Was Jesus the only one born without sin?
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There seems to be two different issues being discussed here.
1) Mary being like Jesus having lived a life without sin.. This is a lie from hell pushed by the deceiving catholic church which has wincam totally deceived.
2) Children enjoying a short time of innocence where they do not sin.. I believe Children do enjoy a time of innocence and if they died or are killed before they reach the age of knowledge of sin then they do not require the atonement of Jesus to cover sins that they have never committed..
1) Mary being like Jesus having lived a life without sin.. This is a lie from hell pushed by the deceiving catholic church which has wincam totally deceived.
2) Children enjoying a short time of innocence where they do not sin.. I believe Children do enjoy a time of innocence and if they died or are killed before they reach the age of knowledge of sin then they do not require the atonement of Jesus to cover sins that they have never committed..
You asked what was the position of the EOC and Martin Luther on the issue we are discussing on this topic: whether Mary was born sinless or not. I responded what they believed and then you said "The EOC teaches, and Martin Luther believed, that she died without sinning on her own free will. She, then, in their view, lived her life without sinning."
I tought we were in disagreement because you did not adress the issue on the topic (sinlessness of Mary or not). I guess I misunderstood you.
I tought we were in disagreement because you did not adress the issue on the topic (sinlessness of Mary or not). I guess I misunderstood you.
We die physically because we are flesh from Adam.
We die spiritually (become separated from God) when we sin, (the wages of sin is death),
But the SOUL that sinneth, IT shall die. Ezek
A child doesn't know what sin is,
Their souls don't know what evil is.
Is their soul in a "condition of sin" (iniquity) that was passed down by their father?
According to Ezek, this "condition of sin" (iniquity) on the soul is not passed on from parent to child.
Their souls have not sinned, and will not be separated from God if they pass.
We die spiritually (become separated from God) when we sin, (the wages of sin is death),
But the SOUL that sinneth, IT shall die. Ezek
A child doesn't know what sin is,
Their souls don't know what evil is.
Is their soul in a "condition of sin" (iniquity) that was passed down by their father?
According to Ezek, this "condition of sin" (iniquity) on the soul is not passed on from parent to child.
Their souls have not sinned, and will not be separated from God if they pass.
Hmm..................guessing Jesus was not "born?" He was FULLY man, and FULLY God.......He was subjected to everything man is subjected to..........yet He was WITHOUT SIN. Until, He "became sin" for us ON THE CROSS.
So..........da Polar Bear might have been born sinful, but Christ was not............and, unless one person can show me one DOCUMENTED CASE from Scripture describing a sin John the Baptist committed, well.........
You are saying Jesus sinned? Seriously? If you are saying Jesus sinned........well, there is really no need to continue this discussion.
That is only your assessment/opinion.......and not Biblical Truth.
And what does Jesus teaching the Lord's Payer have to do with any of this? Luke 11:2) And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
I do not understand your use of these Scriptures to support your assertion. They simply do not.
John 1:29: The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
36) And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
???
And, what does ANY OF THIS have to do with Jesus BEING WITHOUT SIN?
Are you even reading the comments?
And what does Jesus teaching the Lord's Payer have to do with any of this? Luke 11:2) And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
I do not understand your use of these Scriptures to support your assertion. They simply do not.
John 1:29: The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
36) And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
???
And, what does ANY OF THIS have to do with Jesus BEING WITHOUT SIN?
Are you even reading the comments?
Hmm..................guessing Jesus was not "born?" He was FULLY man, and FULLY God.......He was subjected to everything man is subjected to..........yet He was WITHOUT SIN. Until, He "became sin" for us ON THE CROSS.
So..........da Polar Bear might have been born sinful, but Christ was not............and, unless one person can show me one DOCUMENTED CASE from Scripture describing a sin John the Baptist committed, well.........
You are saying Jesus sinned? Seriously? If you are saying Jesus sinned........well, there is really no need to continue this discussion.
There is nothing in your two comments that reveal any sin John the Baptist committed.
As well, can you (or anyone here) name ANOTHER SINGLE PERSON in ALL OF HISTORY that the Angel Gabriel descended from the THRONE OF GOD and prophesied of? Anyone?
Is there Any one person IN ALL OF SCRIPTURE who was GREATER than John the Baptist, as stated by Jesus. Do people realize the MAGNITUDE of such a statement from the very loving LIPS OF CHRIST HIMSELF? Not Abraham, not Moses, not Isaiah, not Issac, not King Saul, NOT KING DAVID, NO ONE born of woman was GREATER than John the Baptist.
Matthew 11:9) But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 .) For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11 .) Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Now, before folks get all worked up.............remember that in my original comment I said "A case COULD BE made..." Not that it was Biblical Truth.......just saying.........
As well, can you (or anyone here) name ANOTHER SINGLE PERSON in ALL OF HISTORY that the Angel Gabriel descended from the THRONE OF GOD and prophesied of? Anyone?
Is there Any one person IN ALL OF SCRIPTURE who was GREATER than John the Baptist, as stated by Jesus. Do people realize the MAGNITUDE of such a statement from the very loving LIPS OF CHRIST HIMSELF? Not Abraham, not Moses, not Isaiah, not Issac, not King Saul, NOT KING DAVID, NO ONE born of woman was GREATER than John the Baptist.
Matthew 11:9) But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 .) For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11 .) Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Now, before folks get all worked up.............remember that in my original comment I said "A case COULD BE made..." Not that it was Biblical Truth.......just saying.........
2 Corinthians 5:20) [FONT="]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.[/FONT]
21[FONT="] .) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.[/FONT]
21[FONT="] .) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.[/FONT]
???
Your Comment #71: All have sinned...etc., I think that it was Paul who said that.
Clarification please........as it would relate to Comment #69:
Originally Posted by valiant
ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God
You are saying Jesus sinned? Seriously? If you are saying Jesus sinned........well, there is really no need to continue this discussion.
Your Comment #71: All have sinned...etc., I think that it was Paul who said that.
Clarification please........as it would relate to Comment #69:
ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God
You are saying Jesus sinned? Seriously? If you are saying Jesus sinned........well, there is really no need to continue this discussion.
[FONT="]12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.[/FONT]
The Biblical truth is we are all born from the sinful seed of our fathers. Basically we all have a sinful nature as a result. If a baby dies with sin he will go to hell because he is not able to repent if we were all "born with sin" and not in sin.
Medical truth is that a baby's blood while in his mothers whomb never mix with her blood but the fetus manufacture its own blood almost immediately. That is why we don't have to argue over this because the blood of Jesus never mixed with Mary. His seed was directly from ABBA Father (sinless seed).
Medical truth is that a baby's blood while in his mothers whomb never mix with her blood but the fetus manufacture its own blood almost immediately. That is why we don't have to argue over this because the blood of Jesus never mixed with Mary. His seed was directly from ABBA Father (sinless seed).
But sin is not imputed where there is no law. v 13
There are no laws for infants to keep.
Therefore sin cannot be imputed to them.
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Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned, v 14
We can die a physical death, even if we have not sinned, (children)
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I guess my next question would be,
All infants who die, do you think that their souls go to hell, or what?
There are no laws for infants to keep.
Therefore sin cannot be imputed to them.
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Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned, v 14
We can die a physical death, even if we have not sinned, (children)
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I guess my next question would be,
All infants who die, do you think that their souls go to hell, or what?
