Where did the idea that the soul is immortal originate?
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- Excessive seeing is a sin: "Excessive indulgence in eating, drinking, sleeping, or SEEING, is sin." —Counsels on Diet and Foods, page 141, written in 1880. I guess EGW did not want her help "seeing" her excessive indulgence in eating meat, oysters, drinking wine, and stealing material for her books from uninspired authors.
- Piano tuners deal with insanity: In many cases I have advised out-of-door work for piano tuners, telling them that unless they changed their business, they would have to deal with insanity. —Letter 104, 1901. I wonder how many piano tuners tried to tune pianos out-of-doors in the winter so they would not go insane? Really! Perhaps wearing gloves would help keep them from going insane! How many piano tuners have gone insane?
- Having an upset stomach will make infidels: Deranged stomachs have made infidels. You can be a preacher of righteousness in this respect. The greatness of the work that may be accomplished in the lines of health reform has not been comprehended or appreciated. There is religion in the making of good bread. I hope you will consider these things, and realize that your work is of consequence. —Manuscript Releases, Volume Fourteen, page 342, paragraph 2. Would taking Pepto-Bismo after being gassed up eating SDA Veggie meat keep you from becoming infidels? And I always thought an infidel was a person that rejected Christ or was not a Christian—not caused by a deranged stomach.
- Tea and coffee drinking loosens the tongue: When these tea and coffee users meet together for social entertainment, the effects of their pernicious habit are manifest. All partake freely of the favorite beverages, and as the stimulating influence is felt, their tongues are loosened, and they begin the wicked work of talking against others. —Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 423. SDAs must drink a lot of coffee and tea in secret. I remember some church members back-stabbing their fellow church members when they get together in their clicks. If you find this going on in your church, suggest that they lay off the coffee and tea!
- Showing face and head are immodest: I was shown that the people of God should not imitate the fashions of the world... I was pointed back to God's ancient people, and was led to compare their apparel with the mode of dress in these last days. What a difference! What a change! Then the women were not so bold as now. WHEN THEY WENT IN PUBLIC, THEY COVERED THEIR FACES WITH A VAIL. In these last days, fashions are shameful and immodest...The small bonnets, exposing the face and head, show a lack of modesty...The inhabitants are growing more and more corrupt... —Testimonies, Volume 1, pp. 188; 189. EGW would have supported the Muslim women wearing veils and burquas. EGW sure did not have her faced covered, so she was a bare faced hypocrite. See her pictures that she claimed were idols.
- Angels need a gold card to get in and out of heaven: There is perfect order and harmony in the Holy City. All the angels that are commissioned to visit the earth hold a golden card, which they present to the angels at the gates of the city as they pass in and out. —Early Writings (1882), page 39. (Do angels really need a gold ID card to get in and out of heaven? Can evil angels deceive the loyal angels to get into heaven? Why did God withhold this important piece of information from Christians for over 2000 years?)
- Women should not allow wet-nurses to suckle their babies or the babies will take on the temper and temperament of the nurse. A stranger performs the duties of the mother and gives from her breast the food to sustain life. Nor is this all. She also imparts her temper and her temperament to the nursing child. The child's life is linked to hers. If the hireling is a coarse type of woman, passionate, and unreasonable; if she is not careful in her morals, the nursling will be, in all probability, of the same, or a similar type. The same coarse quality of blood, coursing in the veins of the hireling nurse, is in that of the child. —The Health Reformer, September 1, 1871, paragraph 7. Ellen claims that if the wet nurse is a course woman with low morals the baby will have the same nature. Really? This means when the milk is digested by the baby and turned into blood, the brain will recognize that the milk came from a woman of low morals and pass that nature to the baby. Let us ask this question, if the milk the baby drinks comes from a cow, does the baby have the morals and nature of a cow? Please be concerned if the baby starts mooing. The low morals that babies have are not from the food they eat, but being born with a carnal nature. A former SDA lady wrote me that her mother is a real EGW fanatic and nothing that she says to her mother will move her from believing in EGW. This lady drank a glass of milk and then mooed in her mother's ear which her mother did not find funny. At another time she whispered in her mother's ear that she had a need to go outdoors and eat some alfalfa and hay. Even humor sometimes does not help a person to admit they have been deceived.
