Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Hello Brother,

Are we free to live as we please in the contract we enter into with God under the Son? Ought we not to endure until the end in order to enter that promised inheritance?

Your looking at it the wrong way.

1. We did not live up to the standard imposed by God required to enter the promised inheritance.
2. Even after we are saved by the curse of the law, We still can not live up to the requirements required to enter the promised inheritance (perfection)
3. The way I live is damaging me, Damaging others. Not helping me one iota find that things which is missing in my life which CAN give me that joy I am seeking, and if I continue, I will continue on a neverending journey which will keep me in my depraved state of continually seeking, but never finding.
4. Those who realize both, Have been brought by the schoolmaster to God. Now do they trust this FACT? or do they continue to reject it, or trust in self (I can do it)?

If the answer is Yes, I trust this FACT, Yes, I trust that because i can not live up to the standard imposed by God (the law) they why would we want to continue living the way we were (which is the ocntinued neverending journey of unhappiness and unfulfillment) Then would I ever want to live a life completely apart from God?

Yes I may take part of my life in lack of faith. But to say I would leave what gave me joy completely? Sorry bro. I do not see it ever happening.

I understand that there was nothing we did to bring about God's gracious act of offering salvation through faith. That He and He alone offers it out of His graciousness.

Yes. But did he say, I offer it to you in grace, but now I want you to perfect it in the flesh? (obedience) and did the level of obedience required change from when I was a lost person separate from god, and now. when I am his child of God?

But then again, a Covenant has at least two parties who must keep their terms of that Contract for the Contract to remain valid. We know that without a doubt God will remain faithful to His part of that Covenant. And if we will remain faithful to that Contract until the end, then God will deliver what He has promised in return.

Again. A non conditional covenant does not require both parties.

God did not tell abraham if you do this. I will do that (a two party conditional covenant.

he said, I will do this, no matter what you do. (I GIVE YOU AS A GIFT)

That is the new covenant, it is not a two party system, it is a one party. god did all the work. He said I GIVE AS A GIFT.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your statement here contradicts the teaching of faith only. Faith only says works are not essential, unnecessary to being saved. So if works are not essential, unnecessary to being saved, then why should faith produce something that is not essential, unnecessary to being saved?

This makes no sense.

Are you telling me that if I trust someone, I am not going to trust them and do what they say?

The only reason you would not do something, is because YOU DO NOT TRUST THEM.

It is obvious you have no desire to understand what true faith is. Then again, Your still trusting yourself over God. And your ability to save yourself.

Good luck!

 

[notuptome]

Who said anything about Judging?

Here is what he said :



(emphasis in font size, bold underline and color blue in the question are mine)

Now can you answer the question?

What works can a dead man do? A man cannot be saved apart from the grace of God. The whole argument stems from a failure to differentiate between salvation and sanctification. One can argue until they are blue in the face but until you separate salvation by grace from sanctification through obedience you cannot arrive at a conclusion that is in harmony with scriptures.

Ultimately we reach sanctification and glorification with Christ when we shed this body of flesh and receive our new body made like unto His glorified body incorruptible and eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Naaman is a perfect example of God's grace being conditional upon man's obedience. This had nothing to do with OT law but God extending His grace making that grace conditional upon Naaman dipping 7 times.

Yep. And you completely ignore all the times God showed his grave with no one doing anything.

Keep focusing on one thing, And you will miss the truth.

if what you say is true, there could NEVER be a time God showed grace and NOTHING was required (which is what true grace is)

Nothing in the definition of grace implies that it must always be unconditional. Certain man-made theologies as Calvinism imply grace must be unconditional. This is why there are those as "savdbygrace" that unbiblically try to have men saved BEFORE men even CONDITIONALLY believe.

lol..

Grace, Unmeritorious (unearned or unworked for) Favor. Mercy. etc.

Your the one who changed the meaning in your religion.

If this were true, then Naaman dipping in the river 7 times means he earned his healing, grace had nothing to do with it.

Your right, it had nothing to do with it. Because he EARNED his healing by doing the work . God makes us EARN rewards, he is not going to give us rewards we did not earn. The things he gives us we do not earn is given by grace.

But you can;t fathom this,

 

[SeaBass]

Here is my favorite Bible verse. Psalms 34:6 This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles

Crying is all one has to do to be saved? No believing in Christ, no repenting of sins, no confessing Christ, no baptism to have sins forgiven? Just conditionally cry to be saved?

