Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[cfultz3]

Acts 2,8,16 are not folly but prove lost "dead men" can do something. Why would Peter command his listeners in Acts 2 to repent and be baptized if Peter knew there was no possible way for them to obey that command? The command itself implies ability and responsibility upon those lost people to choose to obey that command...which some chose to do.


You also post "Men can do nothing of Spiritual merit apart from Gods Spirit moving and giving Light that they might turn from darkness to His marvelous Light."


If this were true, then all those lost will be all 100% God's fault and blame for not "moving" His Spirit upon them. This reeks of Calvinism.

Except for the specific theological bashing, this is an excellent post.

 

[SeaBass]

They cannot save themselves. God does save every soul that comes to Christ and asks to be saved.

Ahh, so you have made salvation CONDITIONAL upon man doing the work in coming to Christ.


BUt you have also said "Men can do nothing of Spiritual merit apart from Gods Spirit moving and giving Light that they might turn from darkness to His marvelous Light"

So according to you, man is "dead" spiritually unable to come to Christ unless God first "moves" upon man. So we are back to where we were before: How does God decide which people lost in their sins and trespasses He wil "move" His spirit upon and which men He will NOT "move" His Spirit upon?

Romans 3 teaches us that all men are sinners in Gods eyes. God calls all men to be saved according to John 3:19-20 some come and some turn back. God is not willing that any should perish but some refuse to submit themselves to Gods will. They refuse Gods righteousness and seek their own righteousness which is not righteousness but evil in the sight of God.

Now wait a minute. You have said men are spiritually dead and cannot do anything. So how do some men decide to come and others decide to turn back? Accroding to you, NONE can come for ALL are "dead".

And why is God's desire that none should perish if HE is 100% in control of all the 'dead' men and can "move" upon ALL dead men and save all 'dead' men? According to you, if any perish it would be all God's fault for failing to 'move" His Spirit upon them.

Why do you resist God? I think of poor King Agrippa when he responded to Paul with "almost thou persuadest me". How sad that God sent Light into the world and men prefer darkness. There is no excuse before God. His Son is knowable.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God's Spirit fail to move upon King Agrippa? According to you, God's Son is not knowable unless God first "moves" His Spirit upon "dead" men. So if one does not know Christ, then that is God's fault for failing to "move" upon that person and that person does have excuse.

 

[SeaBass]

Except for the specific theological bashing,....

I hate Calvinism. It's just an all out assault upon the nature and character of God.

 

[JaumeJ]

Here is what I would like you to do. Go through the posts and show all just who here has ever said salvation is earned by works.

Learn the difference. Salvation without works is self-delusion, and frankly a very selfish notion.

Please do not put me in the same category as those who call teaching the commandments as being Judaizers, WE ARE NOT.

What do you say to those who accuse you of trying to earn your salvation by obeying the commandments of God?

 

[cfultz3]

I hate Calvinism. It's just an all out assault upon the nature and character of God.

I meant only that if you condemn, people will feel condemned and in return, will condemn. I feel that you make most of your points both logically and Scripturally, and being a person of intellect, you would understand what damage it does to one's argument when a reader has to process out negative overturn. A man with a Godly heart will offer the other cheek and ask if that is enough

Just a suggestion though.....

 

[SeaBass]

I meant only that if you condemn, people will feel condemned and in return, will condemn. I feel that you make most of your points both logically and Scripturally, and being a person of intellect, you would understand what damage it does to one's argument when a reader has to process out negative overturn. A man with a Godly heart will offer the other cheek and ask if that is enough

Just a suggestion though.....

Rev 2:15 "So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate"

There is no doubt in my mind at all that Christ would say the same of Calvinism. I hate whatever thing will cause men to be lost.

 

[JaumeJ]

Please Ignore this post. It is my understanding I have misunderstood the point you were making. Forgive me for that...........

[QUOTE=JaumeJ;1472881]
Here is what I would like you to do. Go through the posts and show all just who here has ever said salvation is earned by works.

Learn the difference. Salvation without works is self-delusion, and frankly a very selfish notion.

Please do not put me in the same category as those who call teaching the commandments as being Judaizers, WE ARE NOT.
[/QUOTE]

 

[SeaBass]

Here is what I would like you to do. Go through the posts and show all just who here has ever said salvation is earned by works.

Learn the difference. Salvation without works is self-delusion, and frankly a very selfish notion.

Please do not put me in the same category as those who call teaching the commandments as being Judaizers, WE ARE NOT.

There are those that say if you do works, as obeying God's commands, then you are trying to earn your salvation by doing those obedient works. Look at the posts of dcontroversial, BenFTW, eternallygratfull, nouptome

 

[Alligator]

I hate Calvinism. It's just an all out assault upon the nature and character of God.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Vaudeville]

In order for one to become a Christian, he MUST faithfully obey God in doing works of believing, Jn 8;24; repentance, Lk 13:3,5 confession, Matt 10:32,33 and submit to baptism, Mk 16:16.


