Real account of a sinner that stood directly before God...
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That is good point, especially since someone previously mentioned that the scribes and Pharisees had rocks in their hands. If the Holy Spirit lead them to that utterance then it one has to recall what the devil had said to Jesus in the wilderness regarding turning the stone into bread.
If I recall correctly the devil took him high into the firmament and showed him all the kingdoms at one time which they say is impossible but if it is then maybe it is possible that Jesus turned those rocks into bread when he told them she was a Roman and if they didn't want her to say anything to the Roman authorities then let's see if all the kingdom could even possibly been seen at one time from under
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5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8 And Jesus answered
Seems like if you basically can't see any kingdom upon the earth from this side then you would have to see all the kingdoms from the other side. While the scripture does say high mountain, one has to recall that the waters that covered entire face of the earth in Genesis 1:2 would be used in part to form the atmosphere in Genesis 1:6. Later in the text it foretells the waters should never again become a flood that should cover all the land and destroy all the living things thereon.
Point being the flood waters did rise above the highest mountain top so high mountain would indicate it would still be under the top of the firmament which the Google earth satellite photographs are taken from, Some might say that is a high mountain in the gases found in the exosphere and thermosphere.
If I recall correctly the devil took him high into the firmament and showed him all the kingdoms at one time which they say is impossible but if it is then maybe it is possible that Jesus turned those rocks into bread when he told them she was a Roman and if they didn't want her to say anything to the Roman authorities then let's see if all the kingdom could even possibly been seen at one time from under
View attachment 160521
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8 And Jesus answered
Seems like if you basically can't see any kingdom upon the earth from this side then you would have to see all the kingdoms from the other side. While the scripture does say high mountain, one has to recall that the waters that covered entire face of the earth in Genesis 1:2 would be used in part to form the atmosphere in Genesis 1:6. Later in the text it foretells the waters should never again become a flood that should cover all the land and destroy all the living things thereon.
Point being the flood waters did rise above the highest mountain top so high mountain would indicate it would still be under the top of the firmament which the Google earth satellite photographs are taken from, Some might say that is a high mountain in the gases found in the exosphere and thermosphere.
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A
When God said, "Let there be light," there was light.
When God said, "Let us make man in our image," man was created in God's image.
When Jesus said, "Come out of him," to the demons, the demons came out of a man.
When Jesus said, "Lazarus, come forth," Lazarus rose from the dead and came out of the tomb.
When Jesus said to the storm, "Peace, be still," the wind grew calm.
When Jesus said, "Come follow me," the disciples followed him.
When Jesus said, "Have the folks sit down to eat," thousands were full with only a few fish and a few loaves of bread.
When Jesus said, "Go and sin no more," the woman was no longer an adulteress.
When Jesus said, "It is finished," it was.
When the Lord speaks, it comes to pass. God is not a mortal man so he cannot lie. He is Spirit and Truth.
Do you believe him?
When God said, "Let us make man in our image," man was created in God's image.
When Jesus said, "Come out of him," to the demons, the demons came out of a man.
When Jesus said, "Lazarus, come forth," Lazarus rose from the dead and came out of the tomb.
When Jesus said to the storm, "Peace, be still," the wind grew calm.
When Jesus said, "Come follow me," the disciples followed him.
When Jesus said, "Have the folks sit down to eat," thousands were full with only a few fish and a few loaves of bread.
When Jesus said, "Go and sin no more," the woman was no longer an adulteress.
When Jesus said, "It is finished," it was.
When the Lord speaks, it comes to pass. God is not a mortal man so he cannot lie. He is Spirit and Truth.
Do you believe him?
The father "A" above doesn't really know how to be a father. Where there are no rules, grace would not exist. Grace came for the undeserving, the law-breakers, and to those who are unworthy. And father "B" has some superiority complex.
"I love you, but you have to...", loving someone conditionally is not grace. Remember "love thy enemy"?
"learn my rules", are the rules more important than loving your child?
"I know more than you do", Yes a father would, but would you teach the child?
Clearly both fathers display a lack of real love and grace so I assume this was a trick question or a poorly constructed show of contrast.
To me, a father that demonstrates real love and grace should be something like this:
Son, you are my child. Learn from me and do what I do. Because I love you, I will help you, protect you, and discipline you.
