To comfort those who speak in tongues

Angela53510 · Aug 25, 2015

Ok, Ember! This is exactly the type of post I was talking about. No Scripture or theology. Not even personal experiences!

Just insults and putting down of people who disagree with him.

My walk with God is not dull or boring!! It is the most exciting and joyful part of my life! It is my life! I have the Holy Spirit leading me, guiding me, speaking to me and through me! It doesn't get any better than the relationship I have with Jesus Christ! That is my experience and my testimony! And my witness to the glory of God working in my life!

Spiritual maturity has nothing to do with babbling in tongues. I am on my phone, but I will post verses on what spiritual maturity means biblically when I get home.

ember · Aug 25, 2015

Angela53510 said:

do you suppose in my daily walk I go around telling people I speak in tongues? rhetorical question

I pray in tongues more than any other useage other than singing...please be fair and understand that the insults and name calling...such as liar...which is very unfitting for one believer to say to another...and words to the effect that people who speak in tongues are showing off and therefore are sinning and other such...are very hurtful and IMO, designed to get a rise out of people!

it's petty at this point to go back and point it all out but the posts are there...miles back somewhere...and I do none of the things that the neighsayers keep saying we ALL do!

The other thing is that this is not the first thread on tongues...the same people always show up and say the same things regarding why tongues is devilish, counterfeit, demonic, sinful, prideful and on and on and on.

The insults really do go both ways and I have not called anyone a name that I can remember but some call names as easily as breathing it seems...IMO, some better moderation would be helpful...there comes a time to remind people what the TOS are and insulting, name calling and harrasement are against the TOS yet it seems that is seldom enforced.

So, myself, I would appreciate people who continue to harass and name call etc being asked to stop and if they continue they should get a time out and if they still continue after that, maybe a few months away would help...I don't know...but I have see far worse on these forums than this thread...and it is usually the same people doing it and arguing with everyone.

For me, speaking in tongues is not about giving your spiritual life a facelift...I appreciate the relationship with God you obviously have...and I agree with you on spiritual maturity...we would not have Corinthians if tongues was about maturity.

What we have is a lack of teaching...I have made it my business to study and learn and pray for discernment almost daily.

I compare my walk in the world today to a minefiled and do I have to tell you that some of the worst opposition a believer can face and some of the most unloving people are believers? I can't deal with their heart...I struggle with my own!

Two things...I cannot abide liars and I cannot abide tattle tales

BTW, you have typed way more on your phone than I would LOL!

I am truly sorry for those who take offense at what some post...I have been quite hurt by what went on today but I see it as spiritual conflict...and false accusation...it is not uncommon unfortuneatly.

I could write reams concerning the abuse of the gifts...false prophets, teachers, pastors...I've seen an awful lot in my travels in this world...BUT...that is not an excuse for me to adopt an attitude wherein I shut myself off...now if someone else does and their conscience is clear...who am I?

But I am not made that way...

So I understand what you post but I hopefully ask you to see that the hurt is real for those of us who have the opposite view

one other thing, both of us have a tendency to post verses and give links to sources...some folks just don't roll that way!

One thing to disagree...another to take out a personal vendetta or poke and poke at someone untill they bite back and then say...haha...see? you are not loving

what kind of a game is that? I am about as serious as a person can be concerning what is truth and I appreciate a genuine study from and on the Bible with my whole heart because it is our life blood and I respect what scripture states but I do not always agree with how people understand what they say they are an authority on...not meaning you!

sorry...this was long...but I trust we both have honest hearts here...appreciate you always in the Lord!

Angela53510 · Aug 25, 2015

pwrnJC said:

And just because you don't seem to know the Bible at all, here is a list of gifts, that Paul wrote about. Please note the tongues are not even on this list, so they can't be that important. 1 Corinthians was a letter to a dysfunctional church at a time when the gift of tongues was still in use, but used wrongly, just like today. But Romans is a systematic outline of theology and so these gifts are the ones that are important.

"For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function,5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness." Romans 12:4-7

I have the gift of teaching, having taught every age and level in church and out of church. I also have the gift of exhoration, I have been told. Which is probably true, since I do like to exhort and encourage people. I have always been a leader in my church, and I am an ordained pastor and chaplain. Therefore, I have the gift of leadership, and I do it with zeal. My husband has the gift of giving, which he does generously. So God has given us gifts that we use to edify the church, both local and universal, and we follow God with how best to use them.

So what gifts do you have pwrnJC? Which ones are you contributing to your church, instead of just edifying yourself? I' curious to hear.

phil112 · Aug 25, 2015

ember said:

Horses accuse you of stuff?