Was not the poor man here David, poor in spirit, humbling himself before God. David was an obedient man who repented of his sins. Psa 34:4 tells us David was on who "sought the Lord, and he heard me, and delivered me from all my fears."

 

[dcontroversal]

This makes no sense.

Are you telling me that if I trust someone, I am not going to trust them and do what they say?

The only reason you would not do something, is because YOU DO NOT TRUST THEM.

It is obvious you have no desire to understand what true faith is. Then again, Your still trusting yourself over God. And your ability to save yourself.

Good luck!

I agree and will say...not to mention twisting scripture out of context as usual....Mr. Twisty that is!

 

[SeaBass]

Ignorant people. works are an effect, the cause is faith in the cross. You have an ear to hear let them hear>

Are these works/effect necessary to be saved?

 

[SeaBass]

Way to kick the hornet nest SeaBass. What you started here is nonproductive because you are not the judge. It's like telling a baby who just learned to walk to go do some hurdles. Here is where your arguments fail. Not all are at the same spot on our Christian walk. Faith in Christ and committing to Him is in fact all that is needed for salvation. However if you have indeed committed He will begin a work in you and the evidence of this is that the believer will take on the likeness of Christ and will do works. Jesus disciples His followers, nurturing them and preparing them for ministry, then He calls them minister. Don't beat the children of God SeaBass. I do agree that many are deceiving themselves and think they are going to be saved that aren't. Those people are most likely not seeking fellowship and edification on a Christian chat Site. That is just my opinion. I believe you are just wanting to be helpful but try not to discourage those who are less mature.

The false teaching of faith only is of men, not God. God says men must do the works of believing, repenting confessing and submitting to baptism but many false teachers claim God is wrong for the "real" way man is saved is by doing nothing.

 

[SeaBass]

This makes no sense.

Are you telling me that if I trust someone, I am not going to trust them and do what they say?

The only reason you would not do something, is because YOU DO NOT TRUST THEM.

It is obvious you have no desire to understand what true faith is. Then again, Your still trusting yourself over God. And your ability to save yourself.

Good luck!

The theology of faith only says you do not have to do what Christ says (Lk 6:46) for if you do some work your are trying to merit salvation.

Again if works are not essential/unnecessary to being saved then why must a "true saving faith" produce something non-essential, unnecessary to being saved?

 

[cfultz3]

Your looking at it the wrong way.

1. We did not live up to the standard imposed by God required to enter the promised inheritance.
2. Even after we are saved by the curse of the law, We still can not live up to the requirements required to enter the promised inheritance (perfection)
3. The way I live is damaging me, Damaging others. Not helping me one iota find that things which is missing in my life which CAN give me that joy I am seeking, and if I continue, I will continue on a neverending journey which will keep me in my depraved state of continually seeking, but never finding.
4. Those who realize both, Have been brought by the schoolmaster to God. Now do they trust this FACT? or do they continue to reject it, or trust in self (I can do it)?

If the answer is Yes, I trust this FACT, Yes, I trust that because i can not live up to the standard imposed by God (the law) they why would we want to continue living the way we were (which is the ocntinued neverending journey of unhappiness and unfulfillment) Then would I ever want to live a life completely apart from God?

Yes I may take part of my life in lack of faith. But to say I would leave what gave me joy completely? Sorry bro. I do not see it ever happening.



Yes. But did he say, I offer it to you in grace, but now I want you to perfect it in the flesh? (obedience) and did the level of obedience required change from when I was a lost person separate from god, and now. when I am his child of God?



Again. A non conditional covenant does not require both parties.

God did not tell abraham if you do this. I will do that (a two party conditional covenant.

he said, I will do this, no matter what you do. (I GIVE YOU AS A GIFT)

That is the new covenant, it is not a two party system, it is a one party. god did all the work. He said I GIVE AS A GIFT.

What purpose do all those warnings, exhortations, the need of watching over each other, of returning to one's first love, of enduring to the end, the need to ask for forgiveness, to be not tested if a Covenant cannot be broken by us?

God did all the work needed for the New Covenant to be put in place, but neither will He hold one against their will once they enter into that Contract with Him, that would make Him a tyrant. You may not ever abandon that Contract out of your gratitude, but if it were not possible for others, then all those exhortations to not cast away (throw away, abandoned) one's assurance they have in the Christ would not had been mentioned.