If you have a father who will cheer for you in times of success and back you up in times of failures, you know he is reliable. That will be a joyful family and full of security. However if you have a father who will only cheer you in times of success but disown you in your failures, then you can expect that family to be full of fake smiles and insecurity.
For those who come from an insecure family, there is hope because you have a Father in heaven that has your back forever. He will cheer for you when you do a good job and will not disown you when you fail. Praise be to God!
"I love you, but you have to...", loving someone conditionally is not grace. Remember "love thy enemy"?
"learn my rules", are the rules more important than loving your child?
"I know more than you do", Yes a father would, but would you teach the child?
Clearly both fathers display a lack of real love and grace so I assume this was a trick question or a poorly constructed show of contrast.
To me, a father that demonstrates real love and grace should be something like this:
Son, you are my child. Learn from me and do what I do. Because I love you, I will help you, protect you, and discipline you.
If you have a father who will cheer for you in times of success and back you up in times of failures, you know he is reliable. That will be a joyful family and full of security. However if you have a father who will only cheer you in times of success but disown you in your failures, then you can expect that family to be full of fake smiles and insecurity.
For those who come from an insecure family, there is hope because you have a Father in heaven that has your back forever. He will cheer for you when you do a good job and will not disown you when you fail. Praise be to God!
Ok, strike one...
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Deut 8:3
12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Deut 10
Dang off the pitchers head and still clears the 410 fence in right field.....
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Deut 8:3
12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Deut 10
Dang off the pitchers head and still clears the 410 fence in right field.....
.4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (from Gal. 5)
-JGIG
True obedience was doing that which is good and right in his sight, by doing what LORD asks.
There is a tremendous difference between the Law and Word, for one the term 'Word' has four letters while the term 'Law' has three letters.
So what curse did the Law bring that the Word doesn't bring?
15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.
16 Cursed be he that setteth light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.
17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.
18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.
19 Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.
20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.
21 Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen.
22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.
23 Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law. And all the people shall say, Amen.
24 Cursed be he that smiteth his neighbour secretly. And all the people shall say, Amen.
25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Deut 27:15-26
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Gal 1:9
But if I could ask, if it was verse 22 please be discrete since that would be off topic to bring that up ok?
And I have a question for you, while we're at it . . . I've asked it of other Law 'keepers' here, but so far, no one has chosen to answer the question.
The Fall Feast, a pilgrimage Feast, is coming up in a couple of weeks. The Law states that males should travel to the place of God's choosing (which, over time, became Jerusalem) to observe the Feast.
Are you going to Jerusalem to observe the Feast? I've heard it's lovely there this time of year!
And if you're not, are you not willfully disobeying a clear commandment in the Law? After all, it is not too difficult for you, especially in this modern era of air travel!
So are you going?
-JGIG
No, disciplemike, Grace provides a redemptive context in which to deal with sin.
Grace provides an atmosphere in which sin can be confessed to and the person prayed for to bring healing.
Law not only stirs up sinning (according to Scripture), but it pushes sin into the shadows, with believers wanting to keep sin hidden because of the condemnation that being honest about it would bring.
I like this quote regarding this issue:
. . . If you preach Law, Law, Law to the Church and people sin, it's the people's fault! 'Look! The pastor preached Law! They disobeyed the pastor.'
You preach Grace and the people sin, they'll say, 'It's that message Rob's preaching!'
People sin under Law; People sin under Grace.
If people sin under Law, the pastor looks good. If they sin under Grace, the pastor looks bad, so many pastors . . . pull back and preach a mixture to safeguard themselves.
People sin under Law. They're sinning under Law, you just don't know about it, but they're sinning under Law it's just hidden. People sin under Grace. But people who sin under Grace, are sinning in a place where there's an environment of safety where it can come out into the light and there's hope for restoration through a process. Amen?
People say, 'Oh, since this Grace message has caused a lot of trouble in our church. Caused a lot of trouble.' No, I've never heard someone say that to me personally, but, actually if you go up into your attic, and you climb up into the top attic and you haven't been up there for months, and you turn on your flashlight in the darkness and you see all the dust - 'Oh no! Look how much dust my flashlight's caused!' No, no, it was always there, it didn't CREATE it, it EXPOSED what's there.