Then upon becoming a Christian and remaining saved, the Christian MUST maintain an obedient faith, Rev 2:10, keeping Christ works Rev 2:26, continue walking in the light so all his sin can continually be cleansed, 1 Jn 1:7 and do good works that God pre-ordained Christians to wallk in, Eph 2:10, Matt 25:32ff


It therefore is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to do nothing his entire life and yet still be saved. No verse says "do nothing" to become a Christian and "do nothing" to remain a faithful Christian.

do nothing? can God save a mute paralytic in prison who hears the Good News and believes it?

 

[SeaBass]

do nothing? can God save a mute paralytic in prison who hears the Good News and believes it?

Can that mute paralytic in prison repent of his sins, do works meet for repentance? Publicly confess Christ, Mt 10:32,33, even with just a nod of the head, or blink of an eye? Be water baptized for remission of sins?

 

[Vaudeville]

Can that mute paralytic in prison repent of his sins, do works meet for repentance? Publicly confess Christ, Mt 10:32,33, even with just a nod of the head, or blink of an eye? Be water baptized for remission of sins?

do you have to see his repentance by the blink of an eye? what does it have to do with you?

 

[SeaBass]

do you have to see his repentance by the blink of an eye? what does it have to do with you?

Jesus said except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" Lk 13:3,5. So salvation is not possible without repenting.

 

[Vaudeville]

Jesus said except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" Lk 13:3,5. So salvation is not possible without repenting.

i asked...do you need him to blink his eye? what does it have to do with you?
can God read your mind?

 

[SeaBass]

i asked...do you need him to blink his eye? what does it have to do with you?
can God read your mind?

I never said it had anything to do with me. I am pointing out that God has said for one to be saved he must believe, Jn 8:24; repent of sins, Lk 13:3,4; confess Christ before men, Mt 10:32,33 and be baptized for remission of sins, Mk 16:16.

 

[cfultz3]

Can that mute paralytic in prison repent of his sins, do works meet for repentance? Publicly confess Christ, Mt 10:32,33, even with just a nod of the head, or blink of an eye? Be water baptized for remission of sins?

So, if a person cannot speak so as to repent by words he is damned?

If a person is locked up and thereby cannot go around to do works for repentance, he is not saved?

What of the baptism of the Spirit, does He not baptize into one Body?

If a prisoner can speak and repent and confess Jesus to other inmates, yet cannot be water baptized, he is lost?

 

[cfultz3]

Can that mute paralytic in prison repent of his sins

Yes, God knows the heart. We can also speak with our minds. I am sure God would not damn a person just because they are disabled and by which unable to speak words with their mouth. To say otherwise would be damning every mute soul just because they are disabled.

do works meet for repentance?

If he is unable, but yet having a contrite heart, would not God look at the contrite heart?

Publicly confess Christ, Mt 10:32,33, even with just a nod of the head, or blink of an eye?

Are all mutes damned? Are all paralytics damned? God certainly looks at the heart.

Be water baptized for remission of sins?

Has not God also to the Gentiles granted repentance into life? Does not the Spirit fall also upon the Gentiles? Surely, it is by one Spirit that we are baptized into one Body, both Jew and Gentile, both free and slaved, we all are made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[SeaBass]

So, if a person cannot speak so as to repent by words he is damned?

If a person is locked up and thereby cannot go around to do works for repentance, he is not saved?

What of the baptism of the Spirit, does He not baptize into one Body?

If a prisoner can speak and repent and confess Jesus to other inmates, yet cannot be water baptized, he is lost?

It would appear to me that if a mute paralytic is capable of committing a crime and get thrown in jail, he would be able to repent.

God has made belief, repentance, confession and baptism necessary to salvation. Jail does not change what God has said.

 

[SeaBass]

Yes, God knows the heart. We can also speak with our minds. I am sure God would not damn a person just because they are disabled and by which unable to speak words with their mouth. To say otherwise would be damning every mute soul just because they are disabled.


If he is unable, but yet having a contrite heart, would not God look at the contrite heart?


Are all mutes damned? Are all paralytics damned? God certainly looks at the heart.


Has not God also to the Gentiles granted repentance into life? Does not the Spirit fall also upon the Gentiles? Surely, it is by one Spirit that we are baptized into one Body, both Jew and Gentile, both free and slaved, we all are made to drink into one Spirit.

I do not see God requiring a mute person to speak, but a mute person can confess Christ before men, Mt 10:32,33 with some simple affirmative acknowledgement.


Being in jail, or anywhere else, does not change what God has said. One has to repent the best as he is able to repent.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not the one baptism of Eph 4:5, not the baptism of the great commission that is commanded, not the baptism that saves, not the baptism that lasts till the end of time. The one baptism is the human administered water baptism of the great commission, the baptism the eunuch was baptized with that saves.

 

[cfultz3]

It would appear to me that if a mute paralytic is capable of committing a crime and get thrown in jail, he would be able to repent.

God has made belief, repentance, confession and baptism necessary to salvation. Jail does not change what God has said.

That is logical, but, if you do not mind, let us stick with your first reply.

So, say if he became mute and paralytic in jail and during that time he begins to experience the Spirit's conviction.

But because he is not able to speak with words from his mouth, he cannot repent and thus is damned?

What is made of the Scriptural knowledge that a sacrifice to God is a spirit being broken, that He does not despise a broken and humbled heart?