constantly speak of keeping the Law, is not that we are to strive to keep the Law, but that it is required. But they are very quick to eliminate those parts that they can not keep.
As I stated before, the Law is the Law and you either keep every part or you violate the Law.
To state as JJ did that some parts are no longer required is nothing more than doing as the Pharisees did.
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Amen, modern day phariseeism, or as some call it jewish roots at its finest,

Water down the law to a point where you CAN keep it, then demand everyone should follow you, and when confronted, say they teach what jesus teaches.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#49
#49
SpoonJuly said:
To violate one part, any part of the Law is to violate the Law. What is so difficult to understand about that fact.
To pick and choose or change, is not allowed. That is what the Pharisees were doing.

We are to strive to keep the commandments of Christ, not the Law of Moses.
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Amen, whoever shall keep all the law yet break it in one point is guilty of the WHOLE LAW. Not the water down law of the jewish roots people. ALL means ALL!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#50
#50
JaumeJ said:
It is obvious you are not reading my posting, or simply not understanding tht the bottom line is to learn obedience from Jesus Christ as He teaches us.
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Go back over the past year, and any thread this man has started, this is the “go to” response to anyone who disagrees with him,
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#51
#51
Studyman said:
I understand that if I don't kill people, but I lie or them or steal from them I am still guilty of sin. Is this not true in your religion?

I also understand that the Pharisees were still relying on the Levitical Priesthood and it's Sacrificial "Works of the Law" for atonement of sins even after their Messiah had shed His Blood as Prophesied.

In your religion, if I Love my neighbor as myself as the Law Commands, but I don't bring a goat to a Levite as the Law also commands, am I still guilty? Or did Jesus becoming my High Priest change the Priesthood?

In your religion, exactly what Laws did Moses create? It is my understanding that Jesus, as the Word of God, created His Law. Do you follow this same Jesus? Or is there another who didn't create "all things"?
Click to expand...
What I believe is what the Bible teaches. Sin is sin. Murder is sin. Lying is sin. Stealing is sin.
The penalty for sin is death, eternal separation from God.
We are not subject to that penalty when we accept Jesus as Savior.
The Law was given to Israel. The Law is much more than the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Much more.
It is the Law, nor Laws.
Moses did not create any laws, he simply recorded THE LAW as revealed to him by God.
Israel called it the Law of Moses.
It seem that you and others want to keep part of the Law while not keeping all of the Law.

I have never said nor do I believe that we are not to avoid all sin. It should be the goal of everyone to live a life free of sin.
The point I am trying to make is simple----
If you are going to believe and teach that we must keep the Law, than keep the Law.
Every single part. To violate even one part is to fail.
Those who continue to demand that we keep the Law are demanding that others do what they do not do and that is hypocritical just as the Pharisees that confronted Jesus.



If and when you pick and choose you are in violation of THE LAW.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#52
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#52
If you have been addressing me in your last two posts, understand I have made myself clear that there is no sacrifice for sin other than Jesus Christ.

There is only one sacrifice worthy to give to our Maker, much to our shame at times, and that is thanksgiving. I say much to our shame because it should not be viewed as a sacrifice, yet it is.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#53
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#53
SpoonJuly said:
What I believe is what the Bible teaches. Sin is sin. Murder is sin. Lying is sin. Stealing is sin.
The penalty for sin is death, eternal separation from God.
We are not subject to that penalty when we accept Jesus as Savior.
The Law was given to Israel. The Law is much more than the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Much more.
It is the Law, nor Laws.
Moses did not create any laws, he simply recorded THE LAW as revealed to him by God.
Israel called it the Law of Moses.
It seem that you and others want to keep part of the Law while not keeping all of the Law.

I have never said nor do I believe that we are not to avoid all sin. It should be the goal of everyone to live a life free of sin.
The point I am trying to make is simple----
If you are going to believe and teach that we must keep the Law, than keep the Law.
Every single part. To violate even one part is to fail.
Those who continue to demand that we keep the Law are demanding that others do what they do not do and that is hypocritical just as the Pharisees that confronted Jesus.



If and when you pick and choose you are in violation of THE LAW.
Click to expand...

