What if God had written IN STONE?

[Nehemiah6]

The cross brought with it the end of one covenant and the introduction of another.

And God had planned this all along (even from before the foundation of the world). He brought Christ into the world at His perfect time, "made under the Law", and Christ brought an end to the Old Covenant when He cried victoriously "IT IS FINISHED" as He dismissed His spirit.

God the Father confirmed this by supernaturally tearing down the veil separating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place. This meant an end to the Levitical priesthood, temple worship and everything connected with it, and in fact the Law of Moses. It is all clearly spelled out in the epistle to the Hebrews. For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law... For there is verily a disannulling* of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. (Heb 7:12,18) These are very significant statements, but generally ignored. "Disannulling" is the same as nullification.

*Strong's Concordance
athetésis: a setting aside
Original Word: ἀθέτησις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: athetésis
Phonetic Spelling: (ath-et'-ay-sis)
Definition: a setting aside
Usage: annulment, nullification, abrogation.

Indeed Hebrew Christians were being urged not to revert to Moses after Christ finished His work of redemption (Heb 8:6-10). That is the primary purpose for this epistle.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the Mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the Covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my Covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

It is the indwelling Holy Spirit who not only writes God's laws in our hearts and minds, but empowers Christians to obey the Law of Christ (which incorporates the Ten Commandments into itself).

And even Moses was aware that Christ would come and prophesied about it, and then at the Transfiguration, he met with Christ (along with Elijah) to discuss the finished work of Christ. The word used there is "exodus" which could encompass a lot. Moses will be preaching the Gospel (along with Elijah) for 3 1/2 years while the Antichrist reigns.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I'm not referring to obedience. I'm referring to what the Bible teaches. The cross brought with it the end of one covenant and the introduction of another. The difference in covenants necessitated changes. The nature of the covenants necessitated changes. And Jesus Himself made changes. I'm merely pointing out that because a thing has been done in a particular way previously doesn't mean under different conditions, it must remain the same.
Farmers once used animals to plow fields. Now they use machines. Why? Revelation produced understanding that produced technology that resulted in changes. In like manner, revelation concerning God wrought understanding of Christ that wrought changes in the responses of men towards God.

the 10 Commandments are not just a part of the Old Covenant, it's the Moral Law for Both Covenants.
if they ended, why did Paul keep them?

 

[Cameron143]

And God had planned this all along (even from before the foundation of the world). He brought Christ into the world at His perfect time, "made under the Law", and Christ brought an end to the Old Covenant when He cried victoriously "IT IS FINISHED" as He dismissed His spirit.

God the Father confirmed this by supernaturally tearing down the veil separating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place. This meant an end to the Levitical priesthood, temple worship and everything connected with it, and in fact the Law of Moses. It is all clearly spelled out in the epistle to the Hebrews. For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law... For there is verily a disannulling* of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. (Heb 7:12,18) These are very significant statements, but generally ignored. "Disannulling" is the same as nullification.

*Strong's Concordance
athetésis: a setting aside
Original Word: ἀθέτησις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: athetésis
Phonetic Spelling: (ath-et'-ay-sis)
Definition: a setting aside
Usage: annulment, nullification, abrogation.

Indeed Hebrew Christians were being urged not to revert to Moses after Christ finished His work of redemption (Heb 8:6-10). That is the primary purpose for this epistle.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the Mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the Covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my Covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

It is the indwelling Holy Spirit who not only writes God's laws in our hearts and minds, but empowers Christians to obey the Law of Christ (which incorporates the Ten Commandments into itself).

And even Moses was aware that Christ would come and prophesied about it, and then at the Transfiguration, he met with Christ (along with Elijah) to discuss the finished work of Christ. The word used there is "exodus" which could encompass a lot. Moses will be preaching the Gospel (along with Elijah) for 3 1/2 years while the Antichrist reigns.

I certainly agree with everything up to the final paragraph. But you knew already we disagree on this.

 

[Cameron143]

the 10 Commandments are not part of the Old Covenant, it's the Moral Law for Both Covenants.
if they ended, why did Paul keep them?

I never said they ended. I have said all along, Christians obey the law. But they obey not as a means to satisfy righteousness, but as a demonstration of the righteousness imputed to us.

 

[Cameron143]

I never said they ended. I have said all along, Christians obey the law. But they obey not as a means to satisfy righteousness, but as a demonstration of the righteousness imputed to us.

I probably should have added the reality also that the law has been written on our hearts, we are being led by the Spirit, and that God is working in us,willing and doing of His good pleasure.

 

[posthuman]

they were already fishing and Jesus just assisted them in that.

they were already doing it, Jesus, just put His touch to it because what ultimately happened?
Peter, committed to Christ.

that's why it happened and no other reason.

i was talking about Matthew 17, the redemption money for the temple tax, and the coin in the mouth of the fish.

interestingly Peter drops a line to catch it - every other mention of fishing is with nets

but, it is a command from Christ.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Cameron143,


Good answers.
i know several Doctrines are currently active from Paul's Teachings, but, he breaks the Commandments down and no one Preaches that.