It is said that they were not permitted to enter into God's rest because of THEIR faithlessness. And hence, the reason why it warns to watch over each other so that that heart of stubbornness will not be found in one of us, Christians.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The theology of faith only says you do not have to do what Christ says (Lk 6:46) for if you do some work your are trying to merit salvation.

No.

The theology of faith say you must do as Christ says (believe in the name of the only son of God. Call out on the name of the lord to be saved after you have humbled yourself and repented of the fact you can not save yourself.

Your theology states that one can work in the flesh (self will) and God will accept these works as payment for your sin. Which was not true in the OT and is no more true today.

Again if works are not essential/unnecessary to being saved then why must a "true saving faith" produce something non-essential, unnecessary to being saved?

As DC says,

You are mr twisty (I like that name)

Until you want to talk about what true faith vs what dead faith is. We will never agree.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What purpose do all those warnings, exhortations, the need of watching over each other, of returning to one's first love, of enduring to the end, the need to ask for forgiveness, to be not tested if a Covenant cannot be broken by us?

So we can live a life pleasing to God. Pleasing to self (as we recieve blessing) and can be used of God in his purpose in our lives.

We are never warned to do these things, or lose salvation. if this is true. salvation is NOT of grace, but is of works/

God gave Abraham and his people an inheritance. It was unconditional. It belongs to Abraham even today. And nothing can take that away., because God promised it to abraham unconditionally. (the Abraham covenant)

The position of the inheritance God gave Israel is still in place. it has not changed, nor been taken away. (this pictures the gift of justification, or positional life (in Christ))

This land was to a blessing to the children of Israel. And they were to use that blessing to show the world Gods love.

God later gave israel another covenant.

This time it was conditional.

if you do this. I will do that. If you do not do this. Then I will punish you (final punishment being to take them out of their own land, and removing ALL blessing. (a picture of sanctification, or conditional life)

But the land was still theres (it still is)

This is a picture of us.

God gave us a non conditional gift (salvation)

He also asks us to do things (commands) if we do them, he will bless us, if we do not, he will punish us. But the thing he gave us was still ours, even if we do not reap the benefits of it while yet still alive.

As someone pointed out earlier. people want to mix justification with sanctification. They can not mix.

Our justification is called eternal. Our sanctification is called conditional.

Our justification is a gift. Our sanctification will gain us rewards and blessings on earth and heaven, or our lack of will cause us to miss out on these things.

But we are still saved. "as paul says, even the most baby of all christians is still saved, even though as through fire, even though all the reward were burnt in the fire as wood hay and straw.

God did all the work needed for the New Covenant to be put in place, but neither will He hold one against their will once they enter into that Contract with Him, that would make Him a tyrant. You may not ever abandon that Contract out of your gratitude, but if it were not possible for others, then all those exhortations to not cast away (throw away, abandoned) one's assurance they have in the Christ would not had been mentioned.

It is said that they were not permitted to enter into God's rest because of THEIR faithlessness. And hence, the reason why it warns to watch over each other so that that heart of stubbornness will not be found in one of us, Christians.

They were never allowed to enter rest, because they never believed.

They did not believe after every plague

They did not believe after the red sea was parted

They did not believe after God sent mannah

They did not believe after God gave them water from a rock.

They did not believe when God gave them victory over their enemy on the way.

Do you think they were ever saved? how can they have been saved in their trust of God. WHEN THEY NEVER BELIEVED?

 

[cfultz3]

Known, unknown . . . sin is sin is sin . . . ALL sin was dealt with at the Cross.

You seemed to be a fair person who have missed me saying: Somewhere someone said that those 'unknown' sins are covered by the blood of Christ.

Why do you keep trying to think up sins that are not forgiven? Or if you commit them enough times, they fall into an 'unforgiven' category?

I suppose unbelieving (not hearkening and thus not obeying) is not forgiven. Did you read the conversation EG and I were having before replying to that single post? You seem to be a fair person who would not jump to conclusions.

What Christ did at the Cross was MORE than enough to provide the forgiveness for the sins of the ENTIRE WORLD.

Except 'unbelieving', that thing I was talking about to EG. Thanks for reading before replying.

What, you think YOU have some special sin that you were good enough at hiding from God and/or yourself that He couldn't find it to forgive it?

unbelieving is not forgiven. Again, it takes a faithful faith.