You turn on Grace into the Church - undiluted, full Grace - and we're going to see all kinds of things, 'Oh no!' But Grace didn't cause it - it reveals it and brings it out into a redemptive context.
From Grace Part 1 - http://ccihk.com/popup/message/grace-part-1
-JGIG
Grace provides an atmosphere in which sin can be confessed to and the person prayed for to bring healing.
Law not only stirs up sinning (according to Scripture), but it pushes sin into the shadows, with believers wanting to keep sin hidden because of the condemnation that being honest about it would bring.
I like this quote regarding this issue:
. . . If you preach Law, Law, Law to the Church and people sin, it's the people's fault! 'Look! The pastor preached Law! They disobeyed the pastor.'
You preach Grace and the people sin, they'll say, 'It's that message Rob's preaching!'
People sin under Law; People sin under Grace.
If people sin under Law, the pastor looks good. If they sin under Grace, the pastor looks bad, so many pastors . . . pull back and preach a mixture to safeguard themselves.
People sin under Law. They're sinning under Law, you just don't know about it, but they're sinning under Law it's just hidden. People sin under Grace. But people who sin under Grace, are sinning in a place where there's an environment of safety where it can come out into the light and there's hope for restoration through a process. Amen?
People say, 'Oh, since this Grace message has caused a lot of trouble in our church. Caused a lot of trouble.' No, I've never heard someone say that to me personally, but, actually if you go up into your attic, and you climb up into the top attic and you haven't been up there for months, and you turn on your flashlight in the darkness and you see all the dust - 'Oh no! Look how much dust my flashlight's caused!' No, no, it was always there, it didn't CREATE it, it EXPOSED what's there.
You turn on Grace into the Church - undiluted, full Grace - and we're going to see all kinds of things, 'Oh no!' But Grace didn't cause it - it reveals it and brings it out into a redemptive context.
From Grace Part 1 - http://ccihk.com/popup/message/grace-part-1
-JGIG
Understandable. That's what we all thought as well. The thing is, Jesus told the woman "Neither do I condemn you" THEN "go and sin no more." This really sums it up. We think that too much grace produces a sinful life. But real understanding of grace leads to repentance. It is very clear in the bible, "sin shall have no dominion over you for you are no longer under law, but you are under grace." Isn't this what Paul was talking about?
What shepherd leaves 99 sheeps to look for one that is lost. No one. But Jesus does. He finds the sheep, gets him back and then throws a party. Did the sheep do anything?! He consented to be found and carried back. Jesus did all the work. And if you think this only applies to salvation, how much more grace does Jesus have for the saved!
What shepherd leaves 99 sheeps to look for one that is lost. No one. But Jesus does. He finds the sheep, gets him back and then throws a party. Did the sheep do anything?! He consented to be found and carried back. Jesus did all the work. And if you think this only applies to salvation, how much more grace does Jesus have for the saved!
I go to a grace church and week after week we receive testimonies from people all around the world who were Christians, trying to live a holy life but were suffering on the inside (cases of depression, addiction to substance, pornography, smoking, etc), miraculously getting victory after understanding completely that no sin is greater than Jesus' sacrifice. Did it make them even worse sinners?! They were set free! "You will know the truth and the truth will set you free." Isn't this real freedom?!
Do you think people really come to Jesus to be able to legally sin?! Is that really the heart of a Christian?! Interestingly, not one testimony sent to us ever admitted to being glad to be able to sin again.
If you're still not convinced, take Joseph for example. Potiphar's wife tempted him DAILY, yet he refused. Joseph lived before the law was given. Where did he get the freedom to choose righteousness?! How was he able to say no to temptation without a commandment?! Grace existed for Abraham, Enoch, Jacob.
Speaking of Enoch (this is to emphasize how far God's grace goes for us), his son's name Methuselah, in the Hebrew literally meant "his death shall bring judgement." We know what judgement that is, the flood in Noah's time. Well, Methuselah lived the longest ever. What more now that judgement has already been made and price already paid for?!
Do you think people really come to Jesus to be able to legally sin?! Is that really the heart of a Christian?! Interestingly, not one testimony sent to us ever admitted to being glad to be able to sin again.
