Thief on the Cross

[garee]

Wansvic said: The purification laws, etc. were definitely required in the OT law. However, water baptism for the remission of sin began in the NT.Please provide scripture showing that baptism is done as a public confession of one's faith.There are many scriptures provided in this thread that show baptism is a component of salvation

We by believing the unseen,confess Christ

It more of a pubic desire to join the priesthood of belivers.it does not confirm any thing outwards just a desire to work bring the gospel.

The question I would offer. Whose faith as a belief system?. Of God not seen the eternal , or men seen the temporal?

The H20 purpose from the old has not changed (men having a desire to become member of the priesthood). A group of people used to represent the gospel key the word of God. Just who the privilege is given to has changed when the Son of man came . . .all the nations men and woman alike. Not like before under pagan rule Kings in Israel. Separate from other nations, woman separated from men

The baptism of the Spirit is in respect to the faith of Christ his beliefs that he applies as a work of his love or called work of faith has non until the Holy Spirit poured in on him . the first experience of our first love, hearing His voice strengthening our hearts the thief on the cross heard the same one as that of the Son on man. It was a like see you later to Jesus.

When using the word faith, we should ask of own selves . . . whose faith, the faith of God? And what if some do not believe God not seen will it make his work of faith be which we believe Him non effective?

We beginning with no faith that could please him, not little again none .When we receive the gift of faith then we have little. . it must decrease in a hope his will increase working in us .

 

[JamOn]

We by believing the unseen,confess Christ

It more of a pubic desire to join the priesthood of belivers.it does not confirm any thing outwards just a desire to work bring the gospel.

The question I would offer. Whose faith as a belief system?. Of God not seen the eternal , or men seen the temporal?

The H20 purpose from the old has not changed (men having a desire to become member of the priesthood). A group of people used to represent the gospel key the word of God. Just who the privilege is given to has changed when the Son of man came . . .all the nations men and woman alike. Not like before under pagan rule Kings in Israel. Separate from other nations, woman separated from men

The baptism of the Spirit is in respect to the faith of Christ his beliefs that he applies as a work of his love or called work of faith has non until the Holy Spirit poured in on him . the first experience of our first love, hearing His voice strengthening our hearts the thief on the cross heard the same one as that of the Son on man. It was a like see you later to Jesus.

When using the word faith, we should ask of own selves . . . whose faith, the faith of God? And what if some do not believe God not seen will it make his work of faith be which we believe Him non effective?

We beginning with no faith that could please him, not little again none .When we receive the gift of faith then we have little. . it must decrease in a hope his will increase working in us .

Interesting questions geree, what do you think about Adam and Eve not receiving the gift of faith?

 

[Wansvic]

Even though Jesus was baptized, and this to fulfil prophesy He himself baptized no one. I find that very odd if water baptism is indeed required.

I believe Jesus' presence during water baptisms was to provide a picture of His acceptance of what was being done.

The Word shows that water baptism for the remission of sins began to be preached by John the Baptist. This was to introduce the concept that would later be a component of salvation when done in the name of the one who died, was buried and resurrected to provide salvation to mankind. This truth is seen in Acts 19:1-6 where Paul re-baptized those who had previously submitted to John's water baptism, into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Jesus said that those who believe in Him will do greater works than the ones He did. (John 14:12) I believe that what Jesus meant was that His disciples after leading people to the truth take part by assisting them in the spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers )

There are eternal consequences and nothing else can compare to the spiritual rebirth provided for by Jesus. Of all the works that Jesus did while in His physical body; heal, cast out demons, etc. Jesus was unable to assist in mankind's rebirth experience. The experience was not available until after His death.

Jesus provided the way of salvation through the use of His physical body and His disciples obey His commands and assist other's in the spiritual rebirth experience.

 

[Wansvic]

Belief requires action: No action=no belief.

Keep in mind that Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:16) Even if this scripture did not exist evidence of the need for water baptism by all nationalities is provided in the biblical record. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)

Everyone is given the opportunity to accept or reject the necessity of water baptism. Keep in mind that the religious leaders of Jesus' day refused it. Scripture states that they refused the actual counsel of God against themselves. (Luke 7:30)

No where in the Word do we see water baptism becoming obsolete.

 

[JamOn]

Belief requires action: No action=no belief.

Keep in mind that Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:16) Even if this scripture did not exist evidence of the need for water baptism by all nationalities is provided in the biblical record. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)

Everyone is given the opportunity to accept or reject the necessity of water baptism. Keep in mind that the religious leaders of Jesus' day refused it. Scripture states that they refused the actual counsel of God against themselves. (Luke 7:30)

No where in the Word do we see water baptism becoming obsolete.

And certainly not a requirement correct?

 

[Wansvic]

And certainly not a requirement correct?

Water baptism is a requirement. Jesus left us with His example to follow and states it clearly in Mark 16:16 and Matthew 19:28.The Book of Acts is a record of what was required of the NT church; of which water baptism is one requirement.

 

[JamOn]

Water baptism is a requirement. Jesus left us with His example to follow and states it clearly in Mark 16:16 and Matthew 19:28.The Book of Acts is a record of what was required of the NT church; of which water baptism is one requirement.

