The Doctrine of Hell: Under Attack

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#201
Jul 3, 2015
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#201
Locutus said:
I don't there's much room for many more...:cool:
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They could be made much smaller thereby giving room for more...

As for me, I will believe what God's eternal Word says: the wages of sin is death.
Those not found in Christ at the end of this age pass into the second death.
The dead know nothing. Only God is immortal. These things are explicitly
stated in Scripture. I believe the Word of God :)
 
Crustyone

Crustyone

Senior Member
#202
Mar 15, 2015
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#202
On that last post not everything that I tried to past came through. It is easy enough to look up though.
 
Crustyone

Crustyone

Senior Member
#203
Mar 15, 2015
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#203
Magenta said:
They could be made much smaller thereby giving room for more...

As for me, I will believe what God's eternal Word says: the wages of sin is death.
Those not found in Christ at the end of this age pass into the second death.
The dead know nothing. Only God is immortal. These things are explicitly
stated in Scripture. I believe the Word of God :)
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Satan will feel the pain and he is also not immortal.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#204
Mar 22, 2015
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#204
Originally Posted by valiant
destruction and torment are two very different things. How could eternal torment possibly be described as being punished with 'few stripes' (Luke 12)

Because it is stressing the eternal nature of it. See Isaiah 66.24.

Where is eternal conscious torment mentioned? They are punished with many stripes, as opposed to those punished with few stripes. But it does not say eternally
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Crustyone said:
How about Revelation 14:9-11?
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
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Firstly it does NOT say they are conscious eternally, only that the smoke of their torment (the smoke rising from the instruments of torture) is for ever and ever. In other words the signs of their punishment are eternal. (As in Isaiah 66.24)

I gather that you think that Jesus and His angels will watch their punishment for ever? I could think of better things to do.
 
PrynceNY

PrynceNY

Banned
#205
Aug 16, 2016
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#205
valiant said:
But it fits in better with His compassion on the just and the unjust. Do you really thing that the One Who died for us on a cross wishes to gloat over the punishment of the wicked (many stripes) and the not so wicked ('few stripes') for eternity? (Luke 12; Rev 14)
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The Lord was willing to be practically brutally beaten and lay down his life so people wont experience eternal punishment. You have the right to your beliefs but it doesn't make sense for the Lord to come into the world endure all types of evil and die for mankind just so they wont "cease to exist". There is no presence of God in Hell therefore there is no forgiveness and no mercy.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#207
Mar 22, 2015
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#207
PrynceNY said:
The Lord was willing to be practically brutally beaten and lay down his life so people wont experience eternal punishment. You have the right to your beliefs but it doesn't make sense for the Lord to come into the world endure all types of evil and die for mankind just so they wont "cease to exist".
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And now He watches over them suffering eternally, along with his holy angels? (Rev 14)

Who says that they cease to exist immediately? Some receive many stripes, and some few stripes (Luke 12). But the point is that they are finally destroyed.
.
There is no presence of God in Hell therefore there is no forgiveness and no mercy.
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But the Lamb and His holy angels are there enjoying the spectacle? And I thought God was everywhere?
 
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PrynceNY

PrynceNY

Banned
#208
Aug 16, 2016
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#208
valiant said:
And now He watches over them suffering eternally, along with his holy angels? (Rev 14) Who says that they cease to exist immediately? Some receive many stripes, and some few stripes (Luke 12). But the point is that they are finally destroyed. . But the Lamb and His holy angels are there enjoying the spectacle?
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Let me ask you a question. All those in Hell are there for rebelling against the most high God correct? If people simply burned for a couple mins then vanished would that not be a form of mercy in Hell
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#209
Jul 3, 2015
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#209
Crustyone said:
Satan will feel the pain and he is also not immortal.
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Only God is immortal. People claim that the soul is immortal, but Scripture says something other than what those people claim. Why, then, do they make such a claim? The following is explicitly stated in Scripture: "This mortal must put on immortality." That is accomplished only through Christ :) The dead do not put on immortality. They perish, as is repeatedly affirmed through the explicit words of Scripture in a multitude of places.
 
J

joaniemarie

Senior Member
#210
Jan 4, 2017
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#210
PrynceNY said:
Dude if you know about hell good, there are people who may not know much about it or the gospel. New people come to christ daily and we are to tell them the full gospel, hell included. We are to reach the lost in which by the sounds of it one can assume its something you probably don't do. Just sit in a corner with your salvation while the rest of the world is going down the path to destruction.
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The full gospel or Good news is not hell. Hell is not the Gospel. The Gospel is Good News that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved" No one ever has to go to hell if they receive Jesus as Savior from sin and death.

Yes, there is a hell to avoid but that is not the Gospel. God so loved sinners He sent Jesus....is the Gospel = Good news.

 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#211
#211
So God suffered, took on sin, for all peoples, in order ultimately, to hand out punishment?