- What is the most worthless job angels have on planet Earth? Watching over the dust of Wm. Miller says EGW in one of her "I saw" moments! God suffered him to come under the power of Satan, and death to have dominion over him. He hid him in the grave, away from those who were constantly drawing him from God. Moses erred just as he was about to enter the promised land. So also, I saw that Wm. Miller erred as he was soon to enter the heavenly Canaan, in suffering his influence to go against the truth. Others led him to this. Others must account for it. But angels watch the precious dust of this servant of God, and he will come forth at the sound of the last trump. —Spiritual Gifts, Volume 1 (1858), page 168. William Miller’s membership in the Masonic Order has been a matter of public record, in print, since 1853. Miller died in 1849. In 1858, nine years after Miller's death EGW had one of her visions from God where she pronounced him coming forth in the resurrection. This is important because EGW made it clear those that belonged to the Masons would lose their souls. Why did God tell Ellen that Miller would be saved and then give her another vision that those belonging to Masons would lose their souls? Any rational person can see EGW never received visions from God. In 1853, Sylvester Bliss noted in hisMemoirs of William Miller, pp. 21, 22: “It was here [Poultney, Vermont] that Miller became a member of the Masonic fraternity, in which his perseverance, if nothing else, was manifested; for he advanced to the highest degree which the lodges in the country, or in any in that region, could confer.” There is no doubt that Mrs. White took every opportunity to degrade men who became Freemasons. Read the words she wrote regarding Brother Faulkhead: “The Lord also revealed to me Brother Faulkhead's connection with the FreeMasons, and I plainly stated that unless he severed every tie that bound him to these associations he would lose his soul. —Selected Messages, Volume 3 p. 85: 1980 Ed. Now which is it, will Wm. Miller will be resurrected with the saints or he will lose his soul because he was a Mason? Where does the Bible tells us that angels watch over the dead or the dust of the dead?
- In heaven there will be no color line; for all will be as white as Christ himself. I received an e-mail that brought this to my attention as follows: Thus, Adventists not only have to observe the Jewish food, sabbath, and tithing laws, but they must actually look like Jews as well in order to enter heaven and have the same skin color as Jesus had. How do I tell my sweet little, five-year old, African-American granddaughter that the color of her skin is unacceptable for heaven? EGW: "The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance." You are the children of God. He has adopted you, and He desires you to form characters here that will give you entrance into the heavenly family. Remembering this, you will be able to bear the trials which you meet here. In heaven there will be no color line; for all will be as white as Christ himself. Let us thank God that we can be members of the royal family. —The Gospel Herald, March 1, 1901, paragraph 20, Article Title: Trust in God. Is God really going to change the color of your skin if you are not white? I f you are not white what is your reaction to this? Do you really accept EGW as a lesser light leading you to the greater light and that she is another source of truth?
D
From Facts Adventists Won�t Tell
Posted as source material for those who think I told a bunch of lies about Ellen G WHite, the false prophetess of the Seventh Day Adventist organization. Keep in mind There is a limit to the length of a post. I suggest you click on the link above and read further into the bizarre tales and false prophecies this woman told.
What facts won't they tell you?
They won't tell you that they consider themselves to be the only, true, remnant Church. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, whom they revere and believe without question has told them that
"...Satan has taken full possession of the Churches". (Spiritual Gifts V.l,p.189-90) They also believe our prayers are an "abomination" to God. (Spiritual Gifts, V1 p.190).
That is what they think of you and your church, even if they won't say it out loud in public, or to your face.
They revere their founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, and made this statement in their "Ministry" Magazine of Oct. 1981 and have never retracted it:
"We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White's writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other".
They won't tell you too much about Ellen G. White at their public seminars, but their goal is to bring the person attending to the point of conversion and baptism.
Their 2000 baptismal certificate poses questions to which the candidate must answer "yes". Question 8 says,
"Do you accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church".
If the candidate says "yes" and is baptised, they soon learn that the "gift of prophecy" is Ellen G. White's writings. Point 13 has them accepting that the SDA Church is the remnant church of Bible Prophecy. They have been baptized into an exclusive group, but they don't know how exclusive it is, yet!
No doubt they will be urged to avail themselves of a "Clear Word Bible". This publication of theirs has inserted the words and doctrines of Ellen G. White right into the Bible text, insuring that the person studying it will have the mind of Ellen G. White.