And mark 16 clearly states who isn’t.

16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

the last part is key, even if you haven’t been baptized it’s ok because what counts is faith in Christ.

the scripture doesn’t say but he who disbelieves and not baptized is condemned. there’s but one spirit for all

1 cor 17
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Water baptism is a requirement. Jesus left us with His example to follow and states it clearly in Mark 16:16 and Matthew 19:28.The Book of Acts is a record of what was required of the NT church; of which water baptism is one requirement.

You are continuing to promote your false doctrine of salvation through baptism. Give it a rest. Most of the Christians here can see that you have not really understood the Gospel.

 

[Wansvic]

And mark 16 clearly states who isn’t.

16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

the last part is key, even if you haven’t been baptized it’s ok because what counts is faith in Christ.

the scripture doesn’t say but he who disbelieves and not baptized is condemned. there’s but one spirit for all

1 cor 17
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

Jesus did not say one thing and change it in the next sentence.

Clearly Paul baptized people. His comment pertains to water baptism not being his primary ministry.

 

[Wansvic]

You are continuing to promote your false doctrine of salvation through baptism. Give it a rest. Most of the Christians here can see that you have not really understood the Gospel.

I will continue to answer questions. If that annoys you just place me on ignore.

As I mentioned in a previous post:
The religious leaders of Jesus' day refused water baptism. The scripture actually states that by doing so they refused the counsel of God against themselves. (Luke 7:30)

 

[JamOn]

Jesus did not say one thing and change it in the next sentence.

Clearly Paul baptized people. His comment pertains to water baptism not being his primary ministry.

What was said is in one sentence.

when John was baptizing the people, they didn’t have to repeat it when Jesus came preaching the kingdom is near.

 

[mailmandan]

Water baptism is a requirement. Jesus left us with His example to follow and states it clearly in Mark 16:16 and Matthew 19:28.The Book of Acts is a record of what was required of the NT church; of which water baptism is one requirement.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism *Hermeneutics.

*John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[mailmandan]

The religious leaders of Jesus' day refused water baptism. The scripture actually states that by doing so they refused the counsel of God against themselves. (Luke 7:30)

Luke 7:29 - When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they justified God/acknowledged God's justice, (signified by) having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, (signified by) not having been baptized by John. Baptism did not magically make them become disciples of John, but their decision to become disciples of John was signified in baptism. Becoming a disciple of John was a heart decision that they made prior to becoming water baptized. You missed the heart of the message.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Of course I believe in the finished work of Jesus; it is the door to salvation for all of mankind. The finished work of Jesus includes His death, burial and resurrection. Without Jesus' resurrection the NT spiritual eternal life would not be possible.

I believe the thief went to paradise because that is what Jesus said would happen.

However, after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection people had to be obedient to instructions given to the NT church. (Acts 2:38) They were told to repent, which means to die to self and follow Jesus; be buried with Jesus spiritually in the waters of baptism, and receive the power of the Holy Spirit that resurrected Jesus from the dead.

We see that God established water baptism not man:
"But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." Luke 7:30

Jesus words about baptism having come from heaven are recorded in Matt 21:25, Mark 11:30-31, Luke 20:4-5:

"The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him? Matt 21:25

The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.
And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then did ye not believe him? Mark 11:30-31

The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?
And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not? Luke 20:4-5

"Johns Baptism" didn't exist prior to John..

So who was it for, and why?

 

[Nehemiah6]

The religious leaders of Jesus' day refused water baptism. The scripture actually states that by doing so they refused the counsel of God against themselves. (Luke 7:30)

Do you even know the difference between the baptism of John and Christian baptism?

Since you do not even understand what Christian baptism is all about, you actually need a primer on baptism. So you should be asking questions instead of answering them. Or should we produce a *catechism* about water baptism?

And yes it is extremely annoying when people continue to promote false doctrines to lead others astray. Christ and the apostles had some harsh things to say about false teachers.

 

[JamOn]

Clearly Paul baptized people. His comment pertains to water baptism not being his primary ministry.

in your next sentence I do agree, his primary ministry was preaching the gospel so the ones who heard the word the way to salvation and believed was enough.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Clearly Paul baptized people. His comment pertains to water baptism not being his primary ministry.

But if your doctrine was true, then baptism would ALSO be his primary ministry. After all no one would get saved without H2O.

Do you see that you created your own trap?

 

[JamOn]

But if your doctrine was true, then baptism would ALSO be his primary ministry. After all no one would get saved without H2O.

Do you see that you created your own trap?

It appears some want to extend this simple statement,

Matt 11
30 “My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

 

[JamOn]

And clearly I think Jesus wasn’t saying repent by being baptized, but believe

(Luke 10:13-16)

20Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.

23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”

 

[tourist]

I believe Jesus' presence during water baptisms was to provide a picture of His acceptance of what was being done.

I don't remember that Jesus was present for full-immersion water baptisms of certain individuals but He did turn water into wine at the wedding at Cana. The chief wine steward said it was an exceptional choice wine. I am quite sure that Jesus approves of baptisms very much.