I think the fact that Paul said he observed them, and People follow Paul's written words, it only makes sense they should also follow the Commandments. but Protestants teach the Commandments are the Law, which we know is INCORRECT. But still, Paul, is as Saved as all of us, he is the author to many beliefs, just odd we pick and choose, even though, we see, he was Following them.

 

[Dino246]

The 10 Commandments were given to all mankind, as I've already made clear.

Wrong.

Exodus 20:1-3 And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

Were you ever a slave in Egypt? No. Was I? No. Were most Christians? No. The commandments were given to Israel.

Deut. 29:11, 14-15 prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the 10 Commandments were given to all mankind and absolutely NOT only to the Jews.

Wrong again.

Deuteronomy 29:1 These are the terms of the covenant the Lord commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab

Deuteronomy 29:2 Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them

9 Carefully follow the terms of this covenant, so that you may prosper in everything you do. 10 All of you are standing today in the presence of the Lord your God—your leaders and chief men, your elders and officials, and all the other men of Israel, 11 together with your children and your wives, and the foreigners living in your camps who chop your wood and carry your water. 12 You are standing here in order to enter into a covenant with the Lord your God, a covenant the Lord is making with you this day and sealing with an oath, 13 to confirm you this day as his people, that he may be your God as he promised you and as he swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 14 I am making this covenant, with its oath, not only with you 15 who are standing here with us today in the presence of the Lord our God but also with those who are not here today.

Do you chop wood or carry water for ancient Israelites? No. Do I? No. Does any Christian, ever? No.

Verse 15 doesn't "everyone ever"; the clear context is ancient Israelites.

Case closed ... once again.

Yes... that you are incorrect, and further, that you don't know how to apply context so that you correctly interpret Scripture.

 

[Braweh]

CHRIST IS THE LAW!

Isn't that the Truth!

Hey, BGOT.

Just curious, what would be your guess as to why this thread and the 'Would Jesus drink Alcohol?' thread don't accurately show the reactions on the main thread page?

This one shows zero reactions when it has countless likes, loves and winner reactions and the Alcohol thread only shows negative reactions when it has many likes, agrees and winner reactions.

What would you think might be goin on with that?

Pretty strange, and blatant, wouldn't you say?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

i was talking about Matthew 17, the redemption money for the temple tax, and the coin in the mouth of the fish.

interestingly Peter drops a line to catch it - every other mention of fishing is with nets

but, it is a command from Christ.

You mean when Jesus had to pay Taxes, He had His Disciples go fish?

well, if Jesus ever needs to pay taxes again, hopefully we're listening.

 

[Braweh]

And God had planned this all along (even from before the foundation of the world). He brought Christ into the world at His perfect time, "made under the Law", and Christ brought an end to the Old Covenant when He cried victoriously "IT IS FINISHED" as He dismissed His spirit.

God the Father confirmed this by supernaturally tearing down the veil separating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place. This meant an end to the Levitical priesthood, temple worship and everything connected with it, and in fact the Law of Moses. It is all clearly spelled out in the epistle to the Hebrews. For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law... For there is verily a disannulling* of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. (Heb 7:12,18) These are very significant statements, but generally ignored. "Disannulling" is the same as nullification.

*Strong's Concordance
athetésis: a setting aside
Original Word: ἀθέτησις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: athetésis
Phonetic Spelling: (ath-et'-ay-sis)
Definition: a setting aside
Usage: annulment, nullification, abrogation.

Indeed Hebrew Christians were being urged not to revert to Moses after Christ finished His work of redemption (Heb 8:6-10). That is the primary purpose for this epistle.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the Mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the Covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my Covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

It is the indwelling Holy Spirit who not only writes God's laws in our hearts and minds, but empowers Christians to obey the Law of Christ (which incorporates the Ten Commandments into itself).

And even Moses was aware that Christ would come and prophesied about it, and then at the Transfiguration, he met with Christ (along with Elijah) to discuss the finished work of Christ. The word used there is "exodus" which could encompass a lot. Moses will be preaching the Gospel (along with Elijah) for 3 1/2 years while the Antichrist reigns.

It is laughable that multiple of you are declaring that the "It is finsihed!" quote from Jesus on the Cross somehow definitively proves that He was referring specifically to the 10 Commandments.

That statement alone could've referred to absolutely anything.

The veil in the Temple was finished for sure. Ripped right down the middle.

The reign of many of the demon-gods in the area was certainly finished as Christ's following exploded after his Death.

The daylight was finished as it became dark as night at the moment of His death.

