Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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Nowhere does Paul say grace excludes obedience to God.
Grace is a free gift that comes with conditions and those that meet the conditions of believing, repenting, confessing and submitting baptism receive grace.
The Holy Spirit does not have to supernaturally enable one to obey, that idea puts fault and blame upon the HS for the disobedient due to the HS failure to "enable" them.
You say justification is by faith, James says justification is by works:
Faith>>>>>>>>>>justifies
works>>>>>>>>>justifies
Only one way to justified/saved which can only mean faith is a work.
Grace is a free gift that comes with conditions and those that meet the conditions of believing, repenting, confessing and submitting baptism receive grace.
The Holy Spirit does not have to supernaturally enable one to obey, that idea puts fault and blame upon the HS for the disobedient due to the HS failure to "enable" them.
You say justification is by faith, James says justification is by works:
Faith>>>>>>>>>>justifies
works>>>>>>>>>justifies
Only one way to justified/saved which can only mean faith is a work.
John 10:25-30
25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
(sebastian you are not among His sheep)
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me,[SUP]a[/SUP] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
(Fellow brothers and sisters you are among His sheep)
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
(sebastian you are not among His sheep)
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me,[SUP]a[/SUP] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
(Fellow brothers and sisters you are among His sheep)
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Hear from akouo means an obedient listening...one must obediently hear and do the work of following to qualify to be a sheep of Christ. Lack of works = no hearing and following = not a sheep of Christ.
Yes.
James says works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies, James 2:24
Paul says obeying from the heart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>frees from sin/justifies, Rom 6:17,18
Mt 25 and Eph 2:10 shows must do good works in order to maintain salvation, judgment is based upon the kind of works one does, Mt 25, Rom 2:6-11 not based upon if one had faith only or not.
James says works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies, James 2:24
Paul says obeying from the heart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>frees from sin/justifies, Rom 6:17,18
Mt 25 and Eph 2:10 shows must do good works in order to maintain salvation, judgment is based upon the kind of works one does, Mt 25, Rom 2:6-11 not based upon if one had faith only or not.
What sugar coated double talk! No straw man here. In John 6:29, Jesus said this is the work of God/this is what God requires that you believe in Him whom He has sent. Jesus said work of God/believe in Him and you say works/plural of God then list your check list of works. You sound similar to these Jews in verse 28 who were thinking of various deeds of the Pharisaic type and rules. Difference in style but same in substance. This is the "work of God" does not mean works/plural of God and it also does not mean that God believes for you. Those who don't believe in Him as the instrumental means of receiving salvation are doing their own works in a vain attempt to receive salvation by works.
John 6:40 - For my Father's WILL is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. Those who BELIEVE IN HIM have done the Father's WILL in regards to receiving eternal life. Salvation by works IS NOT THE WILL OF THE FATHER so those who don't believe in Him have not done the will of the Father (and are workers of iniquity) no matter how many so called good works that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to be saved by works.
John 6:40 - For my Father's WILL is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. Those who BELIEVE IN HIM have done the Father's WILL in regards to receiving eternal life. Salvation by works IS NOT THE WILL OF THE FATHER so those who don't believe in Him have not done the will of the Father (and are workers of iniquity) no matter how many so called good works that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to be saved by works.
Why do people quote single passages to try and make their point of the flesh mind, and not bother with the whole context.
Eph 2:8 For by GRACE are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the GIFT of God;
2:9 NOT of works, lest any man should boast.
Our salvation is guaranteed through the acceptance of God's grace to us by way of the sacrifice and resurrection of his son Christ Jesus. That's it, plain and simple. Being born again with Christ inside us, it would be pretty well impossible for people not to do good works because Love produces good works.
But there are no amount of works that could ever keep you saved, or lose your salvation. It seems so unbelievable for the flesh mind that it can be that simple, and that is why we are to reach deep within, and understand the word on a spiritual level.
And yes you can do nothing all your life, and on the last day you can accept christ and be given the keys to the kingdom of heaven as we have.