Slowly, but surely, the new SDA will come to believe these extra-biblical doctrines that set the SDA church apart from Evangelical Christianity.
[HR][/HR][SIZE=+1]Doctrine on Christ[/SIZE]
Seventh-day Adventists, in the early days, denied the Trinity, but now they accept it. However, they have "leftovers" from this heresy. Ellen G. White wrote in Patriarchs and Prophets, page 761, "...He (Jesus) was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord's Host, Michael the Archangel".
[HR][/HR]Doctrines on Salvation
If you receive Christ as your Saviour through the SDA's, only your past sins, up to that moment are forgiven. Now you must get to work to earn your salvation. Ellen G. White said in the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald of 10-26-1897 this statement,
"...The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God".
Of course, it is the fourth commandment that is stressed, since Ellen saw this one glowing in one of her visions. Salvation now becomes dependent on which day of the week one observes.
Modern Adventists keep sundown Friday to sundown Saturday as the Sabbath, but earlier in their history they kept 6 p.m. Friday to 6 p.m. Saturday.
The rest of us "Sunday keepers" are doomed to receive the "mark of the beast" and lose our eternal life. (The Spirit of Prophecy V. 4, p. 505). They sure don't say this at their seminars!
Christ exclaimed "It is finished" when He died for our sins, but it is not finished in Seventh-day Adventism! EGW wrote in "The Faith I Live By" p. 211,
"At the time appointed for the judgement - the close of the 2300 days, in 1844began the work of investigation and blotting out of sins...both the living and the dead are to be judged "out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works". (Rev. 20:12".
People are never told at Seminars that if they become SDA's and are baptized, a recording angel is watching their every move to determine their salvation eventually. EGW issues this warning in The Faith I Live By, page 210,
"Every man's work passes in review before God...Opposite each name in the books of heaven is entered, with terrible exactness, every wrong word, every selfish act, every unfulfilled duty, and every secret sin, with every artful dissembling. Heaven-sent warnings or reproofs neglected, wasted moments, unimproved opportunities, the influence exerted for good or for evil, with its far-reaching results, all are chronicled by the recording angel."
It's not much fun being an Adventist and being watched constantly by that recording angel with his "terrible exactness". Prepare to become very uptight.
Christians will say, "sure we slip sometimes into unintentional sin, but we have a mediator in Christ Jesus". No, you don't in Seventh-day Adventism. Be prepared for this SDA doctrine by Ellen G. White:
"...Those who are living on the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil....". (The Great Controversy p. 425).
Obviously they have chosen EGW's doctrine over that stated in the Bible in Hebrews 7:25,
"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them".
Where would we all be without Christ as our mediator, EVER making intercession for us?
Christ bore our own sins in his body on the tree according to the Bible. 1 Peter 2:24 says, "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree...". Become a SDA, and it will be Satan who will eventually bear your sins! Ellen G. White wrote,
"...so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin...so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate...".(The Great Controversy p. 485).
You won't hear this one at the Seminars! They keep their radical teachings for later.
[HR][/HR][SIZE=+1]False Prophecies[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]You Won't be Told About[/SIZE]
Seventh-day Adventism grew despite endorsing a false date for Christ's return. What a dubious beginning!
Ellen G. White endorsed a false prophecy by William Miller that Christ would return, first in 1843 and then 1844. Miller repented when Christ didn't show up on his date but Ellen didn't want to be viewed as a false prophetess for endorsing him through her visions. The idea was concocted by one of her followers that the date was right, but the event was wrong. Ellen eagerly accepted this "out", and this explanation was offered to explain away the false prophecy:
Christ didn't come visibly to earth, but He, invisibly, in heaven, changed compartments from the Holy to the Most Holy in 1844 and began the work of "investigative judgment" that we have discussed previously.
This false date and its failure triggered other heresies on the atonement of Christ which continues to this day. Honest-hearted SDA's who have pointed out the error of the 1844 investigative judgment have been shown the door by their Conference. You sure won't be told the true history behind the 1844 doctrine by SDA's!
Embarrassing false prophecies by EGW have been, altered, covered up, and locked up by the SDA's. You won't be told about them, but here are a couple.
