The end of the world is coming. What should we be looking for?

abcdef · Nov 12, 2017

We can really only know what the Bible says is true.

The Bible doesn't say anything about America or it's relationship with Israel.

The Bible centers on Israel and Jerusalem as the centers of the material world.

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I have thought about this.

It could be a war with N Korea that extends for years, or a crippling attack on the military, or the loss of political support for Israel, Who wants another war in the middle east? Who wants to get involved?

And I did notice that many appointments are to people who are, well, not pro Israel lets say.

I don't know all the details exactly, I just know that these events that are shown in the Rev are coming to pass.

The restoration of Israel to control of Jerusalem is a big sign. Really big.

It means that all the prophecies about this time can now take place.

MattforJesus · Nov 12, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Dan 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
Dan 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel had a vision of 4 kingdoms that operated differently than each other,which are the 4 ways of man.Human religion,physical cruelty,human wisdom,and pushing for dominion,world domination.

Although all 4 kingdoms displayed all 4 ways,one of those ways was their chief mode of operation,with the other 3 ways in a minor role to their chief mode of operation.

Dan 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

The first beast is Babylon,which represents human religion.King Nebuchadnezzar proclaimed throughout his kingdom to acknowledge the God of Israel,for He is the greatest God of all the gods,and Babylon rode on eagle's wings.

The king died,his son took the throne,knew what his father believed,and went against it,and the eagle's wings were plucked,lost the revelation of God,and the kingdom given to the Medes and Persians.

Babylon would then be known as the kingdom of man.

Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

The second beast is Medo-Persia,which represents physically cruelty.Raised itself up on one side,the Persian influence stronger.3 ribs probably 3 kingdoms they conquered 1.Babylonians 2.Lydians 3.Egyptians.

Dan 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

The third beast is Greece,which represents human wisdom.4 wings of a fowl which might mean they flew above the common nation in higher mathematics,science,philosophy,medicine,etc.Had 4 heads,and when Alexander the Great died his kingdom was split into 4 sections,and a general ruled each section.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The fourth beast is the Roman Empire,which represents pushing for power,and world domination.Had ten horns which is in the future,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and the beast,the man of sin,will come from the ten horns,whose agenda is it is all about people,and there is no personal God.

The little horn devastates 3 sections of the world,plucked up by the roots with nuclear weapons.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

The first 3 beasts will never have physical dominion again,but their ways are still on earth,and show up at the beast kingdom in Revelation.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The Roman Empire does not lose their dominion until God puts them down,which they will devour the whole earth,tread it down,and break it in pieces,and when they fall then the saints shall possess the kingdom,which has not happened yet.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The beast kingdom has no input from God unlike the kingdoms of the past.

All 4 beast's ways of Daniel are in the beast kingdom,their chief mode of operation,and is the kingdom of man in its entirety,where in the past it was not the kingdom of man in its entirety,for all 4 ways was not in chief mode of operation,for there was an imbalance between the 4 in whatever ratio it was.

The ten horns are the physical dominion of the beast kingdom,the Roman Empire,in which their chief mode of operation is in play,for they shall tread down the whole earth,tread upon it,and break it in pieces,and the beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues.

With the ways of a lion,Babylon in their chief mode of operation,human religion,people only going by their own religion,where in time past they acknowledged a God.

With the ways of a bear,Medo-Persia in their chief mode of operation,being physically cruel to take away all people that do not follow the beast kingdom not showing the love of God even in a little sense.

With the ways of a leopard,Greece in their chief mode of operation,human wisdom,people only going by their own wisdom.

All 4 beasts in their chief mode of operation,the kingdom of man in its entirety.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Heads 1.Egypt 2.Assyria 3.Babylon 4.Medo-Persia 5.Greece 6.Roman Empire 7.Ten horns.