The parable of the workers, who were given a penny to work in the fields, then the master went back and got more workers, and then again, and then one hour before the end of the day he got even more. When he paid them, he gave them all the same wage and those who were there first, slaving in the hot sum all day were very upset because he gave the same wage to those who were only there an hour.
The master says that it is his land and he can do whatever he wants, he kept his promise to those who were there first so they should be happy, and he kept his promise to those who were there last. (obviously not verbatim)
This is about the first is the last and the last is the first people. God's gift of salvation is free to everyone at any time, and it is the same gift to everyone whether you accept it now, or on the last day of your life, and those are his rules, and we should be happy that we have been given the gift at all, and be happy for all who accept it.
Christ took the thief on the cross with him to heaven did he not. What good works did that thief do in his life for he had no faith whatsoever.
Even Charles Manson is able to accept salvation and enter God's kingdom if he repents from his heart and accepts Christ as his saviour.
The flesh mind cannot comprehend that we do not have to do anything in order to accept or keep the gift of salvation other than accepting Christ as our lord and saviour. For he took the sins of the world forever more with him, one just has to accept that and accept the gift of grace.
faith is not a requirement of salvation, it is a product of salvation.
Please read the new testament, from front to back, do not skip from here to there, then read again and again and again, and you will begin to understand the word in whole on a spiritual level as it was designed for us in the new testament by Christ Jesus
God bless
Eph 2:8 For by GRACE are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the GIFT of God;
2:9 NOT of works, lest any man should boast.
Our salvation is guaranteed through the acceptance of God's grace to us by way of the sacrifice and resurrection of his son Christ Jesus. That's it, plain and simple. Being born again with Christ inside us, it would be pretty well impossible for people not to do good works because Love produces good works.
But there are no amount of works that could ever keep you saved, or lose your salvation. It seems so unbelievable for the flesh mind that it can be that simple, and that is why we are to reach deep within, and understand the word on a spiritual level.
And yes you can do nothing all your life, and on the last day you can accept christ and be given the keys to the kingdom of heaven as we have.
The parable of the workers, who were given a penny to work in the fields, then the master went back and got more workers, and then again, and then one hour before the end of the day he got even more. When he paid them, he gave them all the same wage and those who were there first, slaving in the hot sum all day were very upset because he gave the same wage to those who were only there an hour.
The master says that it is his land and he can do whatever he wants, he kept his promise to those who were there first so they should be happy, and he kept his promise to those who were there last. (obviously not verbatim)
This is about the first is the last and the last is the first people. God's gift of salvation is free to everyone at any time, and it is the same gift to everyone whether you accept it now, or on the last day of your life, and those are his rules, and we should be happy that we have been given the gift at all, and be happy for all who accept it.
Christ took the thief on the cross with him to heaven did he not. What good works did that thief do in his life for he had no faith whatsoever.
Even Charles Manson is able to accept salvation and enter God's kingdom if he repents from his heart and accepts Christ as his saviour.
The flesh mind cannot comprehend that we do not have to do anything in order to accept or keep the gift of salvation other than accepting Christ as our lord and saviour. For he took the sins of the world forever more with him, one just has to accept that and accept the gift of grace.
faith is not a requirement of salvation, it is a product of salvation.
Please read the new testament, from front to back, do not skip from here to there, then read again and again and again, and you will begin to understand the word in whole on a spiritual level as it was designed for us in the new testament by Christ Jesus
God bless
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Believing is a work of God, so those that believe are doing God's works and not their own work. So where have I said one can be saved by doing his OWN work? Nowhere. Rom 10:3 shows the clear difference between the Jews who were lost for doing their OWN works for they had not submitted to GOD'S righteousness/works. Some here do not want to see the difference between one doing his OWN works and doing GOD'S works for that will kill their straw man they keep wanting to trot out.
Jn 6:40 says those that BELIEVE (not believe only)>>>>>>shall have eternal life.
