The Doctrine of Hell: Under Attack

[UnderGrace]

Magenta,

True, the nature and character of God is much maligned and His character is ignored.

"keys to a torture chamber" this is what some are saying ultimately.

Infinite punishment for finite crimes, reflects secular thinking to me,like when they say, lock them up and throw away the key.

Jesus holds the keys to life and death. If you align yourself with God's plan for humanity by accepting Jesus' propitiatory sacrifice upon the cross to pay the sin debt, you pass from death into life ever after, which is the promise extended to believers. All else pass into the second death. Some want to say Jesus also holds the keys to the torture chamber. They malign the nature and character of God is so doing, but seem to see nothing wrong with ignoring the plain teaching of Scripture that the wages of sin is death. God is good, God is merciful, God is loving, and God is just. They ignore that, too

 

[Magenta]

And what happens when this "hell" is thrown in the lake of fire. Some things just seem to be a mystery and perhaps that is by design by the Lord.

Death is done away with, because sin has been dealt with through the shedding of Christ's righteous blood on the cross of Golgotha. Those who do not place their faith in Jesus Christ, have their names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life, and they are destroyed to the uttermost, as is death. It is an everlasting punishment because they do not come back from it. The second death is forever. To say death is not punishment is ridiculous, yet some do.

 

[Magenta]

That's your biased and prejudicial interpretation of the Lake of Fire. You seem to forget the reason for its existence. Hell was created ("prepared") for the Devil and his angels BECAUSE they rebelled against God, caused the first humans to sin, and thereby brought a curse upon everything including creation. Justice demands that evildoers be punished.

You ignore Scripture and twist what is said. Do you do so deliberately? One has to wonder. Sin and death entered the world and all of creation fell due to the sin of one man and his name was Adam. The lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels. I don't ignore that. You have never asked me about it nor have I ever said anything differently, so your wish to malign me in this way reflects poorly on you.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Infinite punishment for finite crimes

No undergrace, eternal punishment for sin against a Holy and eternal God. Look at Jesus had to go through to satisfy the penalty for our sins. God could have snapped his finger and said, "you're all forgiven" and that without providing a sacrifice. But because God is a righteous God He provided salvation keeping within his own word which he has been demonstrating from the time that he brought Adam and eve animal skins to cover their nakedness, meaning that He had to shed the blood of an animal to make atonement for them. Instead, God left heaven and kinned himself to mankind in order to be our kinsman redeemer, a human being without sin to pay the penalty for our sins. He kept within his own word which says, "unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins.

No, the scriptures are correct in that, everyone who trusts in Christ, He was held accountable for their sins. Everyone who rejects Christ will be held accountable for their own sins, the results of which are everlasting and that because as king David said when he sinned with Bathsheba, "Against you alone have I sinned."

There is no annihilation, for that would be getting off easy. Not to mention that scripture does not support annihilation or extinction. Everyone who comes into the world exists for ever, either in eternal life in the joy of the Lord or eternal punishment in separation from God in the lake of fire.

 

[Magenta]

From the time of Adam, God proclaimed that the wages of sin was death. Christ paid the price for sin, otherwise He would have to be tortured and tormented for eternity to pay the sin debt, because that is what people say the wages of sin is, despite the explicit and clear teaching of Scripture in a multitude of places, that death is the price people pay for rejecting God. Unfortunately, people do not accept a plain reading of Scripture.

 

[PrynceNY]

Magenta, True, the nature and character of God is much maligned and His character is ignored. "keys to a torture chamber" this is what some are saying ultimately. Infinite punishment for finite crimes, reflects secular thinking to me,like when they say, lock them up and throw away the key.

No offense but those who believe in annihilation reflects worldly thinking to me. Its rebellion against the most high supreme being not earthly crimes we punish here. In addition to that there's no reason for people to go to Hell when Christ paid the price for them not to. For people to rebel against God and reject the son who was treated brutally and died for them is probably one of the highest offenses to the father.

 

[Meggido]

At the same time God offers His grace and salvation to ALL MEN, so that none should go to Hell, but that all should come to repentance and salvation. God did not create Hell for human beings, but if they refuse to obey the Gospel, they also condemn themselves as rebels against God's offer of mercy, pardon, forgiveness, and eternal life. That is a very serious matter in God's eyes, because His only begotten Son paid a very high price for the salvation of the world.

