Who Justifieth the Ungodly

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,729
127
63
By the Righteousness of One came Justification of Life !


Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

That the Obedience of Christ alone, His Righteousness here consist in both His Active and Passive Obedience, and for all whom He represented when He died, the sentence of Justification was passed, Justification of Life. It came upon them, apart from their faith, their repentance, or anything they did.

The word Justification is the greek word dikaiósis:


acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

Absolution means:

a freeing from blame or guilt; release from consequences, obligations, or penalties.

Just as by adam's one act or offence, it resulted in condemnation of all men he represented, that was apart from their own act of disobedience personally, so it is with Christ's One act of Righteousness results in Justification of Life for all He represented apart from their own acts of obedience.

This scripture teaches Justification for all whom Christ died before their obedience of Faith.
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,738
1,360
113
So according to Gal 3:13 how were they redeemed from the curse of the law ?

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Your question has been answered.

That you disagree with the answer does not equal your question not having been answered.


The question at this point is:

Do you, brightfame52, understand Post #242 and Post #233 and Post #227 and Post #220 and Post #212 and Post #205 and Post #198 and Post #192 and Post #189 ?
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,738
1,360
113
Ignoring truth is a poor debate tatic, which you do well.
you so silly!!! you claim "ignoring the truth is a poor debate tatic" ... and then you ignore what is plainly stated in Scripture!!!


4:20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;


21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


mankind is justified by faith


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,738
1,360
113
Romans 6:7 is within the context. Dont ignore it.
:rolleyes: pathetic ... another of your poor debate tactics due to your inability to refute the central point

read Romans 6:7 within its context ...

Romans 6:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


vs 6 - the "old man" is who the born again one was in Adam. Once born again, the believer is a "new creation" (2 Cor 5:17) ... also known as the "new man" (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10).

vs 7 - the believer is freed from sin because the "old man" is dead.

vs 8 - because the "old man" is dead, we believe the "new man" is alive with Christ and we shall live with Him forever.

vs 9-10 - we know Christ was raised from the dead and death has no dominion over Him; Christ is alive!!! :cool:

vs 11 - we are to reckon [Greek logizomai] ourselves (the "old man") dead to sin ... and the "new man" alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.



 
Mar 23, 2016
4,738
1,360
113
This scripture teaches Justification for all whom Christ died before their obedience of Faith.
nope ... if, as you claim, the verse did teach "Justification ... before obedience of faith", then Rom 5:18 contradicts what is written in Rom 5:1:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Scripture does not contradict Scripture.

your dogma, however, contradicts Scripture.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,729
127
63
Your question has been answered.

That you disagree with the answer does not equal your question not having been answered.


The question at this point is:

Do you, brightfame52, understand Post #242 and Post #233 and Post #227 and Post #220 and Post #212 and Post #205 and Post #198 and Post #192 and Post #189 ?
So what is the answer ? Its in the verse. Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Now according to the verse, How were the us redeemed from the curse of the law ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,729
127
63
you so silly!!! you claim "ignoring the truth is a poor debate tatic" ... and then you ignore what is plainly stated in Scripture!!!


4:20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


mankind is justified by faith


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
Why are you ignoring the Truth ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,729
127
63
:rolleyes: pathetic ... another of your poor debate tactics due to your inability to refute the central point

read Romans 6:7 within its context ...

Romans 6:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


vs 6 - the "old man" is who the born again one was in Adam. Once born again, the believer is a "new creation" (2 Cor 5:17) ... also known as the "new man" (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10).

vs 7 - the believer is freed from sin because the "old man" is dead.

vs 8 - because the "old man" is dead, we believe the "new man" is alive with Christ and we shall live with Him forever.

vs 9-10 - we know Christ was raised from the dead and death has no dominion over Him; Christ is alive!!! :cool:

vs 11 - we are to reckon [Greek logizomai] ourselves (the "old man") dead to sin ... and the "new man" alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Isnt Rom 6:7 found within a context of scripture ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,729
127
63
nope ... if, as you claim, the verse did teach "Justification ... before obedience of faith", then Rom 5:18 contradicts what is written in Rom 5:1:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Scripture does not contradict Scripture.

