Where did the idea that the soul is immortal originate?
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Actually, I saw a bunch of replies. You just refuse to answer to such replies. I think they've just given up as you have proven yourself to be an entirely unreasonable person. No one in their right mind would continue to address someone who never replies except with bogus quotes from internet sites that make slanderous claims. I, for one, am not going to reply to your posts again either. I might as well be arguing with my five year old who wants a cookie and will say anything to get one.
C
Where did my soul come from ? I haven't got a clue ! Was it floating about waiting for me....... I don't really think this can be answered by anything other than opinion. God gave it to me I know that, but was it mine, was it for me beforehand or could someone born just a second before now be me..................... Not a clue.
L
Danschance the posts you made about the 7th day adventist church and Ellen White was only partial truth mixed with lies and critisism. Therefore it is slander. If you want to know about SDA and Ellen White do not learn from critical websites that are only condeming. Learn from the SDA church for yourself.
D
I understand that is your contention. Please post the "lie" I posted with the truth. Slander is spoken libel is printed. I think you mean I libeled.
Seriously, If I caught a person in a lie, I would post the lie and the truth and ask them to explain it. I think most would, but instead I am accused of lying, "slander" (libel) and being immature.
Seriously, If I caught a person in a lie, I would post the lie and the truth and ask them to explain it. I think most would, but instead I am accused of lying, "slander" (libel) and being immature.
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This is your first post. The SDA church was not started by Ellen White. She was part of it but not started by her, so that is your first lie. As for copying look at what she speaks on health, doctors who are not SDA have read her books on health and have asked where she got her info cause it is in advance to anything taught in her time. Doctors are only catching up to what she wrote on health. You call her a liar so that is slander. This is a Bible discussion forum and this topic is not about the SDA church or Ellen White but, you continue to bring it up and criticizing the SDA church and Ellen White.
Why cant you stick to a proper Bible discussion without being critical of the SDA church and Ellen White?
Why cant you stick to a proper Bible discussion without being critical of the SDA church and Ellen White?
D
OK, so my "lie" was about EGW founding the SDA church. How is that slander(libel)? That actually makes her look good not bad and you were actually offended by this? Is this really a lie (deception) or an error on my part? Thankx for correcting me. I will never say she founded the SDA church.
Edgar Casey, the sleeping prophet, had advanced medical knowledge. He suggested a young boy's knee cap be pinned back together by nails and it was the first time metal pins were used on broken bones. He was demon possessed and no doubt the source of his supernatural knowledge. Jesus warned us not to follow false signs and lying wonders mean to deceive. I have no clue about how advanced her medical insights were. All I know I will never follow her, her teachings or anything about her.
Your last post had nothing to do with the bible. In fact this is a discussion forum, right? We have been discussing the bible even though not every post is directly about the bible. Yes, I have attacked Ellen G WHite as she has led many into false teachings. I don't care if she claims a diet is better than another. She is saying false doctrine that we do not have a soul that survives death, there is no such thing as hell or consequences for sin, salvation by works, Only worship God on a Saturday and false prophecies.
My goal is to help those trapped in the SDA church to find the truth.
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The Bible claims, "The soul that sinneth shall die." Ezekiel 18:4 You claim we have a soul that survives death.
The Bible says the wicked are destroyed and turned to ashes. Malachi 4:3. Satan is turned to ashes as well. Ezekiel 28:18,19. God says:
"You shall trample the wicked. For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,"
" I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you. All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you. You have become a horror, and shall be no more." Ezekiel 28:18,19
"For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more....the enemies of the Lord,,,into smoke they shall vanish away." Psalm 37:10,20
Clearly, there is a consequence to sin. God says it's eternal death by being burned up and turned into ashes. You claim the wicked are immortal beings that can never be destroyed. God clearly says they are burned up and vanish away!
We are saved by Grace. All men that are saved are done so by Grace, and Grace alone. Those who lived before the Crucifixtion of Jesus looked towards it. We who live after Jesus was crucified look backwards at the Cross. All men from Adam to the last name written in the book of Life are saved by Grace and Grace alone!!! We keep the Commandments of God because we Love Jesus! Are you married? I am faithful to my wife, because I love her. Same with God and His Commandments:
"If ye love Me, keep My Commandments." Jesus said that.
We obey the Sabbath command. The 4th Commandment. We are doing what God says we are to do. We go to church on the 7th day because that is what Our Example did. Luke 4:16. Jesus kept the Sabbath and He is Our example.
