Why the king james?

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Agricola

Agricola

Senior Member
#581
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#581
Reading through the last few pages I am amazed to see how the argument has suddenly had to go back to Old Testament days and arguing how people were saved.

I am thinking, what is the purpose of this? We seem to have been derailed again down another meaningless track in order to prove that people can only get a 100% Salvation experience from just the King James.. Ridiculous. Actually many people come to follow Christ without reading anything in the Bible, its through personal testimony and miracles.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#582
Jun 30, 2015
25,594
13,857
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#582
John146 said:
What other choices are there other than the two I gave?
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You set the two up in opposition, when in fact they aren't in opposition. That's the falsity in your dichotomy. You misrepresent the facts, creating a supposed contrast of value.

John146 said:
Check 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Jesus is God's only begotten son. That word begotten is missing in most modern versions. You lose the doctrine of the begotten. That's important if one takes the Bible literally.
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You don't lose the doctrine of the 'begotten'. It's in other passages, in the phrase, "One and Only" (for example). This is a typical KJVO argument... that if a particular word is missing in a particular passage of a new translation, that translation is attempting to quash a doctrine. The answer is always to consider the whole counsel of Scripture.

John146 said:
James White is a professional Bible corrector... James should write his own bible version and be done with it: that is the only way he will be satisfied. It also would make him very happy if his made up bible version gained him boatloads of money and worldwide fame.
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Your insulting Dr. White only reveals your narrow-mindedness. I don't see any point in listening to you if you refuse to look at the evidence. Galileo's detractors had the same attitude which you are showing. If you were to read the book, you would learn many of the facts which I and others have been trying to share with you.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#583
Jan 13, 2016
17,153
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#583
No one here would argue with that.

Agricola said:
Reading through the last few pages I am amazed to see how the argument has suddenly had to go back to Old Testament days and arguing how people were saved.

I am thinking, what is the purpose of this? We seem to have been derailed again down another meaningless track in order to prove that people can only get a 100% Salvation experience from just the King James.. Ridiculous. Actually many people come to follow Christ without reading anything in the Bible, its through personal testimony and miracles.
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Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#584
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
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#584
John146 said:
The law of Moses required obedience(Leviticus 18:5, Ezekiel 20:11, Romans 10:5, Gal. 3:12). If a Jew broke a law and sinned, he then had to offer the proper animal sacrifice to atone for the sin. If he neglected the sacrifice or refused to offer it, he remained in a lost condition(Psalm 119:155). Since there was no new birth available until after Christ's glorification, all believers saved before then had nothing IN them to secure their salvation(John 7:39). Today, in the Church Age, many things happen INSIDE a believer, including regeneration(Titus 3:5), to secure a believers salvation regardless of works. Among other things believers today are "sealed" by the "Holy Spirit" "unto the day of redemption" (Ephesians 4:30) thus his destiny is certain.
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Um, try reading Galatians 3:8:

"And the scriptures, foreseeing that God would justify the gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying; 'In you all the nations shall be blessed.' "


Also, the Bible says even the Jews, to whom the Law was given, could not obey it. (Galatians 6:13)

The Bible also says the Law made nothing perfect. (God's standard for salvation is: "to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect" - Matthew 5:48)

We have to be as righteous as God if we want to saved - and that can only come through Christ.

Galatians 3:21 puts the final nail in your "Law Coffin" by saying: "For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the Law."

Meaning: Righteousness never came through obeying the Law.

To accept your reasoning, every OT saint would now be in hell.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#585
Jan 13, 2016
17,153
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#585
In Galatians 6, Paul is addressing those particular circumcised who were trying to influence the believers.

Budman said:
Um, try reading Galatians 3:8:

"And the scriptures, foreseeing that God would justify the gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying; 'In you all the nations shall be blessed.' "


Also, the Bible says even the Jews, to whom the Law was given, could not obey it. (Galatians 6:13)

The Bible also says the Law made nothing perfect. (God's standard for salvation is: "to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect" - Matthew 5:48)

We have to be as righteous as God if we want to saved - and that can only come through Christ.

Galatians 3:21 puts the final nail in your "Law Coffin" by saying: "For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the Law."

Meaning: Righteousness never came through obeying the Law.

To accept your reasoning, every OT saint would now be in hell.
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J

John146

Senior Member
#586
Jan 13, 2016
17,153
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#586
See post #577 for Scripture references.

Budman said:
Um, try reading Galatians 3:8:

"And the scriptures, foreseeing that God would justify the gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying; 'In you all the nations shall be blessed.' "


Also, the Bible says even the Jews, to whom the Law was given, could not obey it. (Galatians 6:13)

The Bible also says the Law made nothing perfect. (God's standard for salvation is: "to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect" - Matthew 5:48)

We have to be as righteous as God if we want to saved - and that can only come through Christ.

Galatians 3:21 puts the final nail in your "Law Coffin" by saying: "For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the Law."

Meaning: Righteousness never came through obeying the Law.

To accept your reasoning, every OT saint would now be in hell.
Click to expand...
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#587
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#587
You didn't actually answer my post.

If the Law could not be kept, how could anyone be saved by it?
 
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J

John146

Senior Member
#588
Jan 13, 2016
17,153
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#588
The law could be kept, but keeping the law still could not bring eternal salvation. The blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin, only the blood of Christ. I think both of us would agree on this.

Budman said:
You didn't actually answer my post.