Mt 7:21 says those that DOETH the Father's will>>>>>>>>shall enter the kingdom of God
Since having eternal life of Jn 6:40 is equivalent to entering the kingdom of Mt 7:21 that can only mean that a belief that saves is a DOING belief. Beliving then is DOING the will of the Father, belieivng is a work as Jesus said in Jn 6:27-29.
Clearly the difference between what you say and what the bible says can easily be seen here:
Above you say "Salvation by works IS NOT THE WILL OF THE FATHER"
Jesus said " he that doeth the will of my Father... shall enter into the kingdom of heaven
Jesus IS saying salvation is by DOING and you say it's not.
I think we can agree the bible does not contradict itself. I picked those two verses to show the HARMONY, the agreement between what James and Paul both said.
James says works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies, James 2:24
Paul says obeying from the heart>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>frees from sin/justifies, Rom 6:17,18
Eph 2:8,9 does not change nor disagree with what James and Paul said in James 2:24 and Rom 6:17,18 but AGREES with, HARMONIZES:
Eph 2:8------------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
Ja 2:24------------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
Rom 6:17,18----------obeying from the heart>>>>>>>frees from sin/justifies
The terms in red above are all equivalent terms, all represent a saved position. Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, that can only mean all the terms in blue are also equivalent, faith is work, is obedience.
You asked "Why do people quote single passages to try and make their point of the flesh mind, and not bother with the whole context."
I ask why is the phrase "not of works" ripped from its single passage, held up away from all other bible contexts and then it is erroneously proclaimed salvation is "not of works"? Ripping Eph 2:9 from the context away from other bible contexts creates DISharmony, discord among verses and not harmony nor agreement.
EPh 2:9 "Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Eph 9:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
Just within this context of Eph 2:9,10 ripping "not of works" OUT OF CONTEXT creates disharmony with the very next verse, verse 10 that shows one cannot be and remain a Christian, remain saved WITHOUT works.
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You stated " one can have faith and do nothing good."
How does your statement agree with Eph 2:10 that says Christians (those with faith) MUST do good works, have been before ordained by God to do good works?
One can have faith and do nothing good yet he can never be a Christian nor one who is already a Christian do nothing good and remain saved.
How does your statement agree with Eph 2:10 that says Christians (those with faith) MUST do good works, have been before ordained by God to do good works?
One can have faith and do nothing good yet he can never be a Christian nor one who is already a Christian do nothing good and remain saved.
F
Maybe you have confused good works with intense disagreement. Even your statement here alone smacks of self righteousness as if not to include yourself with those you are pointing fingers at. I may not post much in these forums but I certainly read a good deal of them. I've seen you give as good as you get.
"There is none righteous, no, not one..."
Romans 3:10
"There is none righteous, no, not one..."
Romans 3:10
So the Power to keep oneself if based out of your good Works?
Your going to have a hard time Explaining that to the Risen Redeemer, when His Word tells us and those who are Led of Him know that its 'because of Him' we are kept unto Salvation... this the Redemption of the body, Resurrection Body..
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[TD="class: vDispb, bgcolor: #F5F5F5"]Now unto -----> HIM (you seabass)??? or God?? that is ABLE to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His Glory with Exceeding joy, JUDE 1: 24
TO remain a Christian, is in the Power of the LORD, for he/she is KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD, its not their good works 'keeping them'... Good Works were ordained for them to Walk in ONCE THEY WERE REGENERATED.....
you will have hard time explaining this to the Risen Savior! indeed![/TD]
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Straw man.
Sorry you do not understand the meaning of Biblical text.
The Bible never says "Trinity, but it presents it nevertheless.
Just because certain words are not in the Bible does not mean their meaning is not in the Bible,
as with "Trinity."
You're wingin' it in an area of which you have no preparation or training.
Sorry you do not understand the meaning of Biblical text.
The Bible never says "Trinity, but it presents it nevertheless.
Just because certain words are not in the Bible does not mean their meaning is not in the Bible,
as with "Trinity."
You're wingin' it in an area of which you have no preparation or training.
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