The Doctrine of Hell: Under Attack

[Magenta]

There are quite a few places in the Bible where forever is not
meant to be taken to mean without end. Here are a few of them:

Sodom's fiery judgment is 'eternal' (Jude 7) - until...
God 'will restore the fortunes of Sodom' (Eze. 16:53-55).

Israel's 'affliction is incurable' (Jeremiah 30:12) - until... the
Lord 'will restore health' and heal her wounds (Jeremiah 30:17).

The sin of Samaria 'is incurable' (Micah 1:9) - until...
Lord 'will restore the fortunes of Samaria.' (Ez. 16:53).

Ammon is to become a 'wasteland forever' and 'rise no more' (Zephaniah 2:9, Jeremiah 25:27) - until... the Lord will 'restore the fortunes of the Ammonites' (Jeremiah 49:6).

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's
congregation 'forever' - until... the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were 'everlasting',
that is - until... they 'were shattered' (Habakkuk 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an 'everlasting' priesthood (Exodus 40:15),
- until... it was superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews 7:14-18).

Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell
in Solomon's Temple 'forever' (1 Kings 8:13) - until... the Temple was destroyed.

The Law of Moses was to be an 'everlasting covenant' (Leviticus 24:8), yet we read in the New Covenant the first was 'done away' and 'abolished' (2 Corinthians 3:11,13), and God 'made the first old' (Hebrews 8:13).

The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be a 'perpetual' - until... Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Leviticus 6:12-13, Hebrews 8:6-13).

God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah 'forever' - until... the Lord delivers
him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1:17).

Egypt and Elam will 'rise no more' (Jeremiah 25:27) - until... the Lord will'restore the fortunes of Egypt' (Ezekiel 29:14) and 'restore the fortunes of Elam' (Jeremiah 49:39).

'Moab is destroyed' (Jeremiah 48:4, 42) - until... the Lord 'will restore the fortunes of Moab' (Jeremiah 48:47).

Israel's judgment lasts 'forever' - until... the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isaiah 32:13-15).

The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bond slave
was to serve his master 'forever' (Exodus 21:6), that is - until... his death.

 

[Limey410v2]

Funny how some of you go directly against what the Bible teaches here....Where does it say in the Bible that the Holy Spirit uses fear of hell to lead someone to repentance?!

Amen, 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

 

[preacher4truth]

Amen, 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

With all due respect that passage has not one thing to do with any lost person. The "us" refers to the elect saved, not to the lost in need of salvation.

 

[preacher4truth]

Funny how some of you go directly against what the Bible teaches here....Where does it say in the Bible that the Holy Spirit uses fear of hell to lead someone to repentance?!

You're off track as per usual, looking for a proof text while making a logical fallacy.

When the Holy Spirit convicts a person of their sin and lost state, hmmmm, wonder if perhaps a fear of hell and eternal punishment might ensue in the lost sinners heart? But of course.

Frankly, it is you who are going directly against what the Bible teaches, not others. You're way off track as per usual.

 

[Ahwatukee]

People will believe what makes them feel better. When the father reveals these same things to yall i wonder what will be the response from annihilationist.

You know what is really nonsensical when it comes to annihilationist's? We have celebrities, rock stars and everyday people committing suicide, expecting that they will become nonexistent once they kill themselves. And annihilationist's are telling us that God's punishment for them will be, exactly what they were trying for, nonexistence. That's like someone holding a gun to their head bent on shooting themselves and the police ordering him to put the gun down or they'll shoot!

 

[Locutus]

Maybe it would be better to preach on eternal life, and about knowing the truth that sets one free.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Amen, 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Excuse me Limey410v2, but in all truth, the above is a good example of taking scripture out of context. The fear that Paul is talking to Timothy about is not regarding the fear God, but the fear of preaching the gospel for fear of persecution. Below is the rest of the scripture:

"For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power, love, and self-control. So do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, or of me, His prisoner. Instead, join me in suffering for the gospel by the power of God.

So, it is not saying that we should not fear God, but that Timothy should not fear testifying about Christ for fear of persecution.

 

[Meggido]

You're off track as per usual, looking for a proof text while making a logical fallacy.

When the Holy Spirit convicts a person of their sin and lost state, hmmmm, wonder if perhaps a fear of hell and eternal punishment might ensue in the lost sinners heart? But of course.

Frankly, it is you who are going directly against what the Bible teaches, not others. You're way off track as per usual.

Romans 2.4-
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

I posted scripture you posted an perosnal attack and personal opinion.....

I have witnessed 20-30 come to the altar when a preacher preached hell fire, damnation and brimstone and never saw those people darken a church house again and saw them out in the world once again living like hell....I have also witnessed the Love of God create sorrow according to the will of God, leading to salvation..hit 1-5 and their life was transformed...

