why would millennial kingdom not be literal?
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1. It concerns ISREAL (not the church)
2. It is said to be a DAY which no other day has ever been like it, before or after
3. Isreal will be saved from it (the punishment will be on Non Isreal)
4. God will punish Israel for her sins, but as it said, he will also restor them when they repent, and PUNISH the nations who tereatyed her bad.
This is said in a few OT prophesies also. Not just one.
2. It is said to be a DAY which no other day has ever been like it, before or after
3. Isreal will be saved from it (the punishment will be on Non Isreal)
4. God will punish Israel for her sins, but as it said, he will also restor them when they repent, and PUNISH the nations who tereatyed her bad.
This is said in a few OT prophesies also. Not just one.
God: I told you SIX TIMES that it would be a thousand years! What part of a thousand years is so unclear to you that you can't understand it means: a really, really, really long time but not exactly a thousand years???! 
the only reasonable explanation for even trying to spiritualize it is post #55
there is just no reason in my opinion to not believe what it says.
E
It does not fit.
According to who? Thats your view. Sorry I disagree
Isreal was slaves in gentile nations befor4e Christ, While christ was here, And continued to be salves after they left. In 70 AD. They lost their land completely according to lev 26 for the first time in their history.
No fulfillment
How was it partially fulfilled
Isreal were slaves to Rome, and hard been scattered. Good did not restor them to their land, In fact, HE TOOK THEIR LAND FROM THEM.
According to who? Thats your view. Sorry I disagree
Isreal was slaves in gentile nations befor4e Christ, While christ was here, And continued to be salves after they left. In 70 AD. They lost their land completely according to lev 26 for the first time in their history.
No fulfillment
How was it partially fulfilled
Isreal were slaves to Rome, and hard been scattered. Good did not restor them to their land, In fact, HE TOOK THEIR LAND FROM THEM.
The bible makes it clear that Israel is the apple of God's eye and always will be. God is definitely interested in Israel and most prophesy concerns that nation and its people.
The millennium is mentioned many times in prophesy also regarding the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on earth ruling the nations.
The millennium is mentioned many times in prophesy also regarding the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on earth ruling the nations.
Not sure what you mean.
Believing Israel or unbelieving Israel that will end in hell with other unbelievers? Which Israel do you want the kingdom for?
If for believing ones in Christ, then we are both talking about Church, about His holy nation, about the real Israel. This Israel will inherit the eternal kingdom.
Believing Israel or unbelieving Israel that will end in hell with other unbelievers? Which Israel do you want the kingdom for?
If for believing ones in Christ, then we are both talking about Church, about His holy nation, about the real Israel. This Israel will inherit the eternal kingdom.
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Hi Ahwatukee thanks for the reply. The spiritual unseen understanding works the best for me.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
God did do not leave us a orphans with no instructions as to how we can seek after the approval of God. He has given us the proper prescriptions. And they do not include ignore the eternal spiritual understanding found in a parables in favor of walking by sight after the things seen, the temporal.
It is not a salvation issue but I think more of a way on how can we walk by faith the unseen and not by sight as that seen.
It is there between the temporal things of men seen and the eternal of God the unseen that the father of lies can get his foot in the door to sell his murderess lies.
By providing us parables we can see the gospel working in the affairs of men right from the beginning. According to Christ the Holy Spirit without a parable the word of God speaks not.
We begin looking for the gospel hid in parables the gospel thread is woven throughout the scriptures .
When you said thinking do not understand the book of Revelation. Did you mean the book that is signified using signs seen, the temporal to reveal the spiritual things not seen, and the eternal? It would seem like the correct hermeneutics when looking at parables.
Remember it cannot be over emphasized, again without parables Christ the Holy Spirit of God spoke not, purposely hiding the spiritual faith principle from natural man who naturally seek after that literally seen, to avoid the searching out the spiritual understanding through what I would call the three avenues of the serpent who has no form so that he can make his spiritual presence known..
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
According to my understanding I would think we can compare faith to faith, or the unseen spiritual to the unseen eternal as to its understanding... hid from natural man .
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God... 1Co 2:9
Christ purposely hid the meaning from parables to teach the apostles how to rightly divide the word of God, mixing faith (Christ’s) the unseen in what they did hear or see. Three times they insisted on walking by sight after that the things seen the literal . Christ rebuked them and informed them you know not what manner of spirit they were of.