One false prophecy done in the name of the Lord marks that one as a false prophet (See Deut. chapter 18).
Ellen G. White said people alive in 1856 would be translated at the 2nd coming of Jesus. (Testimonies, V1, p 131,132).
She said in Testimonies for the Church, Volume 1, p. 259, that the United States would be "...humbled into the dust" by England during the Civil War.
No wonder Jesus told us to "Beware of the false prophets". Time is their enemy. These false prophecies will never be mentioned by the SDA's.
[HR][/HR][SIZE=+1]Consulting the Dead[/SIZE]
You really won't be told about Ellen G. White's engaging in necromancy, communication with the dead, expressly forbidden by God in Deuteronomy 18:10-12
"There shall not be found among you anyone...who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord..."
This particular necromancy occurred after the death of her husband James, whom she called "Father". She recounts the experience in a letter to her son published in "The Retirement Years" p. 161 - 163.
She begins her letter by stating that she was seeking God regarding her future,
"A few days since I was pleading with the Lord for light in regard to my duty"...
It is evident she believed this dream was in response to her prayers to God. James (whom she called "Father") appeared beside her as she was in a carriage. She reported he looked "very pale, but calm and composed". (After all, he was dead!)
She says,
"...I saw you die; I saw you buried. Has the Lord pitied me and let you come back...?"
We are not to have conversations with the dead, but Ellen and James converse back and forth about church matters and their health. At one point James foretells the future for Ellen,
"...Now, Ellen, calls will be made as they have been, desiring you to attend important meetings...".
James, her dead husband, goes on to tell her she must avoid taxing her strength by going to meetings and retire and write instead. He tells her "...Make this your first business".
Ellen now makes an agreement with her dead husband to stay in touch,
"Well, said I, James you are always to stay with me now and we will work together".
This would involve further communication with the dead. Ellen recounts that she then awoke and took the whole matter as being from the Lord in these words,
"...I feel no duty to go to Battle Creek...I have no duty to stand in General Conference. THE LORD FORBIDS ME. That is enough."
Well, that is enough to conclude, not only the letter, but the fact that Ellen consulted the dead and took it all as coming from the Lord. She indicated she wanted to continue this practice.
Can we trust this dream? No, of course not. How then are we to trust her other 200 or so "inspired by God" dreams and visions that occurred over her lifetime? We can't, if we judge matters by the word of God. You won't be told EGW practised necromancy at the Seminars!
Posted as source material for those who think I told a bunch of lies about Ellen G WHite, the false prophetess of the Seventh Day Adventist organization. Keep in mind There is a limit to the length of a post. I suggest you click on the link above and read further into the bizarre tales and false prophecies this woman told.
What facts won't they tell you?
They won't tell you that they consider themselves to be the only, true, remnant Church. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, whom they revere and believe without question has told them that
"...Satan has taken full possession of the Churches". (Spiritual Gifts V.l,p.189-90) They also believe our prayers are an "abomination" to God. (Spiritual Gifts, V1 p.190).
That is what they think of you and your church, even if they won't say it out loud in public, or to your face.
They revere their founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, and made this statement in their "Ministry" Magazine of Oct. 1981 and have never retracted it:
"We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White's writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other".
They won't tell you too much about Ellen G. White at their public seminars, but their goal is to bring the person attending to the point of conversion and baptism.
Their 2000 baptismal certificate poses questions to which the candidate must answer "yes". Question 8 says,
"Do you accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church".
If the candidate says "yes" and is baptised, they soon learn that the "gift of prophecy" is Ellen G. White's writings. Point 13 has them accepting that the SDA Church is the remnant church of Bible Prophecy. They have been baptized into an exclusive group, but they don't know how exclusive it is, yet!
No doubt they will be urged to avail themselves of a "Clear Word Bible". This publication of theirs has inserted the words and doctrines of Ellen G. White right into the Bible text, insuring that the person studying it will have the mind of Ellen G. White.
Slowly, but surely, the new SDA will come to believe these extra-biblical doctrines that set the SDA church apart from Evangelical Christianity.
[HR][/HR][SIZE=+1]Doctrine on Christ[/SIZE]
Seventh-day Adventists, in the early days, denied the Trinity, but now they accept it. However, they have "leftovers" from this heresy. Ellen G. White wrote in Patriarchs and Prophets, page 761, "...He (Jesus) was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord's Host, Michael the Archangel".