You completely re-write scripture and then attempt to school magenta?!

2 Peter 3.9 says:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


you said:

At the same time God offers His grace and salvation to ALL MEN, so that none should go to Hell, but that all should come to repentance and salvation.

The word perish here means to to destroy not to send to hell....there is no way you can twist it enough to make it say what you just blatantly did...

Seems to me you just added stuff to this verse...your stuff, not what the word says...you just made it up as you went to prove a perosnal point...this makes you at best, a false teacher and at worse a liar that needs to add to God 's word...

You are cloud and wind without rain.....thank you for manifesting this fact about yourself...you are filled with corrupted communication knowledge, but have zero revelation knowledge of the scriptures...

 

[valiant]

No undergrace, eternal punishment for sin against a Holy and eternal God. Look at Jesus had to go through to satisfy the penalty for our sins. God could have snapped his finger and said, "you're all forgiven" and that without providing a sacrifice.

No He Could not. That was the whole point. That propitiation had to be made for sin. The cross brings out the justice of God as well as the mercy of God.

But because God is a righteous God He provided salvation keeping within his own word which he has been demonstrating from the time that he brought Adam and eve animal skins to cover their nakedness, meaning that He had to shed the blood of an animal to make atonement for them.

His righteousness demanded it.

Instead, God left heaven and kinned himself to mankind in order to be our kinsman redeemer, a human being without sin to pay the penalty for our sins. He kept within his own word which says, "unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins.

agreed..

No, the scriptures are correct in that, everyone who trusts in Christ, He was held accountable for their sins. Everyone who rejects Christ will be held accountable for their own sins, the results of which are everlasting and that because as king David said when he sinned with Bathsheba, "Against you alone have I sinned."

everyone believes the results are everlasting, but the question is whether it is everlasting torment (taught nowhere) or everlasting destruction (specifically stated by Jesus).

There is no annihilation, for that would be getting off easy.

Destruction not annihilation. And it is hardly 'getting off easy'. It is avoiding needless punishment.

Not to mention that scripture does not support annihilation or extinction.

The OT is full of it. And Jesus spoke constantly of destruction. What are you reading?

Everyone who comes into the world exists for ever, either in eternal life in the joy of the Lord or eternal punishment in separation from God in the lake of fire.

I presume you mean conscious eternal punishment.

Give me just ONE Scripture that says, that man is immortal and/or that conscious punishment is everlasting.

 

[PrynceNY]

No He Could not. That was the whole point. That propitiation had to be made for sin. The cross brings out the justice of God as well as the mercy of God. His righteousness demanded it. agreed.. everyone believes the results are everlasting, but the question is whether it is everlasting torment (taught nowhere) or everlasting destruction (specifically stated by Jesus). Destruction not annihilation. And it is hardly 'getting off easy'. It is avoiding needless punishment. The OT is full of it. And Jesus spoke constantly of destruction. What are you reading? I presume you mean conscious eternal punishment. Give me just ONE Scripture that says, that man is immortal and/or that conscious punishment is everlasting.

"They shall have no rest day or night". In no sense is that "vanishing" or being annihilated from existence.

 

[valiant]

"They shall have no rest day or night". In no sense is that "vanishing" or being annihilated from existence.

Those who worship the beast will not rest day and might in their worship, just as those who worship God rest not day or night (Rev 4.8). We have the same Greek expression in both. It simply means that they never ceased worshipping.

 

[Stephen63]

622. apollumi
​

Strong's Concordance

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly​

Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).

HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).
622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.
[This is also the meaning of 622 /apóllymi dating back to Homer (900 bc.]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 622: ἀπόλλυμι