Nowhere does the Bible claim that Jesus was referring to the end of the 10 Commandments yet one after another doubter of the True Gospel message continues to jump on the silly "It is finished!" bandwagon and claim we no longer have any sin and there are no longer any Commandments for Christians.

Absolute Biblical heresy.

 

[posthuman]

Deut. 29:11 reveals there were strangers among the Israelites who were not Israelites at all.

non-Hebrew slaves living among them:

Deuteronomy 29:11​

also the stranger who is in your camp, from the one who cuts your wood to the one who draws your water​

Deut. 29:14-15 reveals very specifically that all the 10 Commandments were not only given to these strangers as well, but that they were given to all that were not present at Mt. Sinai at that time as well.

their descendants:

Deuteronomy 29:22​

so that the coming generation of your children who rise up after you... ​

 

[Theopolitan]

That's not my issue, it's the modern Christian's issue.

No Christian has anything against any of the other 9 Commandments, but they've been taught to hate the 4th Commandment.

That makes you, and all of them, hypocrites.

Do you murder, steal, lie, commit adultery, abuse your parents, etc.?

Most likely not.

But bring up the Holy Sabbath and you all cringe like sunlight has hit a vampire because you have been conditioned to believe there is a stigma around God's Holy Day that is taught nowhere in Scripture.

Thought so.

You need to study this out a little more.

Matthew 12:3-7 KJV - But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.​

​

Once you understand why the priests were blameless in 'profaning the sabbath,' (Jesus's words. Not mine.) then you'll understand how the NT saints observe the sabbath 24/7.

The Fourth Commandment is a commandment to believe in Jesus, and cease from one's own works of righteousness. To enter into rest.

 

[posthuman]

Deut. 29:14-15 reveals very specifically that all the 10 Commandments..

Deuteronomy 28-30 isn't about the ten commandments.
it's about the old covenant God made with Israel. the entire law of that covenant, all of it. the sacrifices, the feasts, the washings, the diet, the beard, the tzitzit, circumcision, all of it.

 

[posthuman]

The surrounding nations?

You'll have to be more specific.

Chapter and verse?

i'm asking you to find even one single mention of any non-Jewish people ever being in trouble with God ever for not keeping sabbaths, because none of them ever did.

i am asking for evidence for your position that the entire world is under the Mosaic covenant.


admittedly it's a total wild goose chase, of course.

Romans 2:14​

Gentiles, who do not have the law.. ​

 

[Cameron143]

Cameron143,


Good answers.
i know several Doctrines are currently active from Paul's Teachings, but, he breaks the Commandments down and no one Preaches that.

I think the fact that Paul said he observed them, and People follow Paul's written words, it only makes sense they should also follow the Commandments. but Protestants teach the Commandments are the Law, which we know is INCORRECT. But still, Paul, is as Saved as all of us, he is the author to many beliefs, just odd we pick and choose, even though, we see, he was Following them.

I think more is being made of this than is necessary. Romans 6:17 says we obey from the heart because we are no longer servants of sin, but servants of righteousness. We can literally walk in the Spirit and not sin. So our focus should be on walking in the Spirit. He can only lead us in the way of righteousness.

What I find is so many people trying to garner God's favor by keeping whatever their understanding of the law is. We already possess God's favor. And very few people understand what is truly engendered in the keeping of any singular command. Added to this, many would put others under their own erroneous understanding, and people are confused. What ought to be taught, in my opinion, is how to walk in the Spirit.

I do agree the law is worth studying that we know the benefits that accrue to us as we obey, and that we obey with understanding. But practically, we should focus on His kingdom and His righteousness.

 

[Dino246]

The daylight was finished as it became dark as night at the moment of His death.

That's incorrect.

Luke 23:44-46 It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon, 45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

The darkness came over the land at noon; Jesus died about three in the afternoon.

one after another doubter of the True Gospel message

That would be you and your allies. The true gospel message is right relationship with God through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, not right relationship with God through adherence to the ten commandments.

Nowhere does the Bible claim that Jesus was referring to the end of the 10 Commandments yet one after another doubter of the True Gospel message continues to jump on the silly "It is finished!" bandwagon and claim we no longer have any sin and there are no longer any Commandments for Christians.

Nobody has claimed that "we no longer have any sin".

Nobody has claimed "there are no longer any Commandments for Christians".

Absolute Biblical heresy.

You don't seem to know what 'heresy' is either, despite the fact that you preach it here daily.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dino246]

The Fourth Commandment is a commandment to believe in Jesus, and cease from one's own works of righteousness. To enter into rest.

If this were true, then the man collecting sticks on the Sabbath would not have been executed (Numbers 15:32-36). Gathering firewood has nothing to do with "works of righteousness".

 

[Dino246]

I did not ask to superimpose a timeline on eternity.

When...?

^^^^^

Yes, you did.

 

[posthuman]

^^^^^

Yes, you did.

bingo