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F
Lol. No If you read the post, no one layed their hands on the Apostles, in Acts 2 he fell on them. That is the baptism of the HS.
As for paul, I believe the same happened to him, although because of the wording it can be argued as to exactly what happened to him.
The Baptism of the HS only happened 2 times in scripture, acts 2 and 10.
I covered them in the post, might want to take a look when you have time.
As for paul, I believe the same happened to him, although because of the wording it can be argued as to exactly what happened to him.
The Baptism of the HS only happened 2 times in scripture, acts 2 and 10.
I covered them in the post, might want to take a look when you have time.
Acts 19:5 - more baptisms with tongues and prophecy.
I Cor. 12:13 - "For by one Spirit are we All baptized into one body.......and have been made to drink of one Spirit."
More baptisms into the body of Christ by ONE Spirit.
What do you claim is the difference between being baptized by the Holy Spirit and being baptized into the body of Jesus Christ by
that same Spirit?
I Cor. 12:13 - "For by one Spirit are we All baptized into one body.......and have been made to drink of one Spirit."
More baptisms into the body of Christ by ONE Spirit.
What do you claim is the difference between being baptized by the Holy Spirit and being baptized into the body of Jesus Christ by
that same Spirit?
F
"By" and "in" have different meanings.
We are all baptized by the same Spirirt into one body.
Who adds us to the body? Who commands baptism? It is the Spirit, through the writtings of men.
When we abide by His words, we are baptized by the Spirit, cleansed and added to the body of Christ.
When the Apostles were baptized with the HS, he fell on them, without the laying on of hands. They were "immersed" in the Spirit.
Yet later, God wants to show Peter he has chosen the Gentiles, so he sends him to cournilous, and while Peter is speaking, the Holy Spirit falls on Corn. This astonishes Peter, because he did not think that was possible, and tells the other Jews, "he fell on them as on us at the beginning" referring back to Acts 2.
Sense Peter did not have to lay his hands on them, like he did with those in Acts 8, it showed him God chose the Gentiles worthy of Salvation.
Just as Jesus chose the Apostles himself. The Baptism of the HS showed this.
Paul now says there is ONE baptism, and it is the baptism that adds us to the body of Christ, in the name of Jesus.
This baptism is still done by the same Spirit.
We are all baptized by the same Spirirt into one body.
Who adds us to the body? Who commands baptism? It is the Spirit, through the writtings of men.
When we abide by His words, we are baptized by the Spirit, cleansed and added to the body of Christ.
When the Apostles were baptized with the HS, he fell on them, without the laying on of hands. They were "immersed" in the Spirit.
Yet later, God wants to show Peter he has chosen the Gentiles, so he sends him to cournilous, and while Peter is speaking, the Holy Spirit falls on Corn. This astonishes Peter, because he did not think that was possible, and tells the other Jews, "he fell on them as on us at the beginning" referring back to Acts 2.
Sense Peter did not have to lay his hands on them, like he did with those in Acts 8, it showed him God chose the Gentiles worthy of Salvation.
Just as Jesus chose the Apostles himself. The Baptism of the HS showed this.
Paul now says there is ONE baptism, and it is the baptism that adds us to the body of Christ, in the name of Jesus.
This baptism is still done by the same Spirit.
God isn't like that.
He poured His Spirit out on all flesh.
Young will dream dreams and old will prophecy.
No respect of persons with God.
Notice the term - "and have been made to drink of one Spirit."
Have you been baptized physically? Notice how the water surrounds you?
So it is with the Holy Spirit.
God gave it to us to be surrounded by it. Paracleate : Para -beside; cleate - stick to.
He poured His Spirit out on all flesh.
Young will dream dreams and old will prophecy.
No respect of persons with God.
Notice the term - "and have been made to drink of one Spirit."
Have you been baptized physically? Notice how the water surrounds you?
So it is with the Holy Spirit.
God gave it to us to be surrounded by it. Paracleate : Para -beside; cleate - stick to.
The Spirit falls on all who call upon Jesus' name from the bottom of their hearts.
It is not a thing where it was only given to certain people.....to then give it to others......who then give it to others.
Can you imagine how screwed up the church would be if God did it that way?
By the fourth generation people would be drinking whiskey and laying on hands.
God doesn't respect people(flesh) in this way.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are alive and well.