ἀπόλλυμι and ἀπολλύω ((ἀπολλύει John 12:25 T Tr WH), imperative ἀπόλλυε Romans 14:15 (cf. Buttmann, 45 (39); WH's Appendix, p. 168f)); future ἀπολέσω and (1 Corinthians 1:19 ἀπολῶfrom a passage in the O. T., where often) ἀπολῶ (cf. Winers Grammar, 83 (80); (Buttmann, 64 (56))); 1 aorist ἀπώλεσα; to destroy; middle, present ἀπόλλυμαι; (imperfect 3 person plural ἀπώλλυντο 1 Corinthians 10:9 T Tr WH); future ἀπολοῦμαι; 2 aorist ἀπωλόμην; (2 perfect active participle ἀπολωλώς); (from Homer down); to perish.
1. to destroy i. e. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin: Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34; Luke 17:27, 29; Jude 1:5; τήν σοφίανrender useless, cause its emptiness to be perceived, 1 Corinthians 1:19(from the Sept. of Isaiah 29:14); to kill: Matthew 2:13; Matthew 12:14; Mark 9:22; Mark 11:18; John 10:10, etc.; contextually, to declare that one must be put to death: Matthew 27:20; metaphorically, to devote or give over to eternal misery: Matthew 10:28; James 4:12; contextually, by one's conduct to cause another to lose eternal salvation: Romans 14:15. Middle to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed;
a. of persons; (a). properly: Matthew 8:25; Luke 13:3, 5, 33; John 11:50; 2 Peter 3:6; Jude 1:11, etc.; ἀπόλλυμαι λιμῷ, Luke 15:17; ἐνμαχαρια, Matthew 26:52; καταβαλλόμενοι, ἀλλ' οὐκἀπολλύμενοι, 2 Corinthians 4:9. (b). tropically, to incur the loss of true or eternal life; to be delivered up to eternal misery: John 3:15 (RLbr.), ; (it must be borne in mind, that according to John's conception eternal life begins on earth, just as soon as one becomes united to Christ by faith); Romans 2:12; 1 Corinthians 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:18; 2 Peter 3:9. Hence, οἱ σῳζόμενοι they to whom it belongs to partake of salvation, and οἱ ἀπολλύμενοι those to whom it belongs to perish or to be consigned to eternal misery, are contrasted by Paul: 1 Corinthians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 2:15; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (on these present participles, cf. Winers Grammar, 342 (321); Buttmann, 206 (178)).
b. of things; to be blotted out, to vanish away: ἡ εὐπρέπεια, James 1:11; the heavens, Hebrews 1:11 (from Psalm 101:27 (); to perish — "of things which on being thrown away are decomposed, as μέλος τοῦσώματος, Matthew 5:29f; remnants of bread, John 6:12; — or which perish in some other way, as βρῶσις, John 6:27; χρυσίον, 1 Peter 1:7; — or which are mined so that they can no longer subserve the use for which they were designed, as οἱ ἀσκοί: Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:37.
2. to destroy i. e. to lose;
a. properly: Matthew 10:42; Mark 9:41 (τόν μισθόν αὐτοῦ); Luke 15:4, 8, 9; Luke 9:25; Luke 17:33; John 12:25; 2 John 1:8, etc.
b. metaphorically, Christ is said to lose anyone of his followers (whom the Father has drawn to discipleship) if such a one becomes wicked and fails of salvation: John 6:39, cf. John 18:9. Middle to be lost: θρίξ ἐκτῆς κεφαλῆς, Luke 21:18; θρίξ ἀπό τῆς κεφαλῆς, Acts 27:34 (Rec.πεσεῖται); τά λαμπρά ἀπώλετο ἀπό σου, Revelation 18:14(Rec. ἀπῆλθε). Used of sheep, straying from the flock: properly, Luke 15:4 (τό ἀπολωλός, in Matthew 18:12 τό πλανώμενον). Metaphorically, in accordance with the O. T. comparison of the people of Israel to a flock (Jeremiah 27:6 (); Ezekiel 34:4, 16), the Jews, neglected by their religious teachers, left to themselves and thereby in danger of losing eternal salvation, wandering about as it were without guidance, are called τά πρόβατα τά ἀπολωλότα τοῦ οἴκου Ἰσραήλ: Matthew 10:6; Matthew 15:24 (Isaiah 53:6; 1 Peter 2:25); and Christ, reclaiming them from wickedness, is likened to a shepherd and is said ζητεῖν καίσῴζειν τό ἀπολωλός: Luke 19:10; Matthew 18:11 Rec. (Compare: συναπόλλυμι.)

The next post will contain all the scriptures using this word.

 

[valiant]

622. apollumi
​

Strong's Concordance

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly​

Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).

HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).
622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.
[This is also the meaning of 622 /apóllymi dating back to Homer (900 bc.]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 622: ἀπόλλυμι

ἀπόλλυμι and ἀπολλύω ((ἀπολλύει John 12:25 T Tr WH), imperative ἀπόλλυε Romans 14:15 (cf. Buttmann, 45 (39); WH's Appendix, p. 168f)); future ἀπολέσω and (1 Corinthians 1:19 ἀπολῶfrom a passage in the O. T., where often) ἀπολῶ (cf. Winers Grammar, 83 (80); (Buttmann, 64 (56))); 1 aorist ἀπώλεσα; to destroy; middle, present ἀπόλλυμαι; (imperfect 3 person plural ἀπώλλυντο 1 Corinthians 10:9 T Tr WH); future ἀπολοῦμαι; 2 aorist ἀπωλόμην; (2 perfect active participle ἀπολωλώς); (from Homer down); to perish.
1. to destroy i. e. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin: Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34; Luke 17:27, 29; Jude 1:5; τήν σοφίανrender useless, cause its emptiness to be perceived, 1 Corinthians 1:19(from the Sept. of Isaiah 29:14); to kill: Matthew 2:13; Matthew 12:14; Mark 9:22; Mark 11:18; John 10:10, etc.; contextually, to declare that one must be put to death: Matthew 27:20; metaphorically, to devote or give over to eternal misery: Matthew 10:28; James 4:12; contextually, by one's conduct to cause another to lose eternal salvation: Romans 14:15. Middle to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed;
a. of persons; (a). properly: Matthew 8:25; Luke 13:3, 5, 33; John 11:50; 2 Peter 3:6; Jude 1:11, etc.; ἀπόλλυμαι λιμῷ, Luke 15:17; ἐνμαχαρια, Matthew 26:52; καταβαλλόμενοι, ἀλλ' οὐκἀπολλύμενοι, 2 Corinthians 4:9. (b). tropically, to incur the loss of true or eternal life; to be delivered up to eternal misery: John 3:15 (RLbr.), ; (it must be borne in mind, that according to John's conception eternal life begins on earth, just as soon as one becomes united to Christ by faith); Romans 2:12; 1 Corinthians 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:18; 2 Peter 3:9. Hence, οἱ σῳζόμενοι they to whom it belongs to partake of salvation, and οἱ ἀπολλύμενοι those to whom it belongs to perish or to be consigned to eternal misery, are contrasted by Paul: 1 Corinthians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 2:15; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (on these present participles, cf. Winers Grammar, 342 (321); Buttmann, 206 (178)).
b. of things; to be blotted out, to vanish away: ἡ εὐπρέπεια, James 1:11; the heavens, Hebrews 1:11 (from Psalm 101:27 (); to perish — "of things which on being thrown away are decomposed, as μέλος τοῦσώματος, Matthew 5:29f; remnants of bread, John 6:12; — or which perish in some other way, as βρῶσις, John 6:27; χρυσίον, 1 Peter 1:7; — or which are mined so that they can no longer subserve the use for which they were designed, as οἱ ἀσκοί: Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:37.
2. to destroy i. e. to lose;
a. properly: Matthew 10:42; Mark 9:41 (τόν μισθόν αὐτοῦ); Luke 15:4, 8, 9; Luke 9:25; Luke 17:33; John 12:25; 2 John 1:8, etc.
b. metaphorically, Christ is said to lose anyone of his followers (whom the Father has drawn to discipleship) if such a one becomes wicked and fails of salvation: John 6:39, cf. John 18:9. Middle to be lost: θρίξ ἐκτῆς κεφαλῆς, Luke 21:18; θρίξ ἀπό τῆς κεφαλῆς, Acts 27:34 (Rec.πεσεῖται); τά λαμπρά ἀπώλετο ἀπό σου, Revelation 18:14(Rec. ἀπῆλθε). Used of sheep, straying from the flock: properly, Luke 15:4 (τό ἀπολωλός, in Matthew 18:12 τό πλανώμενον). Metaphorically, in accordance with the O. T. comparison of the people of Israel to a flock (Jeremiah 27:6 (); Ezekiel 34:4, 16), the Jews, neglected by their religious teachers, left to themselves and thereby in danger of losing eternal salvation, wandering about as it were without guidance, are called τά πρόβατα τά ἀπολωλότα τοῦ οἴκου Ἰσραήλ: Matthew 10:6; Matthew 15:24 (Isaiah 53:6; 1 Peter 2:25); and Christ, reclaiming them from wickedness, is likened to a shepherd and is said ζητεῖν καίσῴζειν τό ἀπολωλός: Luke 19:10; Matthew 18:11 Rec. (Compare: συναπόλλυμι.)