We pray to God daily. We simply believe that God sanctified and hallowed the 7th day like He said. So, the 7th day is the day that we keep Holy by refraining from the world, and devoting that time to spend with God and contemplating the things of God.
I've adressed each of your lies that you have publicly declared. You are in error.
I have told you that this earth will be the lake of fire.
The Bible says the wicked are destroyed and turned to ashes. Malachi 4:3. Satan is turned to ashes as well. Ezekiel 28:18,19. God says:
"You shall trample the wicked. For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,"
" I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you. All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you. You have become a horror, and shall be no more." Ezekiel 28:18,19
"For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more....the enemies of the Lord,,,into smoke they shall vanish away." Psalm 37:10,20
Clearly, there is a consequence to sin. God says it's eternal death by being burned up and turned into ashes. You claim the wicked are immortal beings that can never be destroyed. God clearly says they are burned up and vanish away!
We are saved by Grace. All men that are saved are done so by Grace, and Grace alone. Those who lived before the Crucifixtion of Jesus looked towards it. We who live after Jesus was crucified look backwards at the Cross. All men from Adam to the last name written in the book of Life are saved by Grace and Grace alone!!! We keep the Commandments of God because we Love Jesus! Are you married? I am faithful to my wife, because I love her. Same with God and His Commandments:
"If ye love Me, keep My Commandments." Jesus said that.
We obey the Sabbath command. The 4th Commandment. We are doing what God says we are to do. We go to church on the 7th day because that is what Our Example did. Luke 4:16. Jesus kept the Sabbath and He is Our example.
We pray to God daily. We simply believe that God sanctified and hallowed the 7th day like He said. So, the 7th day is the day that we keep Holy by refraining from the world, and devoting that time to spend with God and contemplating the things of God.
I've adressed each of your lies that you have publicly declared. You are in error.
I have told you that this earth will be the lake of fire.
V
Wow. There's been multiple threads on the hell issue. I myself have seen so many replies to your posts I couldn't put a number on them. I've replied to quite a few. You just totally ignore anything you can't answer, obviously. It's not just Holly that's noticed this. Your scriptures on hell? You're still going on with that? Why should anyone answer you at this point when they've already tried that over and over? You didn't hear it then, you won't hear it now. Total waste of time. Believe what you want, but you're sure not selling it to anyone else, unless they already believe it.
V
You obviously know nothing about the 7th Day Adventist church. I have family members that are 7th day adventists. I'm not into all they believe myself, but the things I don't totally agree with have to do with small things like not wearing jewelry and such. I KNOW that what you posted are nothing but lies. Seventh Day Adventists would never have read Ellen White's books if she had believed and written about those things claimed in your slanderous article . She herself said that if anyone has any issues with her writings, if anyone believes they contradict scripture, then to go strictly to scripture alone. Again, if she'd said such things as you suggest, no one would ever have taken her seriously. You site a bunch of supposed quotes from places virtually impossible to look up. That sure comes in handy for slanderers. How about you read some of her writings for yourself? You'd be amazed. They're just straight forward Christian writings that any pastor could read to their denomination and the people wouldn't know she wasn't even from their church, except, of course, for her writings about the sabbath, which she felt were very important. Yes, she wrote some prophecies about that. Those haven't happened yet, but those prophecies were made for the future. You can't call her a false prophet if her prophecies may yet come true. Yeah, I know, internet sites are always saying she prophesied this or that that didn't come true, but Adventists always laugh and say they never can find where she made all these supposed prophecies. I've tried myself to find them and haven't ever been able too. But the original point made about this was this: because Ellen White believes the soul is not immortal doesn't mean everyone else that believes this is a follower of her beliefs, though I don't consider her discredited one way or another, but that's not my point. There's tons of people in other denominations that believe the soul is not immortal and that the Bible never taught this. And for you to tear into Ellen White and the 7th day Adventists, trying to discredit them because they happen to share this belief shows that you don't even know how to debate properly.
Logical fallacy: if a person presenting an argument has some issue you don't like for whatever reason, this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether their argument is valid. The argument should be judged on the points made to support their argument. Period.
By the way, Ellen White would tell you to follow Jesus. To think she or any 7thdayer in this world would tell you to follow Ellen White shows how little you know about her and the 7th day Adventists.