But those that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
It is not a thing where it was only given to certain people.....to then give it to others......who then give it to others.
Can you imagine how screwed up the church would be if God did it that way?
By the fourth generation people would be drinking whiskey and laying on hands.
God doesn't respect people(flesh) in this way.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are alive and well.
But those that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
Outward baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God, not the putting off of the filth of the flesh. Peter 3:21
It has nothing to do with the blood of Jesus cleansing us.(That is Spiritual, and therefore inward)
The thief on the cross was never baptized.
I Cor. 13:10 cannot be speaking of gifts.
Do you know yourself as you are known?
Not yet you don't.
The chapter is about Love, and Paul goes on to say we should seek for the more edifying gifts, like prophecy, in chapter 14.
So we can edify the body, also Paul spake with tongues more than them all. - I Cor. 14:18.
It has nothing to do with the blood of Jesus cleansing us.(That is Spiritual, and therefore inward)
The thief on the cross was never baptized.
I Cor. 13:10 cannot be speaking of gifts.
Do you know yourself as you are known?
Not yet you don't.
The chapter is about Love, and Paul goes on to say we should seek for the more edifying gifts, like prophecy, in chapter 14.
So we can edify the body, also Paul spake with tongues more than them all. - I Cor. 14:18.
G
By grace do ye receive the Holy Spirit through _______?
Through what, feedbuddy?
WHAT IS ONE of the gifts of the Holy Spirits? Faith.
And, IF we receive the Holy Spirit, we have power from Him. So, do we then do what with His chosen power for us. God chose us right (John 15:16).
This FAITH eXPANDS much further than just for salvation, for by its understanding do we get past the 'elementary 'milk' teachings to the 'solid food,' for the Corinth church HAD the spiritual gifts in their midst, not sure how Paul knew but He ascertained it somehow. From God. So, the gifts were present, therefore, to not just the disciples who became 'apostles' called (Luke 6:13), but ALL could use the gifts if....
And so it's said, and, can't 'the perfect be seen in this Scripture too, not just gifts continuation stated, for their time but ALSO to when Christ returns, which Paul didn't know the day or the hour either?
Through what, feedbuddy?
WHAT IS ONE of the gifts of the Holy Spirits? Faith.
And, IF we receive the Holy Spirit, we have power from Him. So, do we then do what with His chosen power for us. God chose us right (John 15:16).
This FAITH eXPANDS much further than just for salvation, for by its understanding do we get past the 'elementary 'milk' teachings to the 'solid food,' for the Corinth church HAD the spiritual gifts in their midst, not sure how Paul knew but He ascertained it somehow. From God. So, the gifts were present, therefore, to not just the disciples who became 'apostles' called (Luke 6:13), but ALL could use the gifts if....
And so it's said, and, can't 'the perfect be seen in this Scripture too, not just gifts continuation stated, for their time but ALSO to when Christ returns, which Paul didn't know the day or the hour either?
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"Be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins." Acts 2:38
"And there are three that bear witness on earth: the spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one." I John 5:8
Both scriptures address spiritual conditions, not physical immersion.
Being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ was being born into His life. (A spirit happening)
Because the name signifies the life. To be born into a name was to be born into a life.
If a son was disowned, then he lost his father's name and his inheritance.
If a person was given a name-(John, the son of Zebedee), then he was given an inheritance.
Being baptized into the name of Jesus Christ is to be baptized into His life. And therefore given the legal right to be an heir to His estate.
(It is all spiritual)
As for I John 5:8, that verse could mean a variety of things. - Even in context it is hard to decipher.
The water could be the Word : (the washing of the water by the word Ephesians 5:26); or it could signify the physical life : (we are born of water- John 3:5,6).
To emphatically state it as a pretext for a doctrine is tenuous.
"And there are three that bear witness on earth: the spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one." I John 5:8
Both scriptures address spiritual conditions, not physical immersion.
Being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ was being born into His life. (A spirit happening)
Because the name signifies the life. To be born into a name was to be born into a life.
If a son was disowned, then he lost his father's name and his inheritance.
If a person was given a name-(John, the son of Zebedee), then he was given an inheritance.
Being baptized into the name of Jesus Christ is to be baptized into His life. And therefore given the legal right to be an heir to His estate.