The next post will contain all the scriptures using this word.

when the Greek speaking Plato wanted a word to mean annihilation in his Immortality of the soul he CHOSE apollumi. I prefer his expertise to the exceptions of modern linguists

 

[Stephen63]

Matthew 2:13 V-ANA
GRK: παιδίον τοῦ ἀπολέσαι αὐτό
NAS: for the Child to destroy Him.
KJV: seek the young child to destroy him.
INT: child to destroy himMatthew 5:29 V-ASM-3S
GRK: σοι ἵνα ἀπόληται ἓν τῶν
NAS: it from you; for it is better for you to lose one
KJV: of thy members should perish, and not
INT: for you that should perish one of the
Matthew 5:30 V-ASM-3S
GRK: σοι ἵνα ἀπόληται ἓν τῶν
KJV: of thy members should perish, and not
INT: for you that should perish one of the
Matthew 8:25 V-PIM-1P
GRK: Κύριε σῶσον ἀπολλύμεθα
NAS: Save [us], Lord; we are perishing!
KJV: save us: we perish.
INT: Lord save us we are perishing
Matthew 9:17 V-PIM/P-3P
GRK: οἱ ἀσκοὶ ἀπόλλυνται ἀλλὰ βάλλουσιν
NAS: out and the wineskins are ruined; but they put
KJV: and the bottles perish: but they put
INT: the wineskins will be destroyed but they put
Matthew 10:6 V-RPA-ANP
GRK: πρόβατα τὰ ἀπολωλότα οἴκου Ἰσραήλ
NAS: go to the lost sheep
KJV: rather to the lost sheep of the house
INT: sheep lost of [the] house of Israel
Matthew 10:28 V-ANA
GRK: καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ
NAS: Him who is able to destroy both
KJV: him which is able to destroy both soul
INT: and body to destroy in hell
Matthew 10:39 V-FIA-3S
GRK: ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ ἀπολέσει αὐτήν καὶ
NAS: his life will lose it, and he who has lost
KJV: his life shall lose it: and
INT: life of him will lose it and
Matthew 10:39 V-APA-NMS
GRK: καὶ ὁ ἀπολέσας τὴν ψυχὴν
NAS: will lose it, and he who has lost his life
KJV: it: and he that loseth his life
INT: and he that having lost the life
Matthew 10:42 V-ASA-3S
GRK: οὐ μὴ ἀπολέσῃ τὸν μισθὸν
NAS: I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.
KJV: he shall in no wise lose his
INT: no not shall he lose the reward
Matthew 12:14 V-ASA-3P
GRK: ὅπως αὐτὸν ἀπολέσωσιν
NAS: Him, [as to] how they might destroy Him.
KJV: him, how they might destroy him.
INT: how him they might destroy
Matthew 15:24 V-RPA-ANP
GRK: πρόβατα τὰ ἀπολωλότα οἴκου Ἰσραήλ
NAS: only to the lost sheep
KJV: but unto the lost sheep of the house
INT: sheep lost of [the] house of Israel
Matthew 16:25 V-FIA-3S
GRK: αὐτοῦ σῶσαι ἀπολέσει αὐτήν ὃς
NAS: his life will lose it; but whoever
KJV: his life shall lose it: and
INT: of him to save will lose it whoever
Matthew 16:25 V-ASA-3S
GRK: δ' ἂν ἀπολέσῃ τὴν ψυχὴν
NAS: it; but whoever loses his life
KJV: and whosoever will lose his life
INT: however anyhow might lose the life
Matthew 18:11 V-RPA-ANS
GRK: σῶσαι τὸ ἀπολωλός
KJV: that which was lost.
INT: to save that which has been lost
Matthew 18:14 V-ASM-3S
GRK: οὐρανοῖς ἵνα ἀπόληται ἓν τῶν
NAS: of these little ones perish.
KJV: of these little ones should perish.
INT: [the] heavens that should perish one of the
Matthew 21:41 V-FIA-3S
GRK: Κακοὺς κακῶς ἀπολέσει αὐτούς καὶ
NAS: They said to Him, He will bring those
KJV: He will miserably destroy those
INT: wretches miserably he will destroy them and
Matthew 22:7 V-AIA-3S
GRK: στρατεύματα αὐτοῦ ἀπώλεσεν τοὺς φονεῖς
NAS: his armies and destroyed those
KJV: armies, and destroyed those
INT: armies of him he destroyed the murderers
Matthew 26:52 V-FIM-3P
GRK: ἐν μαχαίρῃ ἀπολοῦνται
NAS: up the sword shall perish by the sword.
KJV: the sword shall perish with
INT: by [the] sword will perish
Matthew 27:20 V-ASA-3P
GRK: δὲ Ἰησοῦν ἀπολέσωσιν
NAS: for Barabbas and to put Jesus
KJV: Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
INT: moreover Jesus should destroy
Mark 1:24 V-ANA
GRK: Ναζαρηνέ ἦλθες ἀπολέσαι ἡμᾶς οἶδά
NAS: Have You come to destroy us? I know
KJV: art thou come to destroy us?
INT: of Nazareth are you come to destroy us I know
Mark 2:22 V-PIM/P-3S
GRK: ὁ οἶνος ἀπόλλυται καὶ οἱ
NAS: and the wine is lost and the skins
KJV: the bottles will be marred: but
INT: the wine will be destroyed and the
Mark 3:6 V-ASA-3P
GRK: ὅπως αὐτὸν ἀπολέσωσιν
NAS: Him, [as] [to] how they might destroy Him.
KJV: him, how they might destroy him.
INT: how him they might destroy
Mark 4:38 V-PIM-1P
GRK: σοι ὅτι ἀπολλύμεθα
NAS: do You not care that we are perishing?
KJV: not that we perish?
INT: to you that we perish
Mark 8:35 V-FIA-3S
GRK: ψυχὴν σῶσαι ἀπολέσει αὐτήν ὃς
NAS: his life will lose it, but whoever
KJV: his life shall lose it; but
INT: life to save will lose it whoever
92 Occurrences