If you're still not convinced, take Joseph for example. Potiphar's wife tempted him DAILY, yet he refused. Joseph lived before the law was given. Where did he get the freedom to choose righteousness?! How was he able to say no to temptation without a commandment?! Grace existed for Abraham, Enoch, Jacob.
Speaking of Enoch (this is to emphasize how far God's grace goes for us), his son's name Methuselah, in the Hebrew literally meant "his death shall bring judgement." We know what judgement that is, the flood in Noah's time. Well, Methuselah lived the longest ever. What more now that judgement has already been made and price already paid for?!
Great post, blessedjohn80 -
My husband and I are raising seven children. It's MUCH easier to put rules in place than to shepherd hearts and minds. But putting laws in place breeds rebellion and resentment. I think the biggest thing we teach our children is to love. When behavior is motivated from a place of love, that behavior will do no harm.
And I've learned over time that consequences, either natural or put in place by us as parents ahead of time, are MUCH better teachers than punishment. Most of disciplining children is steering them within a stated set of boundaries, not punishing them. And those boundaries are rooted in love, not law.
With children aged 20 down to 7, we've been at this awhile, and while we're not by any measure perfect parents, there's a lot of grace and joy in our home and our children are loving, confident, personable, and have great senses of humor. And we all get along with each other, as well! We like our children! We're enjoying the adults they're becoming!
-JGIG
My husband and I are raising seven children. It's MUCH easier to put rules in place than to shepherd hearts and minds. But putting laws in place breeds rebellion and resentment. I think the biggest thing we teach our children is to love. When behavior is motivated from a place of love, that behavior will do no harm.
And I've learned over time that consequences, either natural or put in place by us as parents ahead of time, are MUCH better teachers than punishment. Most of disciplining children is steering them within a stated set of boundaries, not punishing them. And those boundaries are rooted in love, not law.
With children aged 20 down to 7, we've been at this awhile, and while we're not by any measure perfect parents, there's a lot of grace and joy in our home and our children are loving, confident, personable, and have great senses of humor. And we all get along with each other, as well! We like our children! We're enjoying the adults they're becoming!
-JGIG
By the way, I saw the title of this post, and I wanted to come share something a lady told me, did not ask for the source of this, but she said it was "after the story of jesus before the last book in the Bible.
Supposedly, in this there is a story of two people who were put in front of judgement after jesus death, and they had been "pulled out of the fire and were charred by it,"
The enemy was certain they were going to receive condemn.
and their ruling was, "as they should, I see no reason to have them suffer more". There was complaint, and He said "I have ruled as I have ruled, no more should should these two suffer because they were in the fire, if they find there way out, I see no reason to put them back in if they were able to come to me, and aren't completely destroyed."
The enemy complained more, saying it made no sense to accept them if they could be burned by the flames of sin, the reply which He gave was "Not only is this a new ruling, but these people who came to me from the fire, will be honored as saviors in and of themselves amongst people in heaven as their ruling will apply to others, these two will have (some higher thing) in the kingdom of heaven for what they have done."
Thought this fit the topic of of the title of the thread, don't assume this woman was telling me and the church the truth this was in there until you find it and see it for yourselves, but if this really is in the Bible, it fits (has to be from somewhere).
Friendinpeace
Supposedly, in this there is a story of two people who were put in front of judgement after jesus death, and they had been "pulled out of the fire and were charred by it,"
The enemy was certain they were going to receive condemn.
and their ruling was, "as they should, I see no reason to have them suffer more". There was complaint, and He said "I have ruled as I have ruled, no more should should these two suffer because they were in the fire, if they find there way out, I see no reason to put them back in if they were able to come to me, and aren't completely destroyed."
The enemy complained more, saying it made no sense to accept them if they could be burned by the flames of sin, the reply which He gave was "Not only is this a new ruling, but these people who came to me from the fire, will be honored as saviors in and of themselves amongst people in heaven as their ruling will apply to others, these two will have (some higher thing) in the kingdom of heaven for what they have done."
Thought this fit the topic of of the title of the thread, don't assume this woman was telling me and the church the truth this was in there until you find it and see it for yourselves, but if this really is in the Bible, it fits (has to be from somewhere).
Friendinpeace
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