Should we stand with Israel?

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Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
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#82
So you say that there is a true state of israel, but founded by and composed of false Jews?

I do not understand you much, you seem to be inconsistent.
The Israel in the past was composed of believing and non-believing Jews also. Today the nation of Israel and the Jews are in a period of judgement for their unbelief. The nation has been given over to judicial blindness from God till the 'times of the Gentiles be come in'. (Rom. 11:25)

You understand. You just don't like it.

Quantrill
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#83
The Israel in the past was composed of believing and non-believing Jews also. Today the nation of Israel and the Jews are in a period of judgement for their unbelief. The nation has been given over to judicial blindness from God till the 'times of the Gentiles be come in'. (Rom. 11:25)

You understand. You just don't like it.

Quantrill
So, false Jews founded a state of Israel and we must stand with those unbelieving and false Jews and support them and defend them.

Interesting. But wrong.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#84
1. I never said it was a passport to heaven
2. The bible says at the PRESENT TIME there is a remnant, But there will be a time when ALL will be saved
3. Just because they have no desire today does nto mean they wil have no desire tomorrow.

4. It has everything to do with repenting. God told Isreal through moses if they repent, He will remember the land.. Sadly this offends some people that God will keep his eternal promise..
God doesn't want anyone to perish but the sad fact is that thousands do everyday including Jewish people whether they are in Israel or not. God remembered the land when he allowed the Jews to return from Babylon the difference between then and now is that those who returned then had repented those who are there now havn't. Paul recognised that not everyone who claimed to be part of Israel
is part of Israel. In Revelation some worship the Antichrist as Messiah and Jerusalem is called Sodom and Egypt. Are they part of Israel
as well?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,310
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#85
Should we stand with Israel?
The question one first needs to ask oneself is:

"What do you mean by Israel" as it means different things to different people?
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
988
300
63
#86
So, false Jews founded a state of Israel and we must stand with those unbelieving and false Jews and support them and defend them.

Interesting. But wrong.
Concerning the state of Israel today, it was mostly accomplished by Gentile nations. Jews always had a hope of returning to the land again, but it would take WW2 before that was possible. The important thing is that the Jews returned back to the land. Even though they are still under a judicial blindness, they are in the land. All of which was necessary for the end time events to happen.

It is always wise to help the Jews. We don't agree with their unbelief. But our nation doesn't require Christian belief when it helps other nations. The nation moves in the secular realm. It helps for political reasons. We who are Christian recognize the real reason Israel is being helped by us, and that is God.

Quantrill
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#87
Concerning the state of Israel today, it was mostly accomplished by Gentile nations. Jews always had a hope of returning to the land again, but it would take WW2 before that was possible. The important thing is that the Jews returned back to the land. Even though they are still under a judicial blindness, they are in the land. All of which was necessary for the end time events to happen.
Thats all nice but I do not see any special work of God in this equation. No calling, no prophets with God's messages to Jews to return, nothing. Its all just worldly, political, nationalistic. No second Esdras.

It is always wise to help the Jews. We don't agree with their unbelief. But our nation doesn't require Christian belief when it helps other nations. The nation moves in the secular realm. It helps for political reasons. We who are Christian recognize the real reason Israel is being helped by us, and that is God.
I have nothing agaist political cooperation, common defense etc. But there is no theological reason for this. Its just a democratic secular state in the middle east.

I have a question - as a dispenstionalist, do you believe that Jews in Israel will be massacred by the antichrist whom they will blindly accept as their Messiah, first?
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
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#88
Thats all nice but I do not see any special work of God in this equation. No calling, no prophets with God's messages to Jews to return, nothing. Its all just worldly, political, nationalistic. No second Esdras.



I have nothing agaist political cooperation, common defense etc. But there is no theological reason for this. Its just a democratic secular state in the middle east.

I have a question - as a dispenstionalist, do you believe that Jews in Israel will be massacred by the antichrist whom they will blindly accept as their Messiah, first?
The accomplishment and fulfillment of the prophecies concerning Israel and the Jews will occur in the physical world. It doesn't matter that the U.S. and England were doing it for political reasons. God moves nations to accomplish His will. Israel needed to be back in the land for the fulfillment of end time events. To the world it is just a democratic state. To God it is the people from whom He has given the promises of the Abrahamic Covenant. And as I showed you already, He will be faithful to Israel.

Of course, the anti-christ will turn against the Jews and kill many.

Quantrill
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#89
Of course, the anti-christ will turn against the Jews and kill many.
And this will be the worst possible massacre of Jews, even worse than the one in 70 AD and worse than the one made by Hitler, right? Almost all will die.

So, should you not be warning Jews to run out of Israel to save themselves, instead of supporting them to move there only to die by a terrible death in a near future?
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#90
With the tension around Israel what should Christians be doing.
They are just like any other nation unless they become christian. God's people are now spiritual Israel, no longer physical Israel. We should pray for everyone.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
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#91
And this will be the worst possible massacre of Jews, even worse than the one in 70 AD and worse than the one made by Hitler, right? Almost all will die.