Or could it be you meant naysayers.....................

convallaria · Aug 26, 2015

pwrnJC said:

Hello pwrnJC

I understand the position you take here and I have to say that I could not hack it the boring religious and traditional way: too dry and dusty and never powerful in the present tense. What God has given us IS exciting!!! I mean, WHAAAAAT???? The Maker of heaven and earth and the whole universe wants to INVOLVE us in what He is doing and has given us gifts to enable and empower us to do so? How much more exciting could that be? so AMEN to you on that.

Funny thing is though, as I look back to when I was first saved, even when I had no idea about the gifts of the Spirit or the baptism with the Spirit, or any idea of who I am in Christ....it wasn't boring then either!!! I remember I could not get my head out of the Bible for ages because it was so REAL to me...and the other thing that was disappointingly real was that it WASN'T real to many who claimed to be Christians.

Jesus said once, to the pharisees I believe, "your traditions have made the word of God of none effect." That to me clangs the bell of doom upon traditional Christianity that strains against the Spirit in order to keep things as they are in the religious flesh, week after week, no change, "Christianity by numbers".

How different from this Christian attitude are the Lord's words concerning those who are born again:

John 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The liberty to speak as the Holy Spirit leads us, to minister as the Holy Spirit leads us, to visit a place (spiritually, geographically, physically, intellectually etc.,etc.,) and the liberty to leave as the Holy Spirit concludes our business.

That to me is tremendously exciting!!!

Far from beginning new traditions that tie us to one spot and demand we submit Christ in us to human routine, how much better to release ourselves from that whole process in order that God may use us fully in whatever capacity He so desires? That is what I am after.

God bless you.

convallaria · Aug 26, 2015

BenFTW said:

LOL yeah!

I just thought of something....relating this to the thread....maybe God would not give the gift of tongues to someone who would do it repeatedly just to annoy others.

convallaria · Aug 26, 2015

Angela53510 said:

I don't think he meant it that way and I don't think he was directing it at you. It is really frustrating when you do speak in tongues and move in the gifts if someone implies you are lying, or that you are possessed by demons, or that you are immature and have not read your Bible.

Also as one who DOES speak in tongues it hurts and grieves me inside when people call it babbling, gibberish or gobbledegook. It is the Holy Spirit speaking so I want to ask HAVE YOU NO FEAR OF GOD to call it such a thing?

Just trying to show you the other perspective.

convallaria · Aug 26, 2015

ember said:

Great post Ember and I totally agree on the need for teaching (teaching by the Spirit) and the fact that it is a minefield out there. There is a perfecting process going on according to Ephesians 4:

Ephesians 4: 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Unity of the faith can't be achieved with a mixture of believers and unbelievers...light can't have fellowship with darkness...and this scripture is made out to be null and void by those who say "ahhhhhhhh don't you know? there are no more prophets or apostles any more...no more gifts....no more operations of the Holy Spirit."

It really grieves me deeply inside that there are some who will NEVER submit to the Lordship of Christ, because even though they say they hold the word of God in high regard, they do not hold the PERSON of God in high regard enough, God made manifest for us in the flesh.

But we are in this mutually perfecting process in the body of Christ and we can do no more than press on.

I appreciate you, I just want to let you know

ember · Aug 26, 2015

phil112 said:

yeah I dunno

God can make an ass speak so whatever

And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? Numbers 22:28

ember · Aug 26, 2015

convallaria said:

Great post Ember and I totally agree on the need for teaching (teaching by the Spirit) and the fact that it is a minefield out there. There is a perfecting process going on according to Ephesians 4:

Ephesians 4: 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Unity of the faith can't be achieved with a mixture of believers and unbelievers...light can't have fellowship with darkness...and this scripture is made out to be null and void by those who say "ahhhhhhhh don't you know? there are no more prophets or apostles any more...no more gifts....no more operations of the Holy Spirit."

It really grieves me deeply inside that there are some who will NEVER submit to the Lordship of Christ, because even though they say they hold the word of God in high regard, they do not hold the PERSON of God in high regard enough, God made manifest for us in the flesh.

But we are in this mutually perfecting process in the body of Christ and we can do no more than press on.

I appreciate you, I just want to let you know

and I you!!!

PeacefulWarrior · Sep 2, 2015

PeacefulWarrior said:

Let's make that three times.

Angela53510 · Sep 2, 2015

convallaria said:

I can't understand why you are hurt, if what you are doing is theologically sound and Biblically correct. Or perhaps you are slightly convicted that maybe tongues isn't right, and isn't God's plan?

I never implied that anyone was lying about their experience with tongues. I am sure that everyone who speaks in tongues here sincerely believes what they are doing is correct. But that does not mean it is Biblically correct. Like my experience with tongues, which lasted 15 long years, I was deluded about what I was doing. I was NOT following the Biblical model, where tongues speak to an unbeliever in their native tongue and the unbeliever is saved, because the tongues witness to the glory of God.

As for the babbling, I would suggest you actually listen one day to the noise going on in your church. I speak a lot of languages, and when I actually listened, I did not hear any syntax or coherence - just well, babbling.