Really?

Sheesh.

Pride does weird stuff to people's thought processes.

-JGIG

Yes, really, one must follow the Lord and that includes hearkening to Him. How can we walk faithlessly, seeing that it did not work for the Hebrews either.

 

[cfultz3]

So we can live a life pleasing to God. Pleasing to self (as we recieve blessing) and can be used of God in his purpose in our lives.

We are never warned to do these things, or lose salvation. if this is true. salvation is NOT of grace, but is of works/

God gave Abraham and his people an inheritance. It was unconditional. It belongs to Abraham even today. And nothing can take that away., because God promised it to abraham unconditionally. (the Abraham covenant)

The position of the inheritance God gave Israel is still in place. it has not changed, nor been taken away. (this pictures the gift of justification, or positional life (in Christ))

This land was to a blessing to the children of Israel. And they were to use that blessing to show the world Gods love.

God later gave israel another covenant.

This time it was conditional.

if you do this. I will do that. If you do not do this. Then I will punish you (final punishment being to take them out of their own land, and removing ALL blessing. (a picture of sanctification, or conditional life)

But the land was still theres (it still is)

This is a picture of us.

God gave us a non conditional gift (salvation)

He also asks us to do things (commands) if we do them, he will bless us, if we do not, he will punish us. But the thing he gave us was still ours, even if we do not reap the benefits of it while yet still alive.

As someone pointed out earlier. people want to mix justification with sanctification. They can not mix.

Our justification is called eternal. Our sanctification is called conditional.

Our justification is a gift. Our sanctification will gain us rewards and blessings on earth and heaven, or our lack of will cause us to miss out on these things.

But we are still saved. "as paul says, even the most baby of all christians is still saved, even though as through fire, even though all the reward were burnt in the fire as wood hay and straw.




They were never allowed to enter rest, because they never believed.

They did not believe after every plague

They did not believe after the red sea was parted

They did not believe after God sent mannah

They did not believe after God gave them water from a rock.

They did not believe when God gave them victory over their enemy on the way.

Do you think they were ever saved? how can they have been saved in their trust of God. WHEN THEY NEVER BELIEVED?

Yes, because they never trusted and hearkened unto the Lord on His path.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, because they never trusted and hearkened unto the Lord on His path.

yes.

so they never lost salvation. they never had it.

those who have been saved have entered his rest.

There will be many different aspects of people in heaven.

Super mature power people of God (like Paul and Peter)

mature adult people when grew and did alot for God, who learned that their rebelious teen years were foolsih, and their parent (god) was right all along.

Young adults. who either did not live long enough to mature, or who just did not have faith to move past their early 20's

Teens. who loved their parent (God) but did not make it through all the testing, and had sort of a rebellious attitude. Yet still knew right from wrong and still tried to do things right.

Adolescents. Who are unlearned, and yet even in their unlearned state, Love to help dad out.

babies. Who never grew up.

All of the steps above will recieve some reward on that day. Some (like paul) will have massive rewards. SOme like the adolescents will have a few rewards.

The babies who never grew up will have no reward. but will see their reward burnt in the fires of judgment. Yet he himself will still be saved, Even though as through fire.

To add.

The people who never entered the rest through unbelief. Will have no bema seat reward test. They will be at the great white throne, and recieve their just reward, eternal damnation.

 

[cfultz3]

So we can live a life pleasing to God. Pleasing to self (as we recieve blessing) and can be used of God in his purpose in our lives.

Okay. So, we are warned so that we could live a life pleasing to God. What if we do not heed those warnings? What is left to look forward to except fiery indignation if we do not fulfill God's purpose?

We are never warned to do these things, or lose salvation. if this is true. salvation is NOT of grace, but is of works

But, are we not exhorted to watch over each other so that a heart of stubbornness (not being persuaded and thus not obeying) will not be found in one of us?

.
.
.
He also asks us to do things (commands) if we do them, he will bless us, if we do not, he will punish us. But the thing he gave us was still ours, even if we do not reap the benefits of it while yet still alive.

Are you saying that once I am under Faith's Contract, I can be as a stubborn fallen Hebrew? I am most certain you are not saying that. So, faithfulness to the Shepherd on my part is necessary for me to enter into His Rest. That is, I cannot walk contrary to His pre-determined path He is leading on, known as His will and tell Him I will walk on another path, knowing fully well, I cannot climb over the wall.