It would make more sense to only take on the sins of the elect since He knew who they would be anyway?

Some people believe this, yes?



PrynceNY said:
The Lord was willing to be practically brutally beaten and lay down his life so people wont experience eternal punishment. You have the right to your beliefs but it doesn't make sense for the Lord to come into the world endure all types of evil and die for mankind just so they wont "cease to exist". There is no presence of God in Hell therefore there is no forgiveness and no mercy.
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U

UnderGrace

Guest
#212
#212
Amen and Amen!!



joaniemarie said:
The full gospel or Good news is not hell. Hell is not the Gospel. The Gospel is Good News that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved" No one ever has to go to hell if they receive Jesus as Savior from sin and death.

Yes, there is a hell to avoid but that is not the Gospel. God so loved sinners He sent Jesus....is the Gospel = Good news.

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V

valiant

Senior Member
#213
Mar 22, 2015
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#213
PrynceNY said:
Let me ask you a question. All those in Hell are there for rebelling against the most high God correct? If people simply burned for a couple mins then vanished would that not be a form of mercy in Hell
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The many stripes and few stripes are before they are finally sent to Hell to be destroyed. It will be more than a couple of minutes.

And why should God not show mercy to those in Hell?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#214
Jul 3, 2015
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#214
Following the resurrection and judgment of all, those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life do not pass from death into life ever after to be tortured and tormented. Those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life pass into the second death, and death is thrown into the lake of fire and is no more. This is obviously too great a mystery for many to grasp.
 
PrynceNY

PrynceNY

Banned
#215
Aug 16, 2016
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#215
valiant said:
The many stripes and few stripes are before they are finally sent to Hell to be destroyed. It will be more than a couple of minutes. And why should God not show mercy to those in Hell?
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The wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath surely doesn't sound like burning for a few mins js
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#216
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#216
joaniemarie said:
The full gospel or Good news is not hell. Hell is not the Gospel. The Gospel is Good News that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved" No one ever has to go to hell if they receive Jesus as Savior from sin and death.

Yes, there is a hell to avoid but that is not the Gospel. God so loved sinners He sent Jesus....is the Gospel = Good news.

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Hello Joaniemarie,

Actually it is apart of the gospel. Without the threat of hell, there would be no gospel. What would Jesus come to save us from?

Yes, there is a hell to avoid but that is not the Gospel. God so loved sinners He sent Jesus....is the Gospel = Good news.
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And the good news is that, Jesus saved us from condemning judgement and the lake of fire. Otherwise, if there is no threat, then there would be no good news, because Jesus would not have come to save us from anything. You can't separate them.

The gospel is Jesus Christ crucified, buried and resurrected. And He did all of that to save us from condemning judgment in the lake of fire. So the good news is that Jesus saved us from hell.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#217
Jul 3, 2015
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#217
Ahwatukee said:
What would Jesus have come to save us from?
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He offers us a life more abundant, and saves us from eternal death.

Why is that so difficult to understand?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#218
#218
He came to restore the fellowship lost in the garden. The reason we were originally created.

Ahwatukee said:
Hello Joaniemarie,

Actually it is apart of the gospel. Without the threat of hell, there would be no gospel. What would Jesus have come to save us from?



And the good news is that, Jesus saved us from condemning judgement and the lake of fire. Otherwise, if there is no threat, then there would be no good news, because Jesus would have come to save us from anything. You can't separate them.

The gospel is Jesus Christ crucified, buried and resurrected. And He did all of that to save us from condemning judgment in the lake of fire. So the good news is that Jesus saved us from hell.
Click to expand...
 
J

joaniemarie

Senior Member
#219
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
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#219
Willie-T said:
That's like saying, "As long as my Daddy thinks I'm honoring him, he won't beat me..... and that proves he loves me."
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I got saved out of fear in the 1980s and it took years to learn about the love of God. But now I see there are some things that are just set in motion when Adam and Eve sinned and those things needed to be dealt with so God sent His Son who dealt with both sin and death 100%

Sin is real and so is hell. The devil and his angels are real and are going to be dealt with and cast into the lake of fire prepared for him and his angels. Life without God is not something any of us has to deal with but ONLY because of Jesus. Without Jesus there are some humans who will have to deal with hell because they don't HAVE Jesus who already dealt with it for them.

It was never God's will that any should perish but that all would come to repentance and have eternal life. But not everyone is going to have repentance or eternal life in heaven with Him. Some will have eternal life in hell without Him as awful as that sounds to us. Sin is that bad. Jesus took all judgment and sin. He drew all judgment when He died on the cross.
 
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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#220
Jul 3, 2015
57,057
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#220
Ahwatukee said:
The gospel is Jesus Christ crucified, buried and resurrected. And He did all of that to save us from condemning judgment in the lake of fire. So the good news is that Jesus saved us from hell.
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You make the same mistake as many here and confuse your terms.

You really ought to know better after forty years of study.
 
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