your dogma, however, contradicts Scripture.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
Yes it does teach that.
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,738
1,360
113
So what is the answer ? Its in the verse. Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Now according to the verse, How were the us redeemed from the curse of the law ?
click on any of the links. the question has been answered.

that you do not agree with the answer does not equal the question not having been answered.


again, the question now at issue is: do you understand what has been submitted in Post #242 and Post #233 and Post #227 and Post #220 and Post #212 and Post #205 and Post #198 and Post #192 and Post #189 ?
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,738
1,360
113
Why are you ignoring the Truth ?
ha-ha!!! the one ignoring truth is the one who accuses others of ignoring truth when he is unable to refute the central point.

instead of accusing me of "ignoring truth", provide Scripture which indicates that what I submitted is inaccurate. Thank you.

Here is the discussion:

In Post 253, brightfame52 said:


Hence, He in Divine Justice purposed to condemn them in Christ, He Justified them. This was before they believed.


In response, reneweddaybyday said Post 258:


nope ...
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!



 
Mar 23, 2016
4,738
1,360
113
Yes it does teach that.
glad we're in agreement that mankind is justified by faith as stated in Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


maybe you've decided to take my advice and READ YOUR BIBLE!!! :cool:



 
Jan 15, 2022
271
19
18
Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..Eph 2:3

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in Rom 4:5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in

tresspasses and sins, while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace..Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condtion we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..
Yes, the rational mind of man cannot accept the biblical truth cant they:
God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. Eph 2:5
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,729
127
63
Justifieth the Ungodly !

Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is a truth that the natural mind of man cannot receive as Per 1 Cor 2:14, that those Christ died for are by His Blood, Justified while being ungodly, as their Father Abraham was.

Yes, as was Abraham, they while in a state of nature, and being ungodly, and being enemies in their minds, they are also at the same time in a state of Justification.

Yes being Justified solely by His Grace by the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus their Surety Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

They are Justified by Grace while they are in sin and corruption; this is because even then Christ has been made unto them by God 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

30 But it is from Him that you have your life in Christ Jesus, Whom God made our Wisdom from God, [revealed to us a knowledge of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].


That Redemption spoken of in Rom 3:24 that is the basis of Justification by Grace. And that Righteousness that also Justifies them.

For God imputes Righteousness on all for whom Christ was made sin for 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That word made here is the same verb Paul uses in 1 Cor 1:30 the word gínomai So He was made unto them Righteousness even while they are in a ungodly state.

This establishes the fact of the truth that those He died for or was made sin for are Justified or Righteous before Faith or believing by them.

For God to be Just He could only Justify them that are ungodly in themselves as He views them Righteous in and by Christ because of Ex 23:7

Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Hence, His Justification of the Ungodly is based upon Imputed Righteousness not their own. 121
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,729
127
63
click on any of the links. the question has been answered.

that you do not agree with the answer does not equal the question not having been answered.


again, the question now at issue is: do you understand what has been submitted in Post #242 and Post #233 and Post #227 and Post #220 and Post #212 and Post #205 and Post #198 and Post #192 and Post #189 ?
So what is the answer ? Its in the verse. Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Now according to the verse, How were the us redeemed from the curse of the law ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,729
127
63
ha-ha!!! the one ignoring truth is the one who accuses others of ignoring truth when he is unable to refute the central point.

instead of accusing me of "ignoring truth", provide Scripture which indicates that what I submitted is inaccurate. Thank you.

Here is the discussion:

In Post 253, brightfame52 said:

Hence, He in Divine Justice purposed to condemn them in Christ, He Justified them. This was before they believed.


In response, reneweddaybyday said Post 258:

nope ...
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
I have taken time to explain the truth to you and you flat out deny it or ignore it.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
1,729
127
63
glad we're in agreement that mankind is justified by faith as stated in Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


maybe you've decided to take my advice and READ YOUR BIBLE!!! :cool:
I dont think you agree with me and the truth, lest you believe in Justification before God [for the elect], by the death of Christ before a person believes, and while they are ungodly enemies.
 
Mar 23, 2016
4,738
1,360
113
So what is the answer ? Its in the verse. Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Now according to the verse, How were the us redeemed from the curse of the law ?
answered multiple times ... move along ...