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7






JPT
 
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SpoonJuly

Guest
#54
#54
justpassinthrough said:
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7






JPT
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I agree, but keeping a part of the Law while not keeping all of the Law is not practicing righteousness.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#56
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#56
Only Jesus Christ was perfect in the flesh, this is why He and only He is our Salvation, for He is perfect for us. He began His work in us at the insstant of our repenting and turning to Him.

That work is being accomplished by Him alone, not by us, yet we are to do all we are given to be able to do as He did, for He is the Only Example for righteousness.

Learn from Him, for He is sthe Robboni, (My Great Teacher), no one else, others are only capable of being His assistents in such matter.s.

Avoid sin at all costs for this is what Jesus has saved us from by grace by His Blood, His Sacrifice..

Sin is breaking the law......His law. If you do not understand what He has taught us, go back, and learn all from Him.....actually once you hear Him only, everything is much easier for His yoke is easy ad His burden is light.
 
S

Studyman

Senior Member
#57
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#57
SpoonJuly said:
What I believe is what the Bible teaches. Sin is sin. Murder is sin. Lying is sin. Stealing is sin.
The penalty for sin is death, eternal separation from God.
We are not subject to that penalty when we accept Jesus as Savior.
The Law was given to Israel. The Law is much more than the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Much more.
It is the Law, nor Laws.
Moses did not create any laws, he simply recorded THE LAW as revealed to him by God.
Israel called it the Law of Moses.
It seem that you and others want to keep part of the Law while not keeping all of the Law.

I have never said nor do I believe that we are not to avoid all sin. It should be the goal of everyone to live a life free of sin.
The point I am trying to make is simple----
If you are going to believe and teach that we must keep the Law, than keep the Law.
Every single part. To violate even one part is to fail.
Those who continue to demand that we keep the Law are demanding that others do what they do not do and that is hypocritical just as the Pharisees that confronted Jesus.

If and when you pick and choose you are in violation of THE LAW.
Click to expand...

So if I don't bring a goat to the Levite Priest for atonement of my sins, I am just as guilty as if I murdered my neighbor?
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#59
#59
Studyman said:
So if I don't bring a goat to the Levite Priest for atonement of my sins, I am just as guilty as if I murdered my neighbor?
Click to expand...
If you believe that one must keep the Law as given to Israel through Moses,, yes.
Both are sin and breaking the Law.
But we are no longer required to keep the Law as given to Israel.
Jesus fulfilled the Law.
We are to follow His commandments.
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#60
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
#60
JaumeJ said:
Only Jesus Christ was perfect in the flesh, this is why He and only He is our Salvation, for He is perfect for us. He began His work in us at the insstant of our repenting and turning to Him.

That work is being accomplished by Him alone, not by us, yet we are to do all we are given to be able to do as He did, for He is the Only Example for righteousness.

Learn from Him, for He is sthe Robboni, (My Great Teacher), no one else, others are only capable of being His assistents in such matter.s.

Avoid sin at all costs for this is what Jesus has saved us from by grace by His Blood, His Sacrifice..

Sin is breaking the law......His law. If you do not understand what He has taught us, go back, and learn all from Him.....actually once you hear Him only, everything is much easier for His yoke is easy ad His burden is light.
Click to expand...

We were saved, which is to say, born again, or regenerated, by grace through faith.


  • He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior


4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7


This refers to our initial salvation, when we were born again, not because of any works of righteousness we did, to earn our salvation, but because He loved us, and because of His merciful kindness.



At this point, the slate is wiped clean, in which our sins are forgiven, and we are cleansed of all unrighteousness, being justified before God as righteousness.


We have been given a new nature, which is compatible to be filled with the Holy Spirit, who empowers our new divine nature to do what we could not do before: Practice righteousness.



Those who have been born again, and have received the Holy Spirit, have been given all things that pertain to life and godliness.



It's now up to us to either walk according to the Spirit, or according to the flesh.


Before we were regenerated, or born again, we did not have the capacity to live our lives according to the Spirit, and practice righteousness, because we were slaves of sin, not having the ability to live in dominion over sin.


We now have the power, and the right to becomes sons of God.


But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12




JPT
 
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