Logical fallacy: if a person presenting an argument has some issue you don't like for whatever reason, this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether their argument is valid. The argument should be judged on the points made to support their argument. Period.
By the way, Ellen White would tell you to follow Jesus. To think she or any 7thdayer in this world would tell you to follow Ellen White shows how little you know about her and the 7th day Adventists.
You present the OT view of death as they saw it--the very opposite of life, where there was no revelation from God regarding resurrection.
The incomplete revelation of the OT is to be understood in the light of Jesus' complete revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT.
You set the Scriptures against themselves, instead of understanding them in the light of the NT.
The incomplete revelation of the OT is to be understood in the light of Jesus' complete revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT.
You set the Scriptures against themselves, instead of understanding them in the light of the NT.
Does being a smart-ass go hand-in-hand with being a Bible rejector?
Malachi 4:3 says the wicked become ashes
Ezekiel 28:18,19 says Satan is turned to ashes, that he will be no more, forever. ON the EARTH he is burned up
Psalm 37:10,20 says "In yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more...And the enemies of the Lord..shall vanish. INTO SMOKE THEY SHALL VANISH AWAY."
You reject all 3 of those scriptures and even more. You reject :
"The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything...Also their love ,hatred, and their envy, is now perished." Eccleaastes 9:5,6
down and riesth not, til the heavens be no more they shall not awake nor be raised out of their sleep..." "His sons come to honor him and he know it not." Job 14:12,21
"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Psalm 146:4
I could go on all day with more scriptures. But, you are a Bible rejector.
Under your erroneous theology,, you beleive the dead are all alive conversing someplace. And God must be so inept at creating that he must come back to earth to get the dust that formed us??? Why? Why would Jesus have to come back to earth to raise our dead bodies if we are alive in heaven after we die? Has Jesus explained why He can't make you a new body right there in heaven where you think you are residing once you die? A great magician would'nt have to come back here, if you are already there, now would He?
You are self-deluded. "Believe as you desire". You are a contradicting Bible Rejector!
Malachi 4:3 says the wicked become ashes
Ezekiel 28:18,19 says Satan is turned to ashes, that he will be no more, forever. ON the EARTH he is burned up
Psalm 37:10,20 says "In yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more...And the enemies of the Lord..shall vanish. INTO SMOKE THEY SHALL VANISH AWAY."
You reject all 3 of those scriptures and even more. You reject :
"The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything...Also their love ,hatred, and their envy, is now perished." Eccleaastes 9:5,6
down and riesth not, til the heavens be no more they shall not awake nor be raised out of their sleep..." "His sons come to honor him and he know it not." Job 14:12,21
"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Psalm 146:4
I could go on all day with more scriptures. But, you are a Bible rejector.
Under your erroneous theology,, you beleive the dead are all alive conversing someplace. And God must be so inept at creating that he must come back to earth to get the dust that formed us??? Why? Why would Jesus have to come back to earth to raise our dead bodies if we are alive in heaven after we die? Has Jesus explained why He can't make you a new body right there in heaven where you think you are residing once you die? A great magician would'nt have to come back here, if you are already there, now would He?
You are self-deluded. "Believe as you desire". You are a contradicting Bible Rejector!
D
This and other verses talks of death and sin. Surely this is true. "The wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23
The Bible teaches death is not a cessation of existence, but a separation of existence. The soul is our intellect, our personality, our identity. The real person (soul) will live on. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15. Notice how it says death will be cast into the lake of fire and then says "second death". So death is not the end of existence. So posting scriptures on how we will die does not prove the spirits and soul will die also.
Here is a classic example of the types of verses people post when they try to prove that nothing survives death. Phrases such as "destroyed forever", "perish", and "consume away", are often used to describe the final state of the lost, which is the secound death. Now if the bible never said anything else on this subject, I would agree with you that death is the end of existance and yet you have chosen to ignore the clear teachings from the bible that show death is not the end of everything.
(James 2:26 KJV) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(Acts 7:59 KJV) And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
(Eccl 12:7 KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
(Luke 8:53-55 KJV) And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. {54} And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. {55} And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- Col. 2:16
Legalism is a hallmark of a cult. Heaping laws and ordinances on their members when the bible clearly states otherwise. The verse I posted above allows me to worship God on any day I choose. Now if you insist that the "sabbath" must be kept, then why do you not do so? SDA call Saturday the Sabbath. The jews never called that the Sabbath. Their Sabbath was from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, So you are not keeping the Sabbath yourself!