So, should you not be warning Jews to run out of Israel to save themselves, instead of supporting them to move there only to die by a terrible death in a near future?
The Tribulation period will be worse than any other that has preceded in history.

It is God Who wants and has brought Israel back into the land. He is not finished with their judgement. The Tribulation period is part of that judgement. Our message to the Jews is the same as it is to anyone else today. Believe on Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Those few who have received Christ will become part of the Church, and will miss the Tribulation as the Church has been removed at this time.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
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#92
They are just like any other nation unless they become christian. God's people are now spiritual Israel, no longer physical Israel. We should pray for everyone.
Nothing wrong with praying for anyone you want to. But the Church is not spiritual Israel.

Quantrill
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
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#93
The Tribulation period will be worse than any other that has preceded in history.

It is God Who wants and has brought Israel back into the land. He is not finished with their judgement. The Tribulation period is part of that judgement. Our message to the Jews is the same as it is to anyone else today. Believe on Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Those few who have received Christ will become part of the Church, and will miss the Tribulation as the Church has been removed at this time.

Quantrill
So, why to support the state of Israel, theologically? When we believe that they will all die soon? Its like sending them to Germany before and during the WWII.

Dispensationalists are basically sending as much Jews as possible to be killed. You should, morally, try to get jews out of the Israel, before the terrible judgement come.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
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#94
So, why to support the state of Israel, theologically? When we believe that they will all die soon? Its like sending them to Germany before and during the WWII.

Dispensationalists are basically sending as much Jews as possible to be killed. You should, morally, try to get jews out of the Israel, before the terrible judgement come.
I didn't say they would all die soon. They all won't die. Many will. Again, I am not sending the Jews anywhere. God is. And I have already explained the reasons.

Your last statement is a foolish statement.

Quantrill
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#95
I didn't say they would all die soon. They all won't die. Many will. Again, I am not sending the Jews anywhere. God is. And I have already explained the reasons.

Your last statement is a foolish statement.

Quantrill
You believe it will be the worst situation for Jews in history. Hitler killed 5 millions of Jews. There are 5 millions of Jews in israel.

How many do you guess will survive? 144,000? This is crazy. Let us all make them run away before its too late. Let us stop rejoicing and supporting them to move there, its quite antisemitic, regarding dispensationalism.

I can accept dispensationalism neither biblically nor morally.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
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#96
You believe it will be the worst situation for Jews in history. Hitler killed 5 millions of Jews. There are 5 millions of Jews in israel.

How many do you guess will survive? 144,000? This is crazy. Let them all make run away before its late. Let us stop rejoicing and supporting them to move there, its quite antisemitic, regarding dispensationalism.
Well, the Tribulation is gong to be a terrible time. There won't be millions when it is all said and done.

The 144,000 will survive, but there will be others also.

Ah, yes, we must twist the motive. I who support Israel and the Jews am the one who is antisemitic. You on the other hand are not though you don't support Israel and believe the Jews should leave the land. What a wordsmith.

Quantrill
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
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#97
Well, the Tribulation is gong to be a terrible time. There won't be millions when it is all said and done.

The 144,000 will survive, but there will be others also.

Ah, yes, we must twist the motive. I who support Israel and the Jews am the one who is antisemitic. You on the other hand are not though you don't support Israel and believe the Jews should leave the land. What a wordsmith.

Quantrill
You are supporting Israel full of unbelieving Jews and you believe they will be judged, destroyed and massacred there.

Hm, I do not know, this is too schizofrenic for me to accept as a serious belief or theology...I will better stay politically neutral and support Christians, the real people of God.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#98
People seem to have lost sight of this key part of Gods promise to Abraham.
No one has lost sight of the key part “In you shall all te nation be blessed”

Sadly, Many have forgotten the part which was directed direcly at abraham and his one son (Isaac and Jacob) and all of their descendents.

They want to toss it out like it means nothing. Well it might not mean anythign to you. But it Does to God who made the promise, and it does to the family to whome the promise was given.
 

Quantrill

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2018
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#99
You are supporting Israel full of unbelieving Jews and you believe they will be judged, destroyed and massacred there.

Hm, I do not know, this is too schizofrenic for me to accept as a serious belief or theology...I will better stay politically neutral and support Christians, the real people of God.
I support God's choice of people. I believe God's promises to them as a people.

I didn't say Christians were not the people of God.

Stay neutral all you want.

Quantrill
 
Mar 14, 2011
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God doesn't want anyone to perish but the sad fact is that thousands do everyday including Jewish people whether they are in Israel or not. God remembered the land when he allowed the Jews to return from Babylon the difference between then and now is that those who returned then had repented those who are there now havn't. Paul recognised that not everyone who claimed to be part of Israel
is part of Israel. In Revelation some worship the Antichrist as Messiah and Jerusalem is called Sodom and Egypt. Are they part of Israel
as well?
Your right, the people now have not repented

prophesy says THEY WILL REPENT. And when this happens. Just like God did with babylon, he will return them again. Except that time, Davids son will be on the throne.


Saying jews today have not repented so God does not have to keep his promise if they ever do. Is not right.