[HR][/HR]Doctrines on Salvation
If you receive Christ as your Saviour through the SDA's, only your past sins, up to that moment are forgiven. Now you must get to work to earn your salvation. Ellen G. White said in the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald of 10-26-1897 this statement,
"...The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God".
Of course, it is the fourth commandment that is stressed, since Ellen saw this one glowing in one of her visions. Salvation now becomes dependent on which day of the week one observes.
Modern Adventists keep sundown Friday to sundown Saturday as the Sabbath, but earlier in their history they kept 6 p.m. Friday to 6 p.m. Saturday.
The rest of us "Sunday keepers" are doomed to receive the "mark of the beast" and lose our eternal life. (The Spirit of Prophecy V. 4, p. 505). They sure don't say this at their seminars!
Christ exclaimed "It is finished" when He died for our sins, but it is not finished in Seventh-day Adventism! EGW wrote in "The Faith I Live By" p. 211,
"At the time appointed for the judgement - the close of the 2300 days, in 1844began the work of investigation and blotting out of sins...both the living and the dead are to be judged "out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works". (Rev. 20:12".
People are never told at Seminars that if they become SDA's and are baptized, a recording angel is watching their every move to determine their salvation eventually. EGW issues this warning in The Faith I Live By, page 210,
"Every man's work passes in review before God...Opposite each name in the books of heaven is entered, with terrible exactness, every wrong word, every selfish act, every unfulfilled duty, and every secret sin, with every artful dissembling. Heaven-sent warnings or reproofs neglected, wasted moments, unimproved opportunities, the influence exerted for good or for evil, with its far-reaching results, all are chronicled by the recording angel."
It's not much fun being an Adventist and being watched constantly by that recording angel with his "terrible exactness". Prepare to become very uptight.
Christians will say, "sure we slip sometimes into unintentional sin, but we have a mediator in Christ Jesus". No, you don't in Seventh-day Adventism. Be prepared for this SDA doctrine by Ellen G. White:
"...Those who are living on the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil....". (The Great Controversy p. 425).
Obviously they have chosen EGW's doctrine over that stated in the Bible in Hebrews 7:25,
"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them".
Where would we all be without Christ as our mediator, EVER making intercession for us?
Christ bore our own sins in his body on the tree according to the Bible. 1 Peter 2:24 says, "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree...". Become a SDA, and it will be Satan who will eventually bear your sins! Ellen G. White wrote,
"...so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin...so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate...".(The Great Controversy p. 485).
You won't hear this one at the Seminars! They keep their radical teachings for later.
[HR][/HR][SIZE=+1]False Prophecies[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]You Won't be Told About[/SIZE]
Seventh-day Adventism grew despite endorsing a false date for Christ's return. What a dubious beginning!
Ellen G. White endorsed a false prophecy by William Miller that Christ would return, first in 1843 and then 1844. Miller repented when Christ didn't show up on his date but Ellen didn't want to be viewed as a false prophetess for endorsing him through her visions. The idea was concocted by one of her followers that the date was right, but the event was wrong. Ellen eagerly accepted this "out", and this explanation was offered to explain away the false prophecy:
Christ didn't come visibly to earth, but He, invisibly, in heaven, changed compartments from the Holy to the Most Holy in 1844 and began the work of "investigative judgment" that we have discussed previously.
This false date and its failure triggered other heresies on the atonement of Christ which continues to this day. Honest-hearted SDA's who have pointed out the error of the 1844 investigative judgment have been shown the door by their Conference. You sure won't be told the true history behind the 1844 doctrine by SDA's!
Embarrassing false prophecies by EGW have been, altered, covered up, and locked up by the SDA's. You won't be told about them, but here are a couple.
One false prophecy done in the name of the Lord marks that one as a false prophet (See Deut. chapter 18).
Ellen G. White said people alive in 1856 would be translated at the 2nd coming of Jesus. (Testimonies, V1, p 131,132).
She said in Testimonies for the Church, Volume 1, p. 259, that the United States would be "...humbled into the dust" by England during the Civil War.
No wonder Jesus told us to "Beware of the false prophets". Time is their enemy. These false prophecies will never be mentioned by the SDA's.