(It is all spiritual)
As for I John 5:8, that verse could mean a variety of things. - Even in context it is hard to decipher.
The water could be the Word : (the washing of the water by the word Ephesians 5:26); or it could signify the physical life : (we are born of water- John 3:5,6).
To emphatically state it as a pretext for a doctrine is tenuous.
M
feedm3, I'm not goin to address all those big long posts, at least not all at once. It's simply too time consuming, unfruitful, and frustrating to me. So if you want to continue this conversation, pick 1-2 small things that you want me to address first, and we'll go from there.
Err... that's not quite what the gift of faith is. We all have a measure of faith that's apportioned to us.
For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
Romans 12:3
The gift of faith is a supernatural faith (remember, the gifts are supernatural) for a specific time and purpose. It usually works in conjunction with the other gifts. The gift of faith generally involves a boldness. For example, Abraham had bold faith, saying that God would provide an animal for the sacrifice, and He did. (Genesis 22:1-14)
Peter told a lame man to rise and walk in the name of Jesus Christ, and he was healed immediately (Acts 3:1-10). Peter spoke out because of the gift of faith, then came the gift of working of miracles when it happened.
Err... that's not quite what the gift of faith is. We all have a measure of faith that's apportioned to us.
For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
Romans 12:3
The gift of faith is a supernatural faith (remember, the gifts are supernatural) for a specific time and purpose. It usually works in conjunction with the other gifts. The gift of faith generally involves a boldness. For example, Abraham had bold faith, saying that God would provide an animal for the sacrifice, and He did. (Genesis 22:1-14)
Peter told a lame man to rise and walk in the name of Jesus Christ, and he was healed immediately (Acts 3:1-10). Peter spoke out because of the gift of faith, then came the gift of working of miracles when it happened.
F
Hello Rick,
I posted that first just to say, you sure are quick to write things off and make such a comment. It's not a "pretext" when their are many supporting passages to back the interpretation.
So I ask to at least hear me out, then make your conclusions.
I Jn 5:8 is very plain, the context is not that hard, it does not effect what was written in verse 8, verse 7 is spurious, not verse 8.
I will give more support for what I said below, but first I will begining with the top of your post.
I posted that first just to say, you sure are quick to write things off and make such a comment. It's not a "pretext" when their are many supporting passages to back the interpretation.
So I ask to at least hear me out, then make your conclusions.
I Jn 5:8 is very plain, the context is not that hard, it does not effect what was written in verse 8, verse 7 is spurious, not verse 8.
I will give more support for what I said below, but first I will begining with the top of your post.
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M
feedm3, you liked my post, but you didn't tell me which topic you wanted me to address first. Which topic?
1. Only apostles can impart the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands.
2. the gift of the word of knowledge.
3. the gifts of healing.
4. the gifts having ceased.
5. Some other topic (you tell me).
1. Only apostles can impart the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands.
2. the gift of the word of knowledge.
3. the gifts of healing.
4. the gifts having ceased.
5. Some other topic (you tell me).
F
Bro, I am not going to pick what you should deal with, that's your choice. Just start where you want or what you want to tackle first, it does not matter to me. I 'liked' your explaination of the gift of faith vs faith, I should have made that clear I guess.
I hope you read my post on the other page, where I apologized, just want to be sure you read that before we continue.
I hope you read my post on the other page, where I apologized, just want to be sure you read that before we continue.
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G
It is not talking about knowing yourself...
But,as for the rest - I would tend to agree.
all:
The 'that which is in part' in verse 10 is referring to the two things which are "in part" in verse 9. ("Yes - both of them.")
The idea is that "when that which is perfect is come" - there will no longer be [anything] that is "in part" - all will be "in full" - as in 'complete'.
The word 'perfect' means "mature" or "complete" (and 'that' is a "what" not a "who"). The words 'is come' cause the whole phrase to imply:
"At the time when 'that' reaches maturity."
Essentially, "the maturing of time" or "the end of the age"...
I believe it is referring to that time when:
~ Christ comes back.
~ "the mystery of God should be finished." (Revelation 10:7)
~ we receive our "glorified" body.
('all things' will be "complete", and my understanding will be "full")
"but then shall I know even as also I am known."
No more mystery:
"now we see through a glass, darkly" (chapter 13 verse 12)
Verses 9-12 are talking about 'understanding' - and have nothing whatsoever [directly] to do with "spiritual gifts"...
