Understanding God’s election
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1) Yes it is. Factoring in free will (by all affected parties) solves ALL supposed dilemmas.
2) The supposed problem of harmonization then DISAPPEARS
Just listen to the inchoate blather Calvinites render on this thread and make a rational assessment as to its veracity. Its a joke.
They respond to unassailable Biblical facts by throwing around verses like spaghetti hoping one will stick, or freak out and pound out red X's. Or endlessly ponder how they can bend the laws of creation to support their dogma.
Totally clueless man. And totally unteachable to boot.
I just proved it AGAIN in my last couple of posts.
Jesus talks about the Jewish wedding ceremony, they go on tilt and churn out absurdities.
Beware the leaven of the Calvinites, lest they entangle you in the same snare.
2) The supposed problem of harmonization then DISAPPEARS
Just listen to the inchoate blather Calvinites render on this thread and make a rational assessment as to its veracity. Its a joke.
They respond to unassailable Biblical facts by throwing around verses like spaghetti hoping one will stick, or freak out and pound out red X's. Or endlessly ponder how they can bend the laws of creation to support their dogma.
Totally clueless man. And totally unteachable to boot.
I just proved it AGAIN in my last couple of posts.
Jesus talks about the Jewish wedding ceremony, they go on tilt and churn out absurdities.
Beware the leaven of the Calvinites, lest they entangle you in the same snare.
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Well yes, it seems clear enough to me also, but for some reason the determinists don't want to factor in God's love for all humanity,
I guess it takes a little too much work for folks brainwashed by dogmatism to harmonize Scripture. My own emancipation evolved as I wrote a seminary research paper on Augustine's Doctrine of Divine Love--which was that God loves only the elect, effectively hating the rest of humanity! Could the reason he did that be he projected his own hatred onto God?
I guess it takes a little too much work for folks brainwashed by dogmatism to harmonize Scripture. My own emancipation evolved as I wrote a seminary research paper on Augustine's Doctrine of Divine Love--which was that God loves only the elect, effectively hating the rest of humanity! Could the reason he did that be he projected his own hatred onto God?
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You don't know what free will is, since you believe the natural man is in possession of it.
Just like you are completely ignorant of what inability is, believing it exclusive to Calvinism when Arminius
taught it, and so does Molinism, because it is what the Bible actually teaches as well, although you deny it.
Just like you are completely ignorant of what inability is, believing it exclusive to Calvinism when Arminius
taught it, and so does Molinism, because it is what the Bible actually teaches as well, although you deny it.
Well let me ask you this:
Do you OBSERVE this same phenomenon coming from the Calvinites on this thread?
You know......God is full of judgement and wrath on "reprobates", and damns before their creation?
And this Calvinite dogma that culminates in the sordid realization that God has set up IMPENETRABLE roadblocks to salvation?
Do you OBSERVE this same phenomenon coming from the Calvinites on this thread?
You know......God is full of judgement and wrath on "reprobates", and damns before their creation?
And this Calvinite dogma that culminates in the sordid realization that God has set up IMPENETRABLE roadblocks to salvation?
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Matthew13-13-15 Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: ‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’ In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’”
According to @HeIsHere this makes God unfair.
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Sis. All of us on this side understand the limitations of man. And it is well understood from the Word..........But HE did something about our limitations. He physically and openly sent the world His Son. He sent the world His spirit. He tore the veil.
John 16:8-9
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Matt 27:51
And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
John 12:32
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’ ”
2 Cor 6:2
For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
Acts 16:31~~~Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved....
Equal privilege, equal opportunity for ALL.
John 16:8-9
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Matt 27:51
And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
John 12:32
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’ ”
2 Cor 6:2
For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
Acts 16:31~~~Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved....
Equal privilege, equal opportunity for ALL.
I doubt it very much. In fact I know it is not so. You misrepresent both sides!
"Your" side is so clueless about the natural man that they ascribe to him things capable only of the spiritual man.
They make no distinction whatsoever and it is on that basis that they believe the will of the natural man is free.
Many go to great lengths to deny what Scripture says about the natural man.
They would rather not incorporate him into their thinking or belief system.
Are you a universalist?
"Your" side is so clueless about the natural man that they ascribe to him things capable only of the spiritual man.
They make no distinction whatsoever and it is on that basis that they believe the will of the natural man is free.
Many go to great lengths to deny what Scripture says about the natural man.
They would rather not incorporate him into their thinking or belief system.
Are you a universalist?
One of the first things that we should do as believers when reading His word is 1 John 1:9. Name and site any known sins to God and make sure we are in fellowship.
John 16:8-9
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Matt 27:51
And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
John 12:32
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’ ”
2 Cor 6:2
For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
Acts 16:31~~~Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved....
Equal privilege, equal opportunity for ALL.
John 16:8-9
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Matt 27:51
And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
John 12:32
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Luke 3:6
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’ ”
2 Cor 6:2
For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
Acts 16:31~~~Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved....
Equal privilege, equal opportunity for ALL.
Let me say this, I am a traditionalist, the correct view of scripture, the one that is free from Augustine and Aquinas influence.
