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all are with him, regardless of belief. just as all things serve God regardless of understanding. mark 4 vs 11 12 tries to explain this. now i lay me down to sleep, i pray the lord my soul to keep, if i die before i awake, i pray the lord my soul to take. as we sleep we ask God to keep our soul safe. those who die before they awake ask the lord to save them. now most people would apply this prayer before they went to bed for the night. to me it also applies to those who are asleep in their souls as they go about their day. some of those souls become awake before a person dies. you could consider this as being born again or as becoming a saint. one thing a lot of people seem to forget is that our souls are to awake before we die of old age or other causes. the bible teaches us about this. not all do this, so we ask that Jesus will save those who do not awaken in this life time. confession is key.
someone asked how can someone who is awake show how someone who is asleep is still with Christ. this is a hard thing to do, most only see the parable. i will attempt to give an example. listen to a song by a non believer, instead of putting your focus on the singer, focus on the words. now imagine that while that person is singing the Holy Spirit is also singing with that person. you can have dual context within a song. as an example i will use the singer madonna and the song, open your heart to me. when you listen to it you can either hear madonna singing about a boy she likes or you can hear the Spirit singing with her and how the Spirit is reaching out to us, through all of creation, with love. now of course many will say this song or that song wont work that way. so i suggest you do so with your own music. Christian music already does this. to which i quote the bible. what we do in the open, they do in secret.
a nice example of what its like to become awake is from the movie the matrix. after taking the pill, things get odd around you, and your sucked into a whole new world and reality. a seed is a parable, you have planted your own garden. when you awake your parable seeds will grow into the truth of the bible.
still we seem to have hijacked this post from its original topic
Duewell
someone asked how can someone who is awake show how someone who is asleep is still with Christ. this is a hard thing to do, most only see the parable. i will attempt to give an example. listen to a song by a non believer, instead of putting your focus on the singer, focus on the words. now imagine that while that person is singing the Holy Spirit is also singing with that person. you can have dual context within a song. as an example i will use the singer madonna and the song, open your heart to me. when you listen to it you can either hear madonna singing about a boy she likes or you can hear the Spirit singing with her and how the Spirit is reaching out to us, through all of creation, with love. now of course many will say this song or that song wont work that way. so i suggest you do so with your own music. Christian music already does this. to which i quote the bible. what we do in the open, they do in secret.
a nice example of what its like to become awake is from the movie the matrix. after taking the pill, things get odd around you, and your sucked into a whole new world and reality. a seed is a parable, you have planted your own garden. when you awake your parable seeds will grow into the truth of the bible.
still we seem to have hijacked this post from its original topic
Duewell
What is your understanding of the following scripture,
Hebrews 9:27 (KJV)
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
....and what do you make of this scripture,
2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Hebrews 9:27 (KJV)
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
....and what do you make of this scripture,
2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
all are with him, regardless of belief. just as all things serve God regardless of understanding. mark 4 vs 11 12 tries to explain this. now i lay me down to sleep, i pray the lord my soul to keep, if i die before i awake, i pray the lord my soul to take. as we sleep we ask God to keep our soul safe. those who die before they awake ask the lord to save them. now most people would apply this prayer before they went to bed for the night. to me it also applies to those who are asleep in their souls as they go about their day. some of those souls become awake before a person dies. you could consider this as being born again or as becoming a saint. one thing a lot of people seem to forget is that our souls are to awake before we die of old age or other causes. the bible teaches us about this. not all do this, so we ask that Jesus will save those who do not awaken in this life time. confession is key.
someone asked how can someone who is awake show how someone who is asleep is still with Christ. this is a hard thing to do, most only see the parable. i will attempt to give an example. listen to a song by a non believer, instead of putting your focus on the singer, focus on the words. now imagine that while that person is singing the Holy Spirit is also singing with that person. you can have dual context within a song. as an example i will use the singer madonna and the song, open your heart to me. when you listen to it you can either hear madonna singing about a boy she likes or you can hear the Spirit singing with her and how the Spirit is reaching out to us, through all of creation, with love. now of course many will say this song or that song wont work that way. so i suggest you do so with your own music. Christian music already does this. to which i quote the bible. what we do in the open, they do in secret.
a nice example of what its like to become awake is from the movie the matrix. after taking the pill, things get odd around you, and your sucked into a whole new world and reality. a seed is a parable, you have planted your own garden. when you awake your parable seeds will grow into the truth of the bible.
still we seem to have hijacked this post from its original topic
Duewell
someone asked how can someone who is awake show how someone who is asleep is still with Christ. this is a hard thing to do, most only see the parable. i will attempt to give an example. listen to a song by a non believer, instead of putting your focus on the singer, focus on the words. now imagine that while that person is singing the Holy Spirit is also singing with that person. you can have dual context within a song. as an example i will use the singer madonna and the song, open your heart to me. when you listen to it you can either hear madonna singing about a boy she likes or you can hear the Spirit singing with her and how the Spirit is reaching out to us, through all of creation, with love. now of course many will say this song or that song wont work that way. so i suggest you do so with your own music. Christian music already does this. to which i quote the bible. what we do in the open, they do in secret.
a nice example of what its like to become awake is from the movie the matrix. after taking the pill, things get odd around you, and your sucked into a whole new world and reality. a seed is a parable, you have planted your own garden. when you awake your parable seeds will grow into the truth of the bible.
still we seem to have hijacked this post from its original topic
Duewell
lolz..
Duewell Good post , I know what you mean with music, it happens that way to me too.
But if you were not Spiritually minded and aware of Him, I dont' think it would.
