Was The Book Of Revelation Written Pre-70AD As Many Claim?

[iamsoandso]

FYI
THE BEAST carries her (the beast which has 7 heads and 10 horns) (the 7 heads are the seven kings that ruled Rome…all Caesars….and the 10 horns are the conquered countries of the Romans Empire, Heruli, Suevi, Burgundian, Huns, Ostrogoths, Vandals, Lombards, Franks, Visigoths, Anglo-Saxons.

BEAST
The beast serves the DRAGON (Satan)
One beast from the sea, one beast from the earth
These beasts represent the persecution of God’s people and will be with us until the end of our Millennium Age.
SEA creature – Satan’s persecuting power working through governing bodies/the POLITIAL Leader beast.
Earth creature – Jewish leadership persecuting Christian believers
The call of the Christian is to patience, endurance (steadfastness), and faithfulness.
The wounded beast is symbolic of the rulers that fall, but are replaced by more of the same.

Beast with 7 heads Rev 17:9
Beast is the 7 kings that ruled Rome up to the time of the destruction of the temple (under Galba’short rule)
The 10 horns are the 10 nations: Heruli, Suevi, Burgundian, Huns, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Lombards, Franks and Anglo Saxons. These TEN, made the ONE ROMAN EMPIRE

Nation Beast:
Roman Empire of John’s day
Heads = 7 kings that ruled Rome
1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberious
4. Caligula (Gaius)
5. Claudius
Five have fallen (the dead kings) Rev 17:9
6. Nero
One is (reigning king of John’s day) 54-68 AD
7. Galba 68-69 AD VERY short reign
the other has not yet come ……remains a little while….
These scriptures put NERO as the reigning king.

1290 DAYS or 3 ½ YEARS or 42 MONTHS - Dan 12:11
and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty two months Rev 11: 2
This is the number of days that Jerusalem was under attack.

So in what you stating here who is it that received the mark and worshiped the image and were destroyed at the Lords coming?

 

[iamsoandso]

1. yes
2. 13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Jesus Himself said...give unto Caesar that which is Caesars

Who does it say in Revelation 13 and 17 that the beast would be at war with the Lord,the saints can that be not an terror as in Romans 13?

 

[EleventhHour]

what's the highest level science class you've ever actually taken?

The "Scandal of the Evangelical Mind" that is the book I am reminded of time and time again when conversation on CC centers anything to do with science and other disciplines

 

[iamsoandso]

Yes, I wanted to put my head in it before I made any statements. I want to re-read these parts of Revelation. (to get my revelation!)

Yes if it received an deadly wound in ad70 and the earth said let us make an image of it and it rose from the pit in 1948 then whoever is on its side will face Revelation 19:20-21

 

[GraceAndTruth]

So in what you stating here who is it that received the mark and worshiped the image and were destroyed at the Lords coming?

The mark of the beast is the counter sign to the SEAL of the Holy Spirit on believers (Eph1:13)
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
beast for reprobates the holy spirit for beleivers

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Who does it say in Revelation 13 and 17 that the beast would be at war with the Lord,the saints can that be not an terror as in Romans 13?

I don't understand what you are asking

 

[iamsoandso]

The mark of the beast is the counter sign to the SEAL of the Holy Spirit on believers (Eph1:13)
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
beast for reprobates the holy spirit for beleivers

In ad66 the Jews minted their own coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage so they didn't use Romes mark. Who received it and received the wrath of God because of it and were destroyed at his coming?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Yes if it received an deadly wound in ad70 and the earth said let us make an image of it and it rose from the pit in 1948 then whoever is on its side will face Revelation 19:20-21

it was rebuilt and triving soon after AD70. Jerusalem has always been a thriving city.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

In ad66 the Jews minted their own coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage so they didn't use Romes mark. Who received it and received the wrath of God because of it and were destroyed at his coming?

We don't know who actually used Jewish minted coins. To do business there has to be an accepted coinage with a set value.
Maybe some more nationalistic Jews used those coins but I would bet from a practical point of view, they would use the coin of the realm.
Anytime (which was often) the Jews decided to do things their way, they had the wrath of God on them.

 

[iamsoandso]

I don't understand what you are asking

In your idea you see the beast waging war against the Jews who denied Jesus as the Messiah in ad66-70. In Scripture the beast wages war against the Lord and his saints. One denies Jesus(Jews) how can they fulfill the Scriptures in Rev. 13 and 17 if they don't believe in Jesus?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

In your idea you see the beast waging war against the Jews who denied Jesus as the Messiah in ad66-70. In Scripture the beast wages war against the Lord and his saints. One denies Jesus(Jews) how can they fulfill the Scriptures in Rev. 13 and 17 if they don't believe in Jesus?

To that point, the apostles were Jews, 5000 were preached to (Acts 4:4 4 But many of those who had heard the [a]message believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.) We have no idea of the great numbers who believed. The first preaching was to the Jews at Pentecost.........Peter was the apostle to the Jews and he traveled to share the gospel.

That was a silly question. Jew and Gentile believers together are the CHURCH.

I'm off for tonight...thanks for the fun chat.

 

[iamsoandso]

To that point, the apostles were Jews, 5000 were preached to (Acts 4:4 4 But many of those who had heard the [a]message believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.) We have no idea of the great numbers who believed. The first preaching was to the Jews at Pentecost.........Peter was the apostle to the Jews and he traveled to share the gospel.

That was a silly question. Jew and Gentile believers together are the CHURCH.

I'm off for tonight...thanks for the fun chat.