As for spiritual maturity, for sure that comes through Bible reading, as the Holy Spirit enlightens the Word of God. Back when I was Pentecostal, the same 4 or 5 verses were preached, about how the next step was the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" with the evidence of speaking in tongues. That was the only change needed in our "dry, boring spiritual lives" (I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard that phrase!) Nothing about reading the whole counsel of God, prayer, or the long walk through valleys and heights with the Holy Spirit leading and guiding us, changing and transforming us.

But I know that may have changed in some churches. My daughter went to a Pentecostal church for a while, and I went to see what was going on with their theology and so forth. The first surprise was the pastor went into the congregation, and had people give testimonies who had been saved within the last month. So many hands went up I was stunned. Five people gave testimonies, of God's saving grace. All delivered from drugs, alcohol, physical and sexual abuse. It was an inner city church held in an old downtown church, so lots of street people, but definitely a work of God. Sadly the church moved and is no longer in a location to reach these people.

The other thing which surprised me was the message. It was part of a study of Ruth, and could have been preached in any Baptist church. Those pastors were very godly, and they really knew their Bibles. They were preaching transformation, as per Romans 12:2, 2 Cor. 3:18, and so on.

So my prayer is that things have really changed. Or perhaps the classsical Pentecostal Churches have moved to being more Biblical, as the Word Faith heretics have drawn away the people attracted to that false doctrine, and the excesses created by not knowing the Word of God?

I have a great fear of God. But that does not extend to being afraid to call out bad doctrine when it is presented as truth. And that isn't just about tongues, but a great number of other things.

(Again, not calling people liars, just saying the doctrines are not Biblical and that is the lie - people mistaking a lie for the truth!)

ladylynn · Sep 2, 2015

Jesus said it this way in Acts 1:8,
“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
After the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus’ disciples, they were powerful. They faced persecution and death fearlessly. What made the difference? By Jesus’ own words, it was the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
In Acts 8, Philip preached to the Samaritans, and the whole city believed on Jesus and was baptized in water. They were saved. But Acts 8:15-16 says,
“Who, when they [the apostles] were come down, prayed for them [the Samaritans], that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus)” (brackets mine).
This is a very clear example of people being born again but still needing to receive the Holy Spirit. This can also be witnessed in Acts 19. Paul found disciples who were not baptized in the Holy Spirit. He prayed for them, and they spoke with tongues.
Spirit filled, but no tongues!
There are other believers who acknowledge a second experience with the Holy Spirit which releases power, but they refuse the part of speaking in tongues, or at least say it’s not for everyone. But the baptism of the Holy Spirit is like a pair of tennis shoes: It always comes with tongues.
I guess it’s possible to have the baptism of the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues, but why wouldn’t you want to? If you’re afraid, don’t be! There’s no reason to fear; you’re in full control. You’ll control when you speak in tongues.
Maybe there’s something else that is holding you back. I know from experience that a person whose understanding of this gift isn’t right can stifle it. I did. In my case, a denomination had instilled such fear in me that I was afraid I would get something from the devil. It wasn’t until later that I learned the Lord wouldn’t let that happen (Luke 11:13).

PeacefulWarrior · Sep 2, 2015

ladylynn said:

Hi Lynn, This portion of your recent post is throwing up red flags here.

ladylynn · Sep 2, 2015

PeacefulWarrior said:

I was trying to add to the post when it timed out. A. Wommack is my source but I agree with this explanation. I guess I can understand your red flags. Speaking in tongues is not something that takes over our minds and bodies like i used to think. Like anything else I've ever done with the Lord, it took faith to move forward without fear. As I tried to post before, the love of God constrains us not the fear of God. It's good to question PW and I'd encourage you to do so. I did for many months when I began to even begin to take any of this seriously. Before that I just stayed away from the gifts of the spirit under the new covenant as I was taught God did not work like this today. I have since found out how wrong that teaching was.

PeacefulWarrior · Sep 2, 2015

PeacefulWarrior said:

Acts 19: Paul is speaking with disciples who were baptised in the name of John -- not Jesus.

ladylynn · Sep 2, 2015

PeacefulWarrior said:

Acts 19:5 "And when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Not sure what you mean PW?

PeacefulWarrior · Sep 2, 2015

Also in Acts 8 - Same with Peter and John... the new believers had not yet been baptised in the name of Jesus.

PeacefulWarrior · Sep 2, 2015

ladylynn said:

Before being baptised in the name of Jesus, these disciples were only baptised in the name of John -- these disciples and new believers did not become filled with the Holy Spirit until being baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. Christ is the key to receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

KennethC · Sep 2, 2015

PeacefulWarrior said:

Which part are you referring to because it says in Acts 8:12 after Apostle Philip preaching the kingdom of heaven to them they believed and got baptized.

To comfort those who speak in tongues

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