As someone pointed out earlier. people want to mix justification with sanctification. They can not mix.

Our justification is called eternal. Our sanctification is called conditional.

Our justification is a gift. Our sanctification will gain us rewards and blessings on earth and heaven, or our lack of will cause us to miss out on these things.

I accept that our Justification (right standing before God through the acts of the Christ) is a gift. But, I do not understand how our sanctification (the state of being made holy) is what will or will not reward us here or during Judgment, when it says that God will judge deeds, not our sanctification. Perhaps, I am missing what you are saying.

But we are still saved. "as paul says, even the most baby of all christians is still saved, even though as through fire, even though all the reward were burnt in the fire as wood hay and straw.

Yes and I agree....if they remain faithful, do not cast away their assurance.

They were never allowed to enter rest, because they never believed (because of stubbornness).

They did not believe (were not persuaded and thus, gave obedience to the Voice) after every plague

They did not believe (were not persuaded and thus, gave obedience to the Voice) after the red sea was parted

They did not believe (were not persuaded and thus, gave obedience to the Voice) after God sent mannah

They did not believe (were not persuaded and thus, gave obedience to the Voice) after God gave them water from a rock.

They did not believe (were not persuaded and thus, gave obedience to the Voice) when God gave them victory over their enemy on the way.

Do you think they were ever saved? how can they have been saved in their trust of God. WHEN THEY NEVER BELIEVED?

They started out from their Exodus believing the message from Moses given to him by God that they would be delivered. But, over time, they could not be persuaded of that and because they were not persuaded, they did not give obedience as they did when they first believed God and hearkened to Him by coming out of Egypt through Moses.

I believe that if they would had continued trusting God in leading them to the promised land, they would had made it. But, since all those works from God did not persuade them and by which, they did not hearken to Him, God saw to it that they did not make it to that everlasting possession. God, Himself, destroyed them so that they WOULD NOT make it there.

My only point in all I have been saying in these posts is this: we are to be faithful to our Lord if we are to make it to His Rest, seeing that they did not make it because of THEIR unfaithfulness. Paul, in reckoning that this could be true for us also, told us to watch over each other so that that heart of stubbornness (not being persuaded and thus, not obeying) will not be found it us also.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay. So, we are warned so that we could live a life pleasing to God. What if we do not heed those warnings? What is left to look forward to except fiery indignation if we do not fulfill God's purpose?

1. We will never completely fulfill Gods purpose in our lives, So this in and of itself would be impossible to do.
2. We have nothing to look forward to. Except standing in front of God and our brothers and sisters in Christ and watch every thing we earned burnt to ashes. I know for me, that would be a very humbling day! I do not plan on being that way, But even the gift I do earn, They are not mine but Gods.

But, are we not exhorted to watch over each other so that a heart of stubbornness (not being persuaded and thus not obeying) will not be found in one of us?

Yep.

For who;s benefit? Ours or Gods? God will get his work accomplished wither I line up and help him or not. It is for our benefit.

Are you saying that once I am under Faith's Contract, I can be as a stubborn fallen Hebrew?

lol. If you are truly under Gods contract. You would not be this stubborn. A jew had NO FAITH. But I think we already established this

I am most certain you are not saying that. So, faithfulness to the Shepherd on my part is necessary for me to enter into His Rest.

There are two rests.

Rest from your work (in order to save yourself)
Rest from your life (a complete trust in God in every area of our life.

All of Gods children have the first rest.
The second rest has many on differing areas of trust.

That is, I cannot walk contrary to His pre-determined path He is leading on, known as His will and tell Him I will walk on another path, knowing fully well, I cannot climb over the wall.

What path are you walking on. The path that leads to salvation.

or the path that leads to great blessing and a joy which surpasses all understanding?

the jews and LAWyers think they are the same path, they are not.

I accept that our Justification (right standing before God through the acts of the Christ) is a gift. But, I do not understand how our sanctification (the state of being made holy) is what will or will not reward us here or during Judgment, when it says that God will judge deeds, not our sanctification. Perhaps, I am missing what you are saying.

Sanctification means set apart.

1. We are set apart from the world, as Gods children (positional sanctification) which is called eternal sanctification.
2. We have to grow to be set apart in the world in our every day lives. (conditional sanctification) which has no bearing on number 1. And will very from day to day depending on how much we are servants to the world. and not set in self.