[HR][/HR][SIZE=+1]Consulting the Dead[/SIZE]
You really won't be told about Ellen G. White's engaging in necromancy, communication with the dead, expressly forbidden by God in Deuteronomy 18:10-12
"There shall not be found among you anyone...who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord..."
This particular necromancy occurred after the death of her husband James, whom she called "Father". She recounts the experience in a letter to her son published in "The Retirement Years" p. 161 - 163.
She begins her letter by stating that she was seeking God regarding her future,
"A few days since I was pleading with the Lord for light in regard to my duty"...
It is evident she believed this dream was in response to her prayers to God. James (whom she called "Father") appeared beside her as she was in a carriage. She reported he looked "very pale, but calm and composed". (After all, he was dead!)
She says,
"...I saw you die; I saw you buried. Has the Lord pitied me and let you come back...?"
We are not to have conversations with the dead, but Ellen and James converse back and forth about church matters and their health. At one point James foretells the future for Ellen,
"...Now, Ellen, calls will be made as they have been, desiring you to attend important meetings...".
James, her dead husband, goes on to tell her she must avoid taxing her strength by going to meetings and retire and write instead. He tells her "...Make this your first business".
Ellen now makes an agreement with her dead husband to stay in touch,
"Well, said I, James you are always to stay with me now and we will work together".
This would involve further communication with the dead. Ellen recounts that she then awoke and took the whole matter as being from the Lord in these words,
"...I feel no duty to go to Battle Creek...I have no duty to stand in General Conference. THE LORD FORBIDS ME. That is enough."
Well, that is enough to conclude, not only the letter, but the fact that Ellen consulted the dead and took it all as coming from the Lord. She indicated she wanted to continue this practice.
Can we trust this dream? No, of course not. How then are we to trust her other 200 or so "inspired by God" dreams and visions that occurred over her lifetime? We can't, if we judge matters by the word of God. You won't be told EGW practised necromancy at the Seminars!
D
If danschance tells us what church he goes to we can easy find plenty of bad things written about the church he goes to.
I was born the son of a Lutheran Pastor and as such I have attended many Lutheran churches. I currently do not attend a formal church but fellowship in a house church and online with my brothers and sisters in Christ.
S
Well Danschance, I have an awful time believing all this. I will look into it. But the fact remains, the arguments presented here have nothing to do with Ellen White. My beliefs are based on scriptures. Ellen White apparently believed alike regarding the state of the dead and hellfire. That doesn't discredit or give credit to my belief unless it's scripturally based. Though I'm personally not a 7th day Adventist, I've known quite a few for much of my life, and I've never ever heard of these statements associated with Ellen White. In addition, most people seem to think Adventists think of Ellen White like Mormons to Joseph Smith, and that simply is not true. The ones I've known think of her as a Bible Commentary writer. That's it and that's all. Maybe the older school Adventists weren't that way, but that's the way it is now, at least when it comes to the Adventists I know.
But once again, this argument is not about Ellen White. It should be based entirely on scripture. I still stand with what I said. If you have to attack a person that believes in what you're arguing about over things that have nothing to do with the argument, you don't have an argument worth addressing.
But once again, this argument is not about Ellen White. It should be based entirely on scripture. I still stand with what I said. If you have to attack a person that believes in what you're arguing about over things that have nothing to do with the argument, you don't have an argument worth addressing.
D
I am sure it is hard to understand as the SDA organization has done a fair job of white washing their history. The same is true for Mormons and Jehovah's witness'. In those organizations they are told that information that is against them is pure lies and distortions. Unfortunately for them, it is the truth.
R
like i said...the 'altar' that is repeatedly referenced in revelation is evidently an altar of incense...not an altar of burnt offering...
unlike the altar of burnt offering...there is no blood poured out at the base of the altar of incense...so the symbolism intended is apparently not the symbolism you are suggesting...
the altar of incense signifies prayer...this is probably the reason why the souls of the martyrs were shown underneath the altar of incense...because when john sees them they are addressing God and crying out for justice...in other words they are praying...
unlike the altar of burnt offering...there is no blood poured out at the base of the altar of incense...so the symbolism intended is apparently not the symbolism you are suggesting...
the altar of incense signifies prayer...this is probably the reason why the souls of the martyrs were shown underneath the altar of incense...because when john sees them they are addressing God and crying out for justice...in other words they are praying...