Crown on heads,Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people,and the ten horns rule prior to the beast claiming to be God,but fail at providing peace,and hand their power over to the beast,and he gets control of the world.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Crowns on the horns,Satan in the physical realm deceiving people.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

7 kings.5 are fallen 1.Egypt 2.Assyria 3.Babylon 4.Medo-Persia 5.Greece.1 is in operation at the time John wrote Revelation. 6.Roman Empire. 7.The next one in the future,and when they will operate for a short space,three and one half years.8.The beast,man of sin,who is of the 7 for the devil influenced those kingdoms,and will rule for three and one half years.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The beast does not revive from the dead,for he has 7 heads,and 1 head was as it were wounded to death,but the deadly would was healed,which a man does not have 7 heads,and Satan will appear as the man of sin.

The head that was wounded is the ten horn kingdom,the 7th head of the beast,that ruled for three and one half years before the beast claimed to be God,and ruled.

The Gentile nations will come together,and say Peace and safety,and try to establish peace on earth,and will rule by the ten horn kingdom,but the ten horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace,especially when a war broke out,and nuclear weapons were launched,and one third of the population of the world dies.

The 7th head was wounded,for they failed at obtaining peace and safety,and the world is devastated,and lost hope for there to be peace on earth,for when they say Peace and safety then sudden destruction comes upon them,and the war of the 6th trumpet was the worse war in the history of mankind.

But the beast convinced them that he harnessed the power of nature,and obtained power,evolved,and will share this power with all who follow him,and he restored order,and calmed things down,and gave the world hope,and the deadly wound was healed,and they said,who is like unto the beast,and who can make war against him,believing he has the power to be able to establish his kingdom,and provide peace on earth,and no foe can stop him.

Bladerunner · Nov 12, 2017

stonesoffire said:

If your talking about the kingdoms in Revelation, NO, they have yet to be announced. The 7 kingdoms are known pretty well.

Tommy379 · Nov 13, 2017

The sky is falling.

JaumeJ · Nov 13, 2017

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ling-away-apostasy-rebellion.html#post3343506

abcdef · Nov 13, 2017

Tommy379 said:

No, that's Jesus coming for the kingdom.

Willie-T · Nov 13, 2017

Tommy379 said:

abcdef said:

It's interesting that one author opens his book with the same reference:
*********
Author’s Preface:
From the very beginning, cranks and crackpots have attempted to use Revelation to advocate some new twist on the Chicken Little Doctrine: The Sky is Falling! But, as I hope to show in this exposition, St. John’s Apocalypse teaches instead, that Christians will overcome all opposition through the work of Jesus Christ. My study has convinced me that a true understanding of this prophecy must be based on the proper application of ﬁve crucial interpretive keys:

1. Revelation is the most “Biblical” book in the Bible.
St. John quotes hundreds of passages from the Old Testament, often with subtle allusions to little-known religious rituals of the Hebrew people. In order to understand Revelation, we need to know our Bibles backward and forward. One reason why this commentary is so large is that I have tried to explain this extensive Biblical background, commenting on numerous portions of Scripture that shed light on St. John’s prophecy. I have also re-printed, as Appendix A, Philip Carrington’s excellent survey of the Levitical symbolism in Revelation.

2. Revelation has a system of symbolism.
Almost everyone recognizes that St. John wrote his message in symbols. But the meaning of those symbols is not up for grabs. There is a systematic structure in Biblical symbolism. In order to understand Revelation properly, we must become familiar with the “language” in which it is written. Among other goals, this commentary seeks to bring the Church at least a few steps closer to a truly Biblical Theology of Revelation.

3. Revelation is a prophecy about imminent events — events that were about to break loose on the world of the ﬁrst century.
Revelation is not about nuclear warfare, space travel, or the end of the world. Again and again, it speciﬁcally warns that “the time is near!” St. John wrote his book as a prophecy of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, showing that Jesus Christ had brought the New Covenant and the New Creation. Revelation cannot be understood unless this fundamental fact is taken seriously.