Verse 11 is an "aside" from verse 10 - for the purpose of illustration - of verse 10.
Verses 9-12 are an "aside" from verse 8 - for the purpose of explanation - of verse 8.
Verse 8 makes a reference to [certain] "spiritual gifts" (in illustration); however, "Charity" is the topic and the focus, not "spiritual gifts" - and, that does not change.
The entire chapter 13 is an explanation of the last half of chapter 12 verse 31:
"and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."
A "departure" from "spiritual gifts" (as both the "main topic" and the focus) is made at chapter 12 verse 31. That "focus" does not return to the "main topic" until chapter 14 verse 1. This is important.
I do not believe 'that which is perfect' (chapter 13 verse 10) is referring to Christ Himself (the person).
I do not even believe it is referring to "the Second Coming of Christ" - in particular.
It is just that "the Second Coming of Christ" is what "brings it about" - brings "the age" to "maturity" or "completeness"...
.
But,as for the rest - I would tend to agree.
all:
The 'that which is in part' in verse 10 is referring to the two things which are "in part" in verse 9. ("Yes - both of them.")
The idea is that "when that which is perfect is come" - there will no longer be [anything] that is "in part" - all will be "in full" - as in 'complete'.
The word 'perfect' means "mature" or "complete" (and 'that' is a "what" not a "who"). The words 'is come' cause the whole phrase to imply:
"At the time when 'that' reaches maturity."
Essentially, "the maturing of time" or "the end of the age"...
I believe it is referring to that time when:
~ Christ comes back.
~ "the mystery of God should be finished." (Revelation 10:7)
~ we receive our "glorified" body.
('all things' will be "complete", and my understanding will be "full")
"but then shall I know even as also I am known."
No more mystery:
"now we see through a glass, darkly" (chapter 13 verse 12)
Verses 9-12 are talking about 'understanding' - and have nothing whatsoever [directly] to do with "spiritual gifts"...
Verse 11 is an "aside" from verse 10 - for the purpose of illustration - of verse 10.
Verses 9-12 are an "aside" from verse 8 - for the purpose of explanation - of verse 8.
Verse 8 makes a reference to [certain] "spiritual gifts" (in illustration); however, "Charity" is the topic and the focus, not "spiritual gifts" - and, that does not change.
The entire chapter 13 is an explanation of the last half of chapter 12 verse 31:
"and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."
A "departure" from "spiritual gifts" (as both the "main topic" and the focus) is made at chapter 12 verse 31. That "focus" does not return to the "main topic" until chapter 14 verse 1. This is important.
I do not believe 'that which is perfect' (chapter 13 verse 10) is referring to Christ Himself (the person).
I do not even believe it is referring to "the Second Coming of Christ" - in particular.
It is just that "the Second Coming of Christ" is what "brings it about" - brings "the age" to "maturity" or "completeness"...
.
M
Very well, I'll start with the first one.
1. Only apostles can impart the Holy Spirit by laying on hands.
It only takes 1 example of a non-apostle laying on hands and imparting the Holy Spirit to disprove this idea, and we have one such example.
Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; and taking food, he was strengthened.
Acts 9:10-18
Ananias is never identified as an apostle. Here he is identified as a disciple. Later in Acts 22, he's described as a devout man of the law. No mention of him being an apostle. But yet, he clearly laid hands on Paul so that he could regain his sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit (verse 17).
Therefore, the reason the Holy Spirit didn't fall on the people in Acts 8 was not because Philip was not an apostle. (The actual reason is something we cannot claim to know, due to a lack of details.)
1. Only apostles can impart the Holy Spirit by laying on hands.
It only takes 1 example of a non-apostle laying on hands and imparting the Holy Spirit to disprove this idea, and we have one such example.
Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; and taking food, he was strengthened.
Acts 9:10-18
Ananias is never identified as an apostle. Here he is identified as a disciple. Later in Acts 22, he's described as a devout man of the law. No mention of him being an apostle. But yet, he clearly laid hands on Paul so that he could regain his sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit (verse 17).
Therefore, the reason the Holy Spirit didn't fall on the people in Acts 8 was not because Philip was not an apostle. (The actual reason is something we cannot claim to know, due to a lack of details.)