In ad66-70 the ones the beast wars in the siege were Jews who denied Jesus,,,in Revelation 13 and 17 the ones who the beast wages war against are confessing Christian Saints and the Lord,,,night and day difference.

 

[iamsoandso]

good night,,,

 

[SoulWeaver]

Sorry, modern scientist today are driven by $$$$ and agendas to (Create) pre-determined desired outcomes, controled and manipulated studies are used, you cant even get to interpretation of these studies, big smiles

Examples: Global Warming

Create the problem?

Ok guys, I (Secular Scientist) am going to perform a study using temperature stations, we are funded by George Soros, Green Peace, And Every Liberal Org in the world

Our desired outcome is to create information that supports our desired outcomes of increasing world temps?

Ok Fred, your going to be lead Scientist over weather station placement, yes get them as close to unnatural heat syncs as possible, buildings, mechanical engines, and heat sources.

Desired Outcome: fraudulent studies showing increased temps, to support government controls over the masses to reduce global warming.

What you're arguing here is called, throwing the baby out with the bath water.
"Science got abused before for agendas, thus I reject all science."

It sounds like:
"Some evil people got a hold of guns, thus I hate guns"
"Some people got drowned in seawater on most beaches, thus beaches are bad"

 

[Truth7t7]

What you're arguing here is called, throwing the baby out with the bath water.
"Science got abused before for agendas, thus I reject all science."

It sounds like:
"Some evil people got a hold of guns, thus I hate guns"
"Some people got drowned in seawater on most beaches, thus beaches are bad"

Your claims are empty, the secular scientific community was high jacked long ago, and its lost, you name it, anything goes, global warming, gender correctness, on and on all in the name of Science.

 

[Truth7t7]

In your idea you see the beast waging war against the Jews who denied Jesus as the Messiah in ad66-70. In Scripture the beast wages war against the Lord and his saints. One denies Jesus(Jews) how can they fulfill the Scriptures in Rev. 13 and 17 if they don't believe in Jesus?

Nero wasn't (The Beast) of Revelation, as 2 Thessalonians clearly explains that (The Beast) is destroyed by the Lord Jesus Christ and the brightness of his coming.

Nero committed suicide on June 9, AD68, he wasnt destroyed by the Lord as seen below, nor did Jesus Christ return in 68AD

Historicism's teachings are false

2 Thessalonians 2:5-10KJV
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[Kolistus]

No stubborn refusal, just presented facts.

As John MacArthur explains the basic (Historicist) view below that many follow.

Daniel's AOD seen in Matthew 24:15 was Antiochus Epiphanies 175-165BC

GraceToYou

John MacArthur

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand). (Matthew 24:15)

The abomination of desolation may be translated, “the abomination which makes desolate, or lays waste.” In other words, the abomination causes the desolation.

The prophet Daniel referred to the abomination of desolation three times (9:27; 11:31; 12:11). Virtually every Bible scholar, no matter what his views on eschatology, identifies that abomination as the sacrilege committed by Antiochus IV, the Syrian king who ruled Palestine from 175–165 b.c. as a surrogate of the Greek empire. He took to himself the title Theos Epiphanes, which means “manifest god,” but his enemies nicknamed him Epimanes, which means “madman” or “the insane one.” Ironically, when he died in 163, he was totally insane, outraged to the point of madness because of his military defeats by the Jewish rebel Judas Maccabaeus. The text of Daniel 11:21–35 perfectly describes the rule of Antiochus, who gained his throne “by intrigue” (v. 21), made numerous excursions into Egypt (vv. 24–27), broke his covenant with Israel (v. 28), and desecrated the Temple in Jerusalem (v. 31).

Isnt John MacArthur a futurist? Doesnt' he believe the abomination of desolation is yet future?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

In ad66-70 the ones the beast wars in the siege were Jews who denied Jesus,,,in Revelation 13 and 17 the ones who the beast wages war against are confessing Christian Saints and the Lord,,,night and day difference.

Jewish Wars..............Rebels against Rome
Christian Saints............it is well known that the church was persecuted by Nero for saying Jesus Christ is Lord/God, Nero had proclaimed himself to be a god. He did not like competition. The torments and savage deaths these people suffered probably rank as the worst ever among all victims.

 

[iamsoandso]

Nero wasn't (The Beast) of Revelation, as 2 Thessalonians clearly explains that (The Beast) is destroyed by the Lord Jesus Christ and the brightness of his coming.

Nero committed suicide on June 9, AD68, he wasnt destroyed by the Lord as seen below, nor did Jesus Christ return in 68AD

Historicism's teachings are false
Thessalonians 2:5-10KJV
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

I agree the hypothesis about the Caesars being who is refereed to in Rev.17 is something that was advanced from the middle ages because large groups of Christians had begun to consider the Popes/Vatican as potential's of it's fulfillment and so it was a counter to that. Robert Flemming the younger(and other's) wrote a lot about it in the 1700's showing it's inconsistencies with Scripture. It began as a way to provide another group to say fulfilled this but ended up spawning the protestant separation, the thing about it is it's spread all over the place and so three's a lot of people who are taken in by it so the many inconsistencies like the one your pointing out here are probably the best way to explain the error to those taken in by it.

 

[iamsoandso]

Jewish Wars..............Rebels against Rome
Christian Saints............it is well known that the church was persecuted by Nero for saying Jesus Christ is Lord/God, Nero had proclaimed himself to be a god. He did not like competition. The torments and savage deaths these people suffered probably rank as the worst ever among all victims.

Did you notice that in Scripture the Lord wins and the beast is cast into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20-21) but Rome was who was victorious in the revolts and Rome was not destroyed?