So the fact that you hear Him like this just means you are spiritually awake.
Quoted by: Cronjecj
What is your understanding of the following scripture,
Hebrews 9:27 (KJV)
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
To be honest, believe it or not, I have not had this revealed to me, probably
because I have not asked, but I will now.
I just know that He became Judgment for me, and I have been baptised into
His Death.
....and what do you make of this scripture,
2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Paul is correct, it is better to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord
this I have experienced, But that does not mean that He is not present with me every hour
of everyday. It's just different being out of this body of flesh.
And I can promise you there is no regrets, no missing things, people, etc...etc.... He is all
and in all, His Love is all consuming.
But if you were not Spiritually minded and aware of Him, I dont' think it would.
So the fact that you hear Him like this just means you are spiritually awake.
Quoted by: Cronjecj
What is your understanding of the following scripture,
Hebrews 9:27 (KJV)
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
To be honest, believe it or not, I have not had this revealed to me, probably
because I have not asked, but I will now.
I just know that He became Judgment for me, and I have been baptised into
His Death.
....and what do you make of this scripture,
2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Paul is correct, it is better to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord
this I have experienced, But that does not mean that He is not present with me every hour
of everyday. It's just different being out of this body of flesh.
And I can promise you there is no regrets, no missing things, people, etc...etc.... He is all
and in all, His Love is all consuming.
I
All men have to die. Upon knowing this, that death comes to all. And that One came to save all, then ALL WERE DEAD. Upon being one in His death, we will also ALL be with Him in resurrection of life.
1 Corinthians 1:10
10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
What is that judgement?
John 12:30-33
30Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33This he said, signifying what death he should die.
A
Revelations 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Deuteronomy 29:
14 “I make this covenant and this oath, not with you alone, 15 but with him who stands here with us today before the LORD our God, as well as with him who is not here with us today 16 (for you know that we dwelt in the land of Egypt and that we came through the nations which you passed by, 17 and you saw their abominations and their idols which were among them—wood and stone and silver and gold); 18 so that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; 19 and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, ‘I shall have peace, even though I follow the dictates[a] of my heart’—as though the drunkard could be included with the sober. 20 “The LORD would not spare him; for then the anger of the LORD and His jealousy would burn against that man, and every curse that is written in this book would settle on him, and the LORD would blot out his name from under heaven.
Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
you can follow dictates of your heart if you choose but as for me and my house we shall serve the LORD.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Deuteronomy 29:
14 “I make this covenant and this oath, not with you alone, 15 but with him who stands here with us today before the LORD our God, as well as with him who is not here with us today 16 (for you know that we dwelt in the land of Egypt and that we came through the nations which you passed by, 17 and you saw their abominations and their idols which were among them—wood and stone and silver and gold); 18 so that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; 19 and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, ‘I shall have peace, even though I follow the dictates[a] of my heart’—as though the drunkard could be included with the sober. 20 “The LORD would not spare him; for then the anger of the LORD and His jealousy would burn against that man, and every curse that is written in this book would settle on him, and the LORD would blot out his name from under heaven.
Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
you can follow dictates of your heart if you choose but as for me and my house we shall serve the LORD.
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Paul speaking to Christians.
The judgement to judge with right judgement directed to Christians.
John 7:24 (KJV)
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.
Jesus also came to destroy the works of the devil so that those who believe unto Christ, for them there is no condemnation for what Jesus did on the cross.
1 John 3:8 (KJV)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
The judgement to judge with right judgement directed to Christians.
John 7:24 (KJV)
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.
Jesus also came to destroy the works of the devil so that those who believe unto Christ, for them there is no condemnation for what Jesus did on the cross.
1 John 3:8 (KJV)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Salvation was no different in nature under the old versus the new covenant. Also under the old covenant God's people were circumcised in heart.
However, I believe that the sign and seal of the covenant has been transferred from circumcision of the flesh in the old covenant to water baptism in the new covenant.
However, I believe that the sign and seal of the covenant has been transferred from circumcision of the flesh in the old covenant to water baptism in the new covenant.
Yes, I would see it that way too nowadays. If baptism now replaces circumcision as the sign and seal of the covenant, then it must consequently mean that we need baptism today as much as the old covenant Saints needed circumcision in their day. Yet, of course, baptism without faith helps nothing.
The question that follows then is if baptismal regeneration is a reality, or if baptism is literally just a sign and a seal, not being the thing itself signified? As you probably know, for example presbyterianism (for the most part) would see baptism as a " badge" and an entrance to the covenant community, not necessarily conferring regeneration. Lutheranism as another example on the other hand would say that baptism is regenerational but that it will avail nothing aside from faith.
Finally, back to the actual topic. The question if whether the justified thief was baptized or not (which he most likely was, in some form, assuming he was jewish) might actually be a secondary issue. Since this was under the old covenant, what counted most was that he was circumcised (this is, again, assuming he was jewish). Right?
The question that follows then is if baptismal regeneration is a reality, or if baptism is literally just a sign and a seal, not being the thing itself signified? As you probably know, for example presbyterianism (for the most part) would see baptism as a " badge" and an entrance to the covenant community, not necessarily conferring regeneration. Lutheranism as another example on the other hand would say that baptism is regenerational but that it will avail nothing aside from faith.
Finally, back to the actual topic. The question if whether the justified thief was baptized or not (which he most likely was, in some form, assuming he was jewish) might actually be a secondary issue. Since this was under the old covenant, what counted most was that he was circumcised (this is, again, assuming he was jewish). Right?