Instead of offering up assumptions about how the Holy Spirit moves on people, why not just stick to the Word and what it says....

 

[PrynceNY]

You know what is really nonsensical when it comes to annihilationist's? We have celebrities, rock stars and everyday people committing suicide, expecting that they will become nonexistent once they kill themselves. And annihilationist's are telling us that God's punishment for them will be, exactly what they were trying for, nonexistence. That's like someone holding a gun to their head bent on shooting themselves and the police ordering him to put the gun down or they'll shoot!

I've heard insiders in the entertainment industry talk about how they were told what to promote and they cannot talk about God specifically Jesus. When they do talk about God it has dual meaning. So when they say "Thank God" its not the same God we worship the one of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but the God of this world Satan. It's true those celebrities who may be annihilationist may have the mentality, imma sin all i want, be famous / rich and lead others to hell but doesn't bother them cause they believe they will "cease to exist" once they leave this world. But they are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Meggido]

Maybe it would be better to preach on eternal life, and about knowing the truth that sets one free.

That is preaching for something and is hard......and requires one to actually stop and listen to what the Spirit is saying to the church...

 

[Ahwatukee]

Thank you PrynceNY for reminding me of this one.

Revelation 14​

9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.11“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”





This is baseless, fabricated, & utterly stupid.

I would have to whole-heartedly agree with you here, as Valiant is really grasping at straws. When the truth is made known they scramble to produce an apologetic and silly ones at that!

There is no confusion whatsoever regarding what Rev.14:9-11 is proclaiming and it ain't even close to what Valiant said.

 

[valiant]

You know what is really nonsensical when it comes to annihilationist's? We have celebrities, rock stars and everyday people committing suicide, expecting that they will become nonexistent once they kill themselves. And annihilationist's are telling us that God's punishment for them will be, exactly what they were trying for, nonexistence. That's like someone holding a gun to their head bent on shooting themselves and the police ordering him to put the gun down or they'll shoot!

That depends on what happens before destruction. Some will be punished with many stripes. Some with few stripes. Your examples would in some cases receive many stripes.


I wonder how you fit 'few stripes' into eternal conscious punishment ??.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by Stephen63

Thank you PrynceNY for reminding me of this one.

Revelation 14​

9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.11“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

I would have to whole-heartedly agree with you here, as Valiant is really grasping at straws. When the truth is made known they scramble to produce an apologetic and silly ones at that!

There is no confusion whatsoever regarding what Rev.14:9-11 is proclaiming and it ain't even close to what Valiant said.

well if you think that providing a spectacle of suffering to the Lamb and the holy angels so that they can watch it for ever fits in with your idea of God, you must have a strange idea of God..#

I prefer my interpretation to yours.

But then you display your delight in the prospect of watching it yourselves, so it doesn't surprise me. Only fills me with sadness.

 

[Crustyone]

destruction and torment are two very different things. How could eternal torment possibly be described as being punished with 'few stripes' (Luke 12)

Because it is stressing the eternal nature of it. See Isaiah 66.24.

Where is eternal conscious torment mentioned? They are punished with many stripes, as opposed to those punished with few stripes. But it does not say eternally.

How about Revelation 14:9-11?
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

 

[Locutus]

I want to know what the Zebra did to get all these stripes:

 

[Magenta]

It is one of his silly apologetics where he is forced to grasp at straws

 

[Magenta]

I want to know what the Zebra did to get all these stripes:

First, you must tell us whether those are many or few stripes...

 

[Locutus]

First, you must tell us whether those are many or few stripes...

I don't there's much room for many more...

 

[valiant]

No offense but those who believe in annihilation reflects worldly thinking to me. Its rebellion against the most high supreme being not earthly crimes we punish here. In addition to that there's no reason for people to go to Hell when Christ paid the price for them not to. For people to rebel against God and reject the son who was treated brutally and died for them is probably one of the highest offenses to the father.

But it fits in better with His compassion on the just and the unjust. Do you really thing that the One Who died for us on a cross wishes to gloat over the punishment of the wicked (many stripes) and the not so wicked ('few stripes') for eternity? (Luke 12; Rev 14)

 

[Crustyone]

well if you think that providing a spectacle of suffering to the Lamb and the holy angels so that they can watch it for ever fits in with your idea of God, you must have a strange idea of God..#

I prefer my interpretation to yours.

But then you display your delight in the prospect of watching it yourselves, so it doesn't surprise me. Only fills me with sadness.

Don't forget that God also hates. Esau and Jacob come to mind and also Proverbs 6:12-19
12 A troublemaker and a villain,
who goes about with a corrupt mouth,
13 who winks maliciously with his eye,
signals with his feet
and motions with his fingers,
14 who plots evil with deceit in his heart—
he always stirs up conflict.
15 Therefore disaster will overtake him in an instant;
he will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.

16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:

a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.