Whenever they turned things upside down like that their eyes would go off of Christ and play the game “who is the greatest”. Again walking by sight looking to the literal .
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
There are literally lying spirits that have no form or substance as rudiments of this world. Lying spirits have no way to procreate. I am not stamping out the literal but defining that not seen, the eternal, by the things seen the temporal.
There is nothing in the scripture above that infers that the angel is not a literal angel that will descend to seize the dragon.
An angel is a messenger of God as a spirit not seen.
It’s what we wrestle against the literal unseen . When Satan the lead messenger a murderer from the beginning worked by literally appearing in a form of another creature as one that was formed after the rudiments of this world a (serpent) and puts his thoughts on its lips (you shall not surely die) the murder took place.
God did not want them to learn by experience (instant gratitude) what it mean to walk by faith the unseen. They died because they looked to the literal as that seen.
The key is the gospel that the gates of hell the bottom less pit or unending judgment will not prevail against as that not seen .It loosen the believer binding the father of lies.
Yes it represents the father of lies no literal chain could hold Him
Other than without parables Christ spoke not?
A thousand years are as a day .The word as denotes a parable is in view and the spiritual understand hid from natural man must be sought out if we are going to hear what the Spirit says to the churches .. The word thousand as it is used over and over represents a unknown
The term thousand is employed many, many times in Scripture, in varying figurative senses, to describe large numbers or vast periods of time. The expressions are also commonly used to symbolically describe great pictures of immeasurable vastness.
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?
We are to compare the spiritual understanding to the spiritual.God is not a man as us.
Distorting I believe would be to look to the literal as that seen the temporal and not that hid the spiritual understanding. In that way it would seem you are rebuking me for the right manner of Spirit "walking by faith" (2 Corinthians 4:18). The apostles were following your line of reasoning. Make Christ disappear (out of sight out of mind) and play “who is the greatest” by looking at the temporal .
Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.Then there arose a reasoning among them, "which of them should be greatest". Luk 9:44
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Why look to the literal as that seen with our eyes or hear with the ear of natural man and not what the Spirit is saying to the churches? It why he faulted the Nicolaitanes. they too insisted on walking by sight after that literally seen.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
God did do not leave us a orphans with no instructions as to how we can seek after the approval of God. He has given us the proper prescriptions. And they do not include ignore the eternal spiritual understanding found in a parables in favor of walking by sight after the things seen, the temporal.
It is not a salvation issue but I think more of a way on how can we walk by faith the unseen and not by sight as that seen.
It is there between the temporal things of men seen and the eternal of God the unseen that the father of lies can get his foot in the door to sell his murderess lies.
By providing us parables we can see the gospel working in the affairs of men right from the beginning. According to Christ the Holy Spirit without a parable the word of God speaks not.
We begin looking for the gospel hid in parables the gospel thread is woven throughout the scriptures .
When you said thinking do not understand the book of Revelation. Did you mean the book that is signified using signs seen, the temporal to reveal the spiritual things not seen, and the eternal? It would seem like the correct hermeneutics when looking at parables.
Remember it cannot be over emphasized, again without parables Christ the Holy Spirit of God spoke not, purposely hiding the spiritual faith principle from natural man who naturally seek after that literally seen, to avoid the searching out the spiritual understanding through what I would call the three avenues of the serpent who has no form so that he can make his spiritual presence known..
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
According to my understanding I would think we can compare faith to faith, or the unseen spiritual to the unseen eternal as to its understanding... hid from natural man .
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God... 1Co 2:9
Christ purposely hid the meaning from parables to teach the apostles how to rightly divide the word of God, mixing faith (Christ’s) the unseen in what they did hear or see. Three times they insisted on walking by sight after that the things seen the literal . Christ rebuked them and informed them you know not what manner of spirit they were of.
Whenever they turned things upside down like that their eyes would go off of Christ and play the game “who is the greatest”. Again walking by sight looking to the literal .
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
There are literally lying spirits that have no form or substance as rudiments of this world. Lying spirits have no way to procreate. I am not stamping out the literal but defining that not seen, the eternal, by the things seen the temporal.
There is nothing in the scripture above that infers that the angel is not a literal angel that will descend to seize the dragon.
An angel is a messenger of God as a spirit not seen.