Traditionalist believe at times throughout history God does intervene to determine some things. That is what makes these things “of God” and uniquely supernatural.
We do not believe, however, these unique divine determinations prove God’s meticulous determination of ALL things.
And to put it bluntly this is where you err.
So there is nothing more to be stated on this since this is how the unfolding of God's plan of redemption needs to be understood.
Secondly......
Since you hold this Augustinian view of the "nature of fallen man"....
Is it not God who designed this fallen nature, is not He put this supposed inability/constraints in place?
Did God not design the fallen man a slave to sin?
The limitations you place on fallen man, in your doctrine are there by God's design.
This is your determinism.
Correct?
So then God is responsible for the sins of man...... because that is the fallen nature He gave them, they have no choice/volition .....
and they cannot respond to the Good News and exercise "belief" to escape, unless God allows/intervenes and allows them the escape route.
This is your doctrine laid bare. All you can do is say yes that is what I believe.
Traditionalist believe at times throughout history God does intervene to determine some things. That is what makes these things “of God” and uniquely supernatural.
We do not believe, however, these unique divine determinations prove God’s meticulous determination of ALL things.
And to put it bluntly this is where you err.
So there is nothing more to be stated on this since this is how the unfolding of God's plan of redemption needs to be understood.
Secondly......
Since you hold this Augustinian view of the "nature of fallen man"....
Is it not God who designed this fallen nature, is not He put this supposed inability/constraints in place?
Did God not design the fallen man a slave to sin?
The limitations you place on fallen man, in your doctrine are there by God's design.
This is your determinism.
Correct?
So then God is responsible for the sins of man...... because that is the fallen nature He gave them, they have no choice/volition .....
and they cannot respond to the Good News and exercise "belief" to escape, unless God allows/intervenes and allows them the escape route.
This is your doctrine laid bare. All you can do is say yes that is what I believe.
The Calvinites will inevitably learn this lesson at the judgement.
They had the OPPORTUNITY to make the necessary "course corrections" after much exhortation.
Yet they CHOSE by their OWN FREE WILL to ignore/deny solid Biblical teaching and CHOSE to remain WILLFULLY blind to it.
Maybe they will try and pull and fast one and blame God for their blindness and consequential plight?
I mean that's what Satan and this guy did.....right?
[Mat 25:24 KJV]
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
[Mat 25:25 KJV]
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.
They had the OPPORTUNITY to make the necessary "course corrections" after much exhortation.
Yet they CHOSE by their OWN FREE WILL to ignore/deny solid Biblical teaching and CHOSE to remain WILLFULLY blind to it.
Maybe they will try and pull and fast one and blame God for their blindness and consequential plight?
I mean that's what Satan and this guy did.....right?
[Mat 25:24 KJV]
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
[Mat 25:25 KJV]
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.
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From a previous post.......
At the heart of the matter the calvies and universalists are almost identical. They just differ on the numbers.
No matter what man does or thinks or doesn't do or doesn't think.....God elects man to salvation and belief.
Universalists say "the many."
Calvies say "the few."
Every heresy or false doctrine will circle back to each other in one way or another. Mankind and Satan cannot and will not devise a unique divine plan.
At the heart of the matter the calvies and universalists are almost identical. They just differ on the numbers.
No matter what man does or thinks or doesn't do or doesn't think.....God elects man to salvation and belief.
Universalists say "the many."
Calvies say "the few."
Every heresy or false doctrine will circle back to each other in one way or another. Mankind and Satan cannot and will not devise a unique divine plan.
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There be the leaven that has leavened the whole lump of Calvinite-ism.
But the REAL problem for the victims of the hoax is the outright REFUSAL to make the necessary "course corrections" when unassailable Biblical facts are presented.
Now THAT becomes a judgement issue. A very scary one.
But the REAL problem for the victims of the hoax is the outright REFUSAL to make the necessary "course corrections" when unassailable Biblical facts are presented.
Now THAT becomes a judgement issue. A very scary one.
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Satan loves to think that he has no free will....
"It's all God's fault."
It is yet failing to be seen by too many.
That Jesus, as God and man in union... Was revealing the ability to empty himself of all his attributes of Deity to function as a man.
And, as man? Was assigned by the Father to create all men and angels (while not functioning in omniscience)...
Therefore, not knowing, how each human, or angel, would choose after they were brought into existence.
That is the GOLDEN key! And, the stumbling block to TULIP fatalists.
The only reason I am understanding these things is because it is the time for them to be understood.
I am just a messenger....
......
"It's all God's fault."
It is yet failing to be seen by too many.
That Jesus, as God and man in union... Was revealing the ability to empty himself of all his attributes of Deity to function as a man.
And, as man? Was assigned by the Father to create all men and angels (while not functioning in omniscience)...
Therefore, not knowing, how each human, or angel, would choose after they were brought into existence.
That is the GOLDEN key! And, the stumbling block to TULIP fatalists.
The only reason I am understanding these things is because it is the time for them to be understood.
I am just a messenger....
......
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