You don't get to make the rules about the kind of statement God must make in revealing is truth.
His truth is shown in many ways, by events as well as by the answers to questions about Scriptural statements.
1) First, we see an immortal spirit (pneuma, not breath, which is pnoe) returning to its body in Lk 8:55.
2) Then there is what Jesus said:
Mt 22:31-32 - "In the account of the bush (Lk 20:37-38), have you not read what God said to you, 'I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Two hundred years after the death of the patriarchs, God declared he is (present tense) the God of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Ex 3:6). Since he is (present tense) the God only of the living, and not the God of the dead, what part of the patriarchs are still living?
Lk 16:22-26 - "The time came when the beggar man died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. . .he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to. . .cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
But Abraham replied. . .'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Jesus presented the rich man in hell, with he and Abraham conversing with one another after their deaths.
If their bodies were dead, then what parts of them were conversing together?
Lk 8:51 - "If anyone keeps my word,he will never see death."
Well, all those to whom Jesus spoke those words are now dead.
And God told Adam that the day he ate of the fruit he would die, but he lived for centuries.
So what died, and what did not die?
Jn 5:24 - "Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal llife. . .he has crossed over from death to life."
So what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they cross over?
3) We find the same thing in the epistles:
1Jn 3:14 - "We know we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. . .no murderer has eternal life in him."
Again, what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they pass?
Col 2:13 - "When you were dead in your sins. . .God made you alive with Christ."
Eph 2:1,3 - "You were dead in your transgressions and sins. . .by nature objects of wrath."
Again, what was dead? It wasn't their bodies.
Php 1:23 - "I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ which is better by far, but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."
The NT plainly states that when believers die, they are with Christ, apart from their body.
So what part of them is with Christ, apart from their body?
Heb 12:18, 22-24 - "You have not come to a mountain that is burning with fire. . .You have come to Mount Zion. . .You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant. . ."
The NT reveals that the spirits of former righteous believers (e.g., Abel and Noah, vv.4, 7) are immortal
and are waiting for the resurrection.
Correct handling of the ten Scriptures above shows that the human spirit is immortal.
His truth is shown in many ways, by events as well as by the answers to questions about Scriptural statements.
1) First, we see an immortal spirit (pneuma, not breath, which is pnoe) returning to its body in Lk 8:55.
2) Then there is what Jesus said:
Mt 22:31-32 - "In the account of the bush (Lk 20:37-38), have you not read what God said to you, 'I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Two hundred years after the death of the patriarchs, God declared he is (present tense) the God of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Ex 3:6). Since he is (present tense) the God only of the living, and not the God of the dead, what part of the patriarchs are still living?
Lk 16:22-26 - "The time came when the beggar man died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. . .he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to. . .cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
But Abraham replied. . .'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Jesus presented the rich man in hell, with he and Abraham conversing with one another after their deaths.
If their bodies were dead, then what parts of them were conversing together?
Lk 8:51 - "If anyone keeps my word,he will never see death."
Well, all those to whom Jesus spoke those words are now dead.
And God told Adam that the day he ate of the fruit he would die, but he lived for centuries.
So what died, and what did not die?
Jn 5:24 - "Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal llife. . .he has crossed over from death to life."
So what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they cross over?
3) We find the same thing in the epistles:
1Jn 3:14 - "We know we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. . .no murderer has eternal life in him."
Again, what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they pass?
Col 2:13 - "When you were dead in your sins. . .God made you alive with Christ."
Eph 2:1,3 - "You were dead in your transgressions and sins. . .by nature objects of wrath."
Again, what was dead? It wasn't their bodies.
Php 1:23 - "I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ which is better by far, but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."
The NT plainly states that when believers die, they are with Christ, apart from their body.
So what part of them is with Christ, apart from their body?
Heb 12:18, 22-24 - "You have not come to a mountain that is burning with fire. . .You have come to Mount Zion. . .You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant. . ."
The NT reveals that the spirits of former righteous believers (e.g., Abel and Noah, vv.4, 7) are immortal
and are waiting for the resurrection.
Correct handling of the ten Scriptures above shows that the human spirit is immortal.