Our reward are based on what we do in the second part.

Yes and I agree....if they remain faithful, do not cast away their assurance.

They can't cast away their assurance, it was not based on them, it was based on God., if it is based on them, then it is not of grace, but of works, And no one can be assured of anything if they depend on self (even though they can be fooled to think otherwise)

They started out from their Exodus believing the message from Moses given to him by God that they would be delivered.

Not really. They may have believed it, but they had absolutely no faith in it at all. And they proved it over and over.

remember james, Faith without works is dead, even demons believe, a mere belief will not save you or do anything for you. it may get you to walk one way, But you will never trust in the way your walking unless you have true faith.

But, over time, they could not be persuaded of that and because they were not persuaded, they did not give obedience as they did when they first believed God and hearkened to Him by coming out of Egypt through Moses.

Again, they never had faith, we are saved by FAITH, not mere belief.

many believe, but has never been saved. They would be classified as the licentious believers, vs the legalistic believers who depend on works. Neither have complete and full trust in god. or they would have complete assurance God would do what he promised (faith)

I believe that if they would had continued trusting God in leading them to the promised land, they would had made it. But, since all those works from God did not persuade them and by which, they did not hearken to Him, God saw to it that they did not make it to that everlasting possession. God, Himself, destroyed them so that they WOULD NOT make it there.

I believe that to. If they had faith in God (like moses Arron and Joshua and Caleb) they would have entered.

But they did not trust God in the first place.

My only point in all I have been saying in these posts is this: we are to be faithful to our Lord if we are to make it to His Rest, seeing that they did not make it because of THEIR unfaithfulness. Paul, in reckoning that this could be true for us also, told us to watch over each other so that that heart of stubbornness (not being persuaded and thus, not obeying) will not be found it us also.

It will never be true for us who have full trust in God to keep his promise, We have entered his rest. And although we now have to grow, and some may not. We will enter Gods promise.

 

[Cassian]

The idea that one is saved, past tense, in dealing with one's personal salvation is not a valid scriptural understanding. We are in a covenant, a mutual covenant. That covenant has obligations for us. We are in a process of being saved. We are free individuals who can freely choose to continue in faith or discontinue. Faith is meaningless. It actually has no content. Faith becomes meaningful with it exhibits some action. Many hold to the view of faith alone. James says in 2:24 that faith alone is dead, It is the same faith that Satan possesses. However, he also states that works justifies ones faith. It makes faith actual or real. Consequently, all through the NT we have all these exhortations to do the works of faith, to remain faithful, to endure the trials and tribulations of life. If one abandons that faith and the obligations required, one cannot be saved.

It is the faith by which we are being saved. Then it states that we shall give an account of our works at the judgement? Why works and not faith? Faith is meaningless, dead, without the works. The works verifies, justifies, makes real one's faith.

 

[SeaBass]

Faith is meaningless, dead, without the works. The works verifies, justifies, makes real one's faith.

Lev 17:11 just like the flesh is dead without the blood, faith is dead without works. Blood gives life to flesh, works give life to faith. Remove the blood > kill the flesh. Remove the works > kill the faith.

 

[SeaBass]

No.

The theology of faith say you must do as Christ says (believe in the name of the only son of God. Call out on the name of the lord to be saved after you have humbled yourself and repented of the fact you can not save yourself.

Your theology states that one can work in the flesh (self will) and God will accept these works as payment for your sin. Which was not true in the OT and is no more true today.



As DC says,

You are mr twisty (I like that name)

Until you want to talk about what true faith vs what dead faith is. We will never agree.

Repenting and calling upon the name of the Lord are works, a CONDITION to receive grace thereby that makes receiving grace CONDITIONAL upon calling upon the name of the Lord. Even though God' extends grace to man, man must be willing to receive it 2 Cor 6:1 and man recieves this free grace by meeting the condtions God has put on it as calling on the name of the Lord.

I have not seen anyone here argue that they can save themselves by themselves. Is this strawman all the faith only advocates have to offer in rebuttal?

Peter did tell his listeners in Acts 2 to "save yourselves" as Paul told Timothy to "save thyself". Neither Peter nor Paul told anyone they can save themselves by themselves but one can save themselves in the sense of choosing to obey the conditions God has put on His free gift of grace. One can "lose himself" by NOT obeying those conditions.