4. Revelation is a worship service.
St. John did not write a textbook on prophecy. Instead, he recorded a heavenly worship service in progress. One of his major concerns, in fact, is that the worship of God is central to everything in life. It is the most important thing we do. For this reason, I have devoted special attention throughout this commentary to the very considerable liturgical aspects of Revelation, and their implications for our worship services today.

5. Revelation is a book about dominion.
Revelation is not a book about how terrible the Antichrist is, or how powerful the devil is. It is, as the very ﬁrst verse says, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. It tells us about His lordship over all; it tells us about our salvation and victory in the New Covenant, God’s “wonderful plan for our life”; it tells us that the kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our God, and of His Christ; and it tells us that He and His people shall reign forever and ever.

abcdef · Nov 13, 2017

Willie-T said:

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I will agree with everything except this statement.

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You know that I believe that much of the Rev was fulfilled by 70 ad..

But there are things shown in the Rev that cannot have been fulfilled by 70 ad.

1. The 7 seals, yes, they were fulfilled by 70 ad.

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2. The 7 trumpets, they show the time after 70 ad until Jesus comes for the kingdom, which hasn't happened yet.

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3.The end of the times of the gentiles (Lk 21:20-24,24),

The 2 witnesses are shown outside the city, then restored. This cannot show the 70 ad destruction, because Israel is restored when the 3 1/2 TIMES is over.

The woman (Rev 12) is in the wilderness, at the end of that time she comes out from the wilderness (back to Jerusalem, implied). Israel is restored when the 3 1/2 TIMES is over.

If it were the 70 ad dest., the Israel would not be shown restored to Jerusalem at the end of the 70 ad war.

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4. Rev 20, The fire comes down from heaven after Jerusalem is surrounded. (Jerusalem is restored to Israel, implied).

This is after the mill (symbolic 1000), the kingdom is still in the mill period, it didn't end in 70 ad.
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I have several other problems also with the "all fulfilled by 70 ad" theory.

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At this present time,

1-6 trumpets have now blown, we are waiting for the 7th.

1-6 bowls/vials have been poured out, 7th will be soon.

Jerusalem/Israel is surrounded by Iran and it's allies Magog, waiting for the stone to strike.

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Locutus · Nov 13, 2017

David Chilton Willie - good book, I don't think I agree with his thoughts on the revelation being "a worship service" or a liturgy as former protestant Scott Hahn (now a Roman Catholic) calls it.

Chilton became a Full Preterist prior to his untimely death, Days of Vengeance is a good read though.

Snoozy · Nov 13, 2017

Willie-T said:

wrong. christians did not overcome. the saints are overcome the bible teaches.
and we can see this everywhere.

world overcame christianity, everything is compromised. like Jesus said will He find faith when He returns??? there are a few faithful remnant churches.

Willie-T · Nov 13, 2017

Locutus said:

Yeah, he was a Calvinist and a Reconstructionist...... both of which Doctrines I find several disagreements with. But, he did write one of the most comprehensive commentaries on The Revelation that I have ever seen.

Snoozy · Nov 13, 2017

the ones who wont be overcome will be a minority of christians. this is clear.
this is why premillennialism is a bible doctrine. man will never succeed in bringing peace. only Jesus will do it. all other views are false especially postmillennialism is the most ridiiclous view ever. completely unbiblical has teh order of events in reverse.

abcdef · Nov 13, 2017

Snoozy said:

Jesus brings us into peace with the Father, which we can have in this world.

But as long as there is flesh, there will be no peace for the material world.

Locutus · Nov 13, 2017

Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

This is precisely what happened when Nero started going after the saints - there is no need to project this hundreds of years into the future - many 1st century Christians perished in his hands - John stated this was about to come upon some of them in the opening verses of his revelation:

Rev 2:10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

abcdef · Nov 13, 2017

Locutus said:

Except that the persecutions of Israel DID NOT END with the dest of Jeru, it continued long after that.