Here we go again. I am accused of lying once more by SDA's. I have also been called a slanderer and immature. Honestly name calling without proof is very immature. If you claim I have lied, please post my lie and I will apologize.
The Bible teaches death is not a cessation of existence, but a separation of existence. The soul is our intellect, our personality, our identity. The real person (soul) will live on. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15. Notice how it says death will be cast into the lake of fire and then says "second death". So death is not the end of existence. So posting scriptures on how we will die does not prove the spirits and soul will die also.
Here is a classic example of the types of verses people post when they try to prove that nothing survives death. Phrases such as "destroyed forever", "perish", and "consume away", are often used to describe the final state of the lost, which is the secound death. Now if the bible never said anything else on this subject, I would agree with you that death is the end of existance and yet you have chosen to ignore the clear teachings from the bible that show death is not the end of everything.
(James 2:26 KJV) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(Acts 7:59 KJV) And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
(Eccl 12:7 KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
(Luke 8:53-55 KJV) And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. {54} And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. {55} And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
(Eccl 3:21 KJV) Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
(Luke 23:46 KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- Col. 2:16
Legalism is a hallmark of a cult. Heaping laws and ordinances on their members when the bible clearly states otherwise. The verse I posted above allows me to worship God on any day I choose. Now if you insist that the "sabbath" must be kept, then why do you not do so? SDA call Saturday the Sabbath. The jews never called that the Sabbath. Their Sabbath was from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, So you are not keeping the Sabbath yourself!
Here we go again. I am accused of lying once more by SDA's. I have also been called a slanderer and immature. Honestly name calling without proof is very immature. If you claim I have lied, please post my lie and I will apologize.
D
Like I have said to everyone who has accused me of lying, please post my lie and also the proof that I have lied and I will immediately post a retraction and a an apology. ...and if you can't, then you are the liar, right?
Well actually I posted a link of two websites that listed where they got the quotes from. Then I posted her quotes along with a reference. Here are two links which have some of her more bizarre quotes and where they came from.
Ellen G. White's Crazy Quotes
Facts Adventists Won
Well actually I posted a link of two websites that listed where they got the quotes from. Then I posted her quotes along with a reference. Here are two links which have some of her more bizarre quotes and where they came from.
Ellen G. White's Crazy Quotes
Facts Adventists Won
D
Twice I have been accused of ignoring posts. You accuse me of not being able to answer difficult questions as the reason for me ignoring them. Honestly, I can't say I have ever ignored a post on this thread. I will leave some threads. Some times I have said what I wanted to say and not posted on that topic again.
Here is my final word on being accused of of ignoring posts:
1) It is my prerogative to post or not to post. If a post is directed to me and it is redundant, bizarre, accusatory, emo or insulting, I might ignore it. For example if I am called a liar, slanderer or immature.
2) If I have ignored a post you really want me to answer please let me know. You can send me a private message and if you are not on my ignore list, I will send you something back or respond to your post.
3) I have no problem admitting a wrong and apologizing for it. If you think I have done something wrong, please send my a message. If I have deliberately ignored a person I would say so now...but I have not ignored anyone deliberately on this post. I do ignore atheist type posts because I feel life is too short to waste my time. I do have some mean spirited personas on ignore and will not respond to anything they post.
I am growing tired of responding to groundless accusations and name calling. Please, if you accuse me of something, also post the proof or I may add your name to list of people in my ignore bin.
Here is my final word on being accused of of ignoring posts:
1) It is my prerogative to post or not to post. If a post is directed to me and it is redundant, bizarre, accusatory, emo or insulting, I might ignore it. For example if I am called a liar, slanderer or immature.
2) If I have ignored a post you really want me to answer please let me know. You can send me a private message and if you are not on my ignore list, I will send you something back or respond to your post.
3) I have no problem admitting a wrong and apologizing for it. If you think I have done something wrong, please send my a message. If I have deliberately ignored a person I would say so now...but I have not ignored anyone deliberately on this post. I do ignore atheist type posts because I feel life is too short to waste my time. I do have some mean spirited personas on ignore and will not respond to anything they post.
I am growing tired of responding to groundless accusations and name calling. Please, if you accuse me of something, also post the proof or I may add your name to list of people in my ignore bin.