If the Law could not be kept, how could anyone be saved by it?
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Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#589
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
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#589
John146 said:
The law could be kept
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Uh, no. Once again the Bible says even the Jews, to whom the Law was given, could not keep it. (Galatians 6:13)

And also again, the Bible says righteousness could never come from the Law, that no flesh could be justified by the Law. In fact, the Bible says the Law was a curse. (Galatians 3:13) And men were held "prisoner" by it. (Galatians 3:23)

How could one be justified through a curse?

It says that the Law was given only to make men conscience of their sin. (Romans 3:20)

We are justified by faith, and the Bible says the Law is not based on faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

Hebrews 7:18-19 says the Law was "weak" and "useless" for the Law "made nothing perfect."

So your whole argument is in error.
 
Agricola

Agricola

Senior Member
#590
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#590
It is ridiculous that discussion has to go to these lengths, if you are having to unravel things this far, then its clearly flawed. King James is not the final authority perfect Bible which the King James Only cult claim.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#591
Jan 13, 2016
17,153
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#591
Please read my posts, all of it. In the Galatians passage, it is talking about those at that time of the circumcision could not keep the law, not the OT saints. Here's just one of the examples I gave. Argue with the Bible if you want:

Luke 1:5-6, "There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

The righteousness of the law could not save the soul eternally, only the righteousness through Jesus Christ. They were justified to not go to hell when they die because they did what God had asked them. It was their justification for going to Abraham's bosom when they slept.


Budman said:
Uh, no. Once again the Bible says even the Jews, to whom the Law was given, could not keep it. (Galatians 6:13)

And also again, the Bible says righteousness could never come from the Law, that no flesh could be justified by the Law. In fact, the Bible says the Law was a curse. (Galatians 3:13) And men were held "prisoner" by it. (Galatians 3:23)

How could one be justified through a curse?

It says that the Law was given only to make men conscience of their sin. (Romans 3:20)

We are justified by faith, and the Bible says the Law is not based on faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

Hebrews 7:18-19 says the Law was "weak" and "useless" for the Law "made nothing perfect."

So your whole argument is in error.
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J

John146

Senior Member
#592
Jan 13, 2016
17,153
3,697
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#592
Agreed, let Scripture speak for itself. Oh wait, we don't have Scripture to rely on. No final authority, no conclusions. It's all relative.

Agricola said:
It is ridiculous that discussion has to go to these lengths, if you are having to unravel things this far, then its clearly flawed. King James is not the final authority perfect Bible which the King James Only cult claim.
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James47

James47

Room Moderator
Staff member
#593
Mar 6, 2015
20
73
13
#593
One thing i would like to point out stone me if you will, but among chiristian false teachers the kjv is the most common one used, it been used by more cults then any other recorded version, that to me raises alarms bells, im not saying it s a totally bad version rather it was good for its time and it is not he first english version either, but i find it hard to trust something written in 1611 whne we have discorvred so much since then, and once again its use for so much false teaching is a fact wether we like it or not anf like the message bible is a matter of concern, proceed with the stoning lol ye with out kvj cast the first stone lol
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#594
Jan 18, 2011
12,390
6,733
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#594
we have TONS of scripture to rely on. but, according to some people, the only source is written in middle English, 405 years old. nothing wrong with that source, but certainly not the only reliable one. modern English, or what ever language , just modern. all I am saying.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#595
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#595
Agricola said:
It is ridiculous that discussion has to go to these lengths, if you are having to unravel things this far, then its clearly flawed. King James is not the final authority perfect Bible which the King James Only cult claim.
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So the KJV is not God's perfect inerrant word... then where is it?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#596
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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#596
gb9 said:
we have TONS of scripture to rely on. but, according to some people, the only source is written in middle English, 405 years old. nothing wrong with that source, but certainly not the only reliable one. modern English, or what ever language , just modern. all I am saying.
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How do do you rely on tons of scripture that say different things?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#597
Jan 13, 2016
17,153
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#597
When these tons of Scripture differ, which do you rely on to be true?


gb9 said:
we have TONS of scripture to rely on. but, according to some people, the only source is written in middle English, 405 years old. nothing wrong with that source, but certainly not the only reliable one. modern English, or what ever language , just modern. all I am saying.
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KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#598
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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#598
The bible is the DNA of the Christian and I mean that literally. Just like with our physical bodies, we are born in the flesh by words. The DNA words define exactly who our physical person is.

The same is true with our spirit, the born again man. Words, DNA determines exactly who our spirtual man is. Every word matters! We're either born again of the incorruptible seed of the word of God or we're two fold the child of the devil... it depends on what seed built our spirit man.

Please consider this before you try to lead people to corruptbile seed.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#599
Jan 13, 2016
17,153
3,697
113
#599
Yep, even the serpent's words were "pretty close" to God's words, but close is not good enough.


KJV1611 said:
The bible is the DNA of the Christian and I mean that literally. Just like with our physical bodies, we are born in the flesh by words. The DNA words define exactly who our physical person is.

The same is true with our spirit, the born again man. Words, DNA determines exactly who our spirtual man is. Every word matters! We're either born again of the incorruptible seed of the word of God or we're two fold the child of the devil... it depends on what seed built our spirit man.

Please consider this before you try to lead people to corruptbile seed.
Click to expand...
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#600
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#600
John146 said:
Yep, even the serpent's words were "pretty close" to God's words, but close is not good enough.
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Yep, I think human and ape DNA is about 95% the same. Just a few changes in the words produces an ape instead of a man. Words matter... every one of them.
 
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