Can you resolve the issues that I made in my previous post to Willie-T? # 788

Bladerunner · Nov 13, 2017

Willie-T said:

It's interesting that one author opens his book with the same reference:
*********
Author’s Preface:
From the very beginning, cranks and crackpots have attempted to use Revelation to advocate some new twist on the Chicken Little Doctrine: The Sky is Falling! But, as I hope to show in this exposition, St. John’s Apocalypse teaches instead, that Christians will overcome all opposition through the work of Jesus Christ. My study has convinced me that a true understanding of this prophecy must be based on the proper application of ﬁve crucial interpretive keys:

1. Revelation is the most “Biblical” book in the Bible.
St. John quotes hundreds of passages from the Old Testament, often with subtle allusions to little-known religious rituals of the Hebrew people. In order to understand Revelation, we need to know our Bibles backward and forward. One reason why this commentary is so large is that I have tried to explain this extensive Biblical background, commenting on numerous portions of Scripture that shed light on St. John’s prophecy. I have also re-printed, as Appendix A, Philip Carrington’s excellent survey of the Levitical symbolism in Revelation.

2. Revelation has a system of symbolism.
Almost everyone recognizes that St. John wrote his message in symbols. But the meaning of those symbols is not up for grabs. There is a systematic structure in Biblical symbolism. In order to understand Revelation properly, we must become familiar with the “language” in which it is written. Among other goals, this commentary seeks to bring the Church at least a few steps closer to a truly Biblical Theology of Revelation.

3. Revelation is a prophecy about imminent events — events that were about to break loose on the world of the ﬁrst century.
Revelation is not about nuclear warfare, space travel, or the end of the world. Again and again, it speciﬁcally warns that “the time is near!” St. John wrote his book as a prophecy of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, showing that Jesus Christ had brought the New Covenant and the New Creation. Revelation cannot be understood unless this fundamental fact is taken seriously.

4. Revelation is a worship service.
St. John did not write a textbook on prophecy. Instead, he recorded a heavenly worship service in progress. One of his major concerns, in fact, is that the worship of God is central to everything in life. It is the most important thing we do. For this reason, I have devoted special attention throughout this commentary to the very considerable liturgical aspects of Revelation, and their implications for our worship services today.

5. Revelation is a book about dominion.
Revelation is not a book about how terrible the Antichrist is, or how powerful the devil is. It is, as the very ﬁrst verse says, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. It tells us about His lordship over all; it tells us about our salvation and victory in the New Covenant, God’s “wonderful plan for our life”; it tells us that the kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our God, and of His Christ; and it tells us that He and His people shall reign forever and ever.

Hope you have a good backup plan.....

Locutus · Nov 13, 2017

abcdef said:

AB baby - this is all wrong - the nation of Israel was not under persecution - they were under judgement and wrath, Israel after the flesh since 70AD are no longer a nation special to God - that went *poof* when God stated he would slay them and call his servants by another name:

Isa 65:15 “You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen ones, And the Lord GOD will slay you. But My servants will be called by another name.

Christians are his servants - Israel after the flesh come to be His people the same way as any nation.

Not without some major reprogramming of your neural net....

abcdef · Nov 13, 2017

Locutus said:

Rom 11:25, "...; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Well, if they are too hard for you to resolve, that's OK.

Locutus · Nov 13, 2017

Fullness of the Gentiles relates to the spreading of the gospel to the then known nations and is not a numerical number - Paul stated the gospel had been preached to every creature under heaven:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

The fullness came in during Paul's time - then the end came.

abcdef · Nov 13, 2017

Jackson123 said:

The mark of the beast, is the mark of Caesar and Rome.

At the time that the Revelation was written, about 65 ad - 96 ad, Rome had power over Israel.

Everyone of Israel was being forced to worship Caesar as god, or as the supreme god.

The mark was believed to be received after worship to him, Caesar.

The power of the Caesars over Israel continued for hundreds of years.

This mark of Caesar worship was the one that they were concerned about.

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The end of the world is coming. What should we be looking for?

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