why would millennial kingdom not be literal?

[eternally-gratefull]

why were the apostles waiting for the Lord to return the kingdom to israel in acts 1:6?

Because they expected literal fulfilment of prophesy. And understood. The “suffering servant” who would come make amends for sins, and messiah who would rule with a rod of Iron were the same person. Only he had two I purposes. 1 To take sin, the other to be king.

 

[PennEd]

There WAS physical, literal fulfillment of the OT prophecies. There was just not yet fulfillment of ALL of the them, mainly the ones they wanted to see fulfilled.

Their mistake was not that they looked for Messiah to literally fulfill prophecy. Their mistake was that they could not see He would fulfill it in TWO comings.

I believe we are making the EXACT same mistake and that God will cause it to repeat and once again there will be two comings - one in secret to take the bride and the other when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, which means they would be resurrected at that time, because those who pierced Him are dead.

Jesus had to die. For prophecy to be fulfilled, and most importantly to atone for our sin.

However, Jesus held the Jews, and especially the Pharisees, accountable to know He is their Messiah and when He was to come.

The ONLY time Jesus allowed Himself to be praised and worshiped as the Messiah, was the exact day forecast by the prophet Daniel, during His triumphal entry.

HAD the Jews accepted Him as such, (thank God they didn't!) He would have reigned on Earth then. We know God's plan of redemption for not just the Jews but everyone was to be the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, so He had to die. But I think their fatal error was not recognizing Him for who He is, and because of that error He will come again.

Matthew 23:[FONT=&quot]37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing![/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”[g][/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dispensationalist don't follow their own literal interpretation as they claim. John sets the tone (context) for the book of Revelation:

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him (Rev. 1:7).

The literal interpretation here is that the Jews in collusion with the Roman Gov. actually and literally pierced and hung Jesus on the cross and they are the ones who will actually see Him coming with clouds. Revelation is about judgement upon earthly Israel and the birth of the spiritual kingdom, which I would call spiritual or true Israel. It may or may not give any indication of detailed future events relating our time or beyond, to say it does is simply speculation.

The dispensational camp will say that we all pierced Christ, which maybe true spiritually, because the sins of the humanity put Him there. It is certainly not true that all people were literally in agreement nor literally pierce His flesh.

The Millenium is about Christ reign on earth and He has been reigning from above since His 1st coming. And it is forever (Rev. 1:6).

Psalm 2New King James Version (NKJV)

The Messiah’s Triumph and Kingdom

2 Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”

4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”

7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’”

10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,[b] lest [c] He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.



Psalm 110New King James Version (NKJV)

Announcement of the Messiah’s Reign

A Psalm of David.

110 The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!

3 Your people shall be volunteers
In the day of Your power;
In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning,
You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

5 The Lord is at Your right hand;
He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies,
He shall execute the heads of many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He shall lift up the head.

Not sure of your reasoning. The passage could adequately say that those who Pearce’s him (Israel and even Rome) will witness his return. Meaning those two nations will still be in existence when he returns.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus had to die. For prophecy to be fulfilled, and most importantly to atone for our sin.

However, Jesus held the Jews, and especially the Pharisees, accountable to know He is their Messiah and when He was to come.

The ONLY time Jesus allowed Himself to be praised and worshiped as the Messiah, was the exact day forecast by the prophet Daniel, during His triumphal entry.

HAD the Jews accepted Him as such, (thank God they didn't!) He would have reigned on Earth then. We know God's plan of redemption for not just the Jews but everyone was to be the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, so He had to die. But I think their fatal error was not recognizing Him for who He is, and because of that error He will come again.

Matthew 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”[g]

There you go. More proof. Israel as a nation will see Jesus again, When? After they (as a nation) say, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

 

[trofimus]

did paul or anyone after Holy Spirit came refute that idea of a earthly kingdom for israel?

I would rather say they totally ignored this old Jewish idea and concentrated on spiritual reality and the real kingdom of Christ and Church.

They said there is no longer physical Jew and physical Gentile, both are one in Christ etc. There are no longer two plans, two futures. Believing Gentiles are the real Israel and will be kings over the Earth together with believing Jews.

Unbelieving Jews and unbelieving Gentiles will be thrown away, without any kingdom to inherit.

 

[Snoozy]

There you go. More proof. Israel as a nation will see Jesus again, When? After they (as a nation) say, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

this also proves that God isnt done with israel i would say.
Jesus says until u say not if u say.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this also proves that God isnt done with israel i would say.
Jesus says until u say not if u say.

Which brings the OT prophecies that they will repent and will recieve him after they reject him to light, And why the disciples asked him WHEN (not IF) he will restor the kingdom.

 

[Snoozy]

Which brings the OT prophecies that they will repent and will recieve him after they reject him to light, And why the disciples asked him WHEN (not IF) he will restor the kingdom.

amen brother we are in agreement. and notice Jesus doesnt rebuke the disciples for asking that in acts 1:6. He isnt denying its gonna happen but just says its not for u to know the times the Father has set.