 

[PrynceNY]

Those who worship the beast will not rest day and might in their worship, just as those who worship God rest not day or night (Rev 4.8). We have the same Greek expression in both. It simply means that they never ceased worshipping.

Not only that "the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever" It makes no sense to believe they cease to exist when the smoke of their own torment rises forever.

 

[Stephen63]

when the Greek speaking Plato wanted a word to mean annihilation in his Immortality of the soul he CHOSE apollumi. I prefer his expertise to the exceptions of modern linguists

Am I surprised?!? NOPE.

 

[valiant]

Not only that "the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever" It makes no sense to believe they cease to exist when the smoke of their own torment rises forever.

so the smoke rises for ever, just like that of the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem (Isaiah 66.24). Both are in the case of dead corpses. Both are indicating that the means of their destruction (fire and maggots) are eternal.

 

[PrynceNY]

so the smoke rises for ever, just like that of the Valley of Hinnom outside Jerusalem (Isaiah 66.24). Both are in the case of dead corpses. Both are indicating that the means of their destruction (fire and maggots) are eternal.

People will believe what makes them feel better. When the father reveals these same things to yall i wonder what will be the response from annihilationist.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

when the Greek speaking Plato wanted a word to mean annihilation in his Immortality of the soul he CHOSE apollumi. I prefer his expertise to the exceptions of modern linguists

Am I surprised?!? NOPE.

No you shouldn't be.

when it comes to language the use by a highly educated native speaker is far more telling than that of a foreign linguist writing 1900 years later, especially when the modern linguist agreed that that is the root meaning of the word.

 

[valiant]

People will believe what makes them feel better. When the father reveals these same things to yall i wonder what will be the response from annihilationist.

Thank you for showing us the truth when so many were deceived by the RC church's teaching !!

 

[Stephen63]

"They shall have no rest day or night". In no sense is that "vanishing" or being annihilated from existence.

Thank you PrynceNY for reminding me of this one.

Revelation 14​

9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.11“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Those who worship the beast will not rest day and might in their worship, just as those who worship God rest not day or night (Rev 4.8). We have the same Greek expression in both. It simply means that they never ceased worshipping.

This is baseless, fabricated, & utterly stupid.