 

[trofimus]

amen brother we are in agreement. and notice Jesus doesnt rebuke the disciples for asking that in acts 1:6. He isnt denying its gonna happen but just says its not for u to know the times the Father has set.

You must read the rest, too.

"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."
1 P 2:9

God revealed later who are the real Israel, the real nation, the real priesthood and real kings.

Jesus will make the kingdom for the real Israel, containing believing Jews and believing Gentiles. We are in a sense kings now already, but visibly when He will come for the second time (and this time is not for us to know).

 

[Snoozy]

You must read the rest, too.

"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."
1 P 2:9

God revealed later who are the real Israel, the real nation, the real priesthood and real kings.

yeah i know that verse and i affirm it. but that doesnt refute the earlier verses in anyway. and there isnt a contradiction in my opinion.

sounds to me like folks just dont like israel, they dont want them to have their kingdom prophecies fulfilled. and thats why the millenium is looked at as a jewish fable. even tho its in the new testament.

 

[Snoozy]

and one more thing: the whole purpose for the time of Jacob's trouble is that they are in unbelief and wickedness now. so they will be purified by the time of Jacob's trouble.

this is where its important to rightly divide the word of truth. christians are already made pure by the blood of Christ. so it dont make nno sense to have us go through the time of jacob's trouble.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yeah i know that verse and i affirm it. but that doesnt refute the earlier verses in anyway. and there isnt a contradiction in my opinion.

sounds to me like folks just dont like israel, they dont want them to have their kingdom prophecies fulfilled. and thats why the millenium is looked at as a jewish fable. even tho its in the new testament.

Amen, We must take the whole bible. Not just the parts we want. Including 1 Peter 1, where Peter lets us know he is writing to the “Pilgrims of the dispersion” And although the letter has parts which apply to us, (we should heed them also) It was still written to his brothers and sisters in Israel who were dispersed

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and one more thing: the whole purpose for the time of Jacob's trouble is that they are in unbelief and wickedness now. so they will be purified by the time of Jacob's trouble.

this is where its important to rightly divide the word of truth. christians are already made pure by the blood of Christ. so it dont make nno sense to have us go through the time of jacob's trouble.

The time of Jacobs trouble is used to cause isreal to repent.

It just also happens to correlate with the great tribulation on the whole earth. Which causes Israel to repent. And ends with the return of Christ. “if I did not return all flesh would die. But for the sake of thge elect (living believers) I will come”

 

[valiant]

Which brings the OT prophecies that they will repent and will recieve him after they reject him to light, And why the disciples asked him WHEN (not IF) he will restor the kingdom.

The disciples had not then been baptised in the Spirit. They still believed the Messiah would bring in an earthly kingdom. Jesus did not correct them because the Holy Spirit would come and they would then know what they had to do and be led into heavenly truth.

 

[valiant]

The time of Jacobs trouble is used to cause isreal to repent.

It just also happens to correlate with the great tribulation on the whole earth. Which causes Israel to repent. And ends with the return of Christ. “if I did not return all flesh would die. But for the sake of thge elect (living believers) I will come”

And the time of Jacob's trouble lasted nearly 2000 years,

 

[valiant]

yeah i know that verse and i affirm it. but that doesnt refute the earlier verses in anyway. and there isnt a contradiction in my opinion.

sounds to me like folks just dont like israel, they dont want them to have their kingdom prophecies fulfilled. and thats why the millenium is looked at as a jewish fable. even tho its in the new testament.

God is not interested in Israel except as part of the church. It is the church, Christ's body, that is God's final goal.

Ii is significant that Christ never mentioned the millennium

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The disciples had not then been baptised in the Spirit. They still believed the Messiah would bring in an earthly kingdom. Jesus did not correct them because the Holy Spirit would come and they would then know what they had to do and be led into heavenly truth.

This makes no sense whatsoever. The Lord had died, the secret or mystery was not for our sake but for Gods sake, so Satan would not be warned away and would continue to do what he did. The mystery no longer had to be hidden, in fact Jesus spoke to the disciples the mystery as he opened their eyes and showed in the NT all things concerning him.

So no. Sorry, I can not buy this.

 

[Snoozy]

And the time of Jacob's trouble lasted nearly 2000 years,

why does it say trouble like never has been or shall be? doesnt seem to be talking about a 2000 year time span

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And the time of Jacob's trouble lasted nearly 2000 years,

Really? It has not even started yet. As the scripture says.

Jer 30: 7 [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the Lord of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]10 ‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Sorry, Nothing like this has been going on for 2 years let alone 2000..

 

[valiant]

why does it say trouble like never has been or shall be? doesnt seem to be talking about a 2000 year time span

why not??????????