It’s what we wrestle against the literal unseen . When Satan the lead messenger a murderer from the beginning worked by literally appearing in a form of another creature as one that was formed after the rudiments of this world a (serpent) and puts his thoughts on its lips (you shall not surely die) the murder took place.
God did not want them to learn by experience (instant gratitude) what it mean to walk by faith the unseen. They died because they looked to the literal as that seen.
The key is the gospel that the gates of hell the bottom less pit or unending judgment will not prevail against as that not seen .It loosen the believer binding the father of lies.
Yes it represents the father of lies no literal chain could hold Him
Other than without parables Christ spoke not?
A thousand years are as a day .The word as denotes a parable is in view and the spiritual understand hid from natural man must be sought out if we are going to hear what the Spirit says to the churches .. The word thousand as it is used over and over represents a unknown
The term thousand is employed many, many times in Scripture, in varying figurative senses, to describe large numbers or vast periods of time. The expressions are also commonly used to symbolically describe great pictures of immeasurable vastness.
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?
We are to compare the spiritual understanding to the spiritual.God is not a man as us.
Distorting I believe would be to look to the literal as that seen the temporal and not that hid the spiritual understanding. In that way it would seem you are rebuking me for the right manner of Spirit "walking by faith" (2 Corinthians 4:18). The apostles were following your line of reasoning. Make Christ disappear (out of sight out of mind) and play “who is the greatest” by looking at the temporal .
Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.Then there arose a reasoning among them, "which of them should be greatest". Luk 9:44
Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Why look to the literal as that seen with our eyes or hear with the ear of natural man and not what the Spirit is saying to the churches? It why he faulted the Nicolaitanes. they too insisted on walking by sight after that literally seen.
God: I told you SIX TIMES that it would be a thousand years! What part of a thousand years is so unclear to you that you can't understand it means: a really, really, really long time but not exactly a thousand years???!
The word thousand is used throughout scriptures to indicate a vast unknow time or waht ever is in veiw.
The first time the actual term ‘‘a thousand’’ is used in a figurative sense in Scripture is found in Deuteronomy 1:10-11where Moses is seen speaking to the children of Israel, saying, ““The Lord your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude. (The Lord God of your fathers make you A THOUSAND times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!).””
Moses, here, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit employs the term ‘‘a thousand’’ to reveal the immense prosperity he desires for the people of God. This expression again does not in any way denote an exact ‘‘thousand’’ but rather explains in a figurative sense the deep sense of spiritual increase he wishes to see bestowed on his kindred from the providential hand of the God of his fathers. This passage is not intending to limit God's blessing to an expansion of only one thousand times. Rather it is a figurative way of saying that God is the source of ALL increase and ALL blessing.
The first time the actual term ‘‘a thousand’’ is used in a figurative sense in Scripture is found in Deuteronomy 1:10-11where Moses is seen speaking to the children of Israel, saying, ....The Lord your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude. (The Lord God of your fathers make you A THOUSAND times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!).””
Moses, here, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit employs the term ‘‘a thousand’’ to reveal the immense prosperity he desires for the people of God. This expression again does not in any way denote an exact ‘‘thousand’’ but rather explains in a figurative sense the deep sense of spiritual increase he wishes to see bestowed on his kindred from the providential hand of the God of his fathers. This passage is not intending to limit God's blessing to an expansion of only one thousand times. Rather it is a figurative way of saying that God is the source of ALL increase and ALL blessing.
Many more examples.How many does a person need ?
So what was the point of Him coming then? Did He fail? Is He not sitting on His throne now? I have to say that what you are putting forth here isn't very hopeful, nor does it give Jesus the absolute authority and victory that is His alone. Is the world still bad? Yes of course it is still full of fallen men, but is the leaven working it's way through the dough? Is that mustard seed still growing? I say it is, I say Jesus did exactly what He said He came to do, I believe He is seated, as is the work is done seated, at the right hand of the Father on high, and His kingdom will know NO end until all enemies are in their place under Jesus feet.
This message sets my soul on fire to get out there and do what we're called to do and built His kingdom, this message has so much more power than "the world is going to hell in a hand basket until Jesus comes to snatch us out of it and gives it to the wicked to destroy until one day". I don't think that's the story He told us, and honestly feel it gives us more of an "well there's nothing I can do", attitude instead of a "go make disciples of ALL nations" kind of fire that has flipped this world onto it's head for 2,000 years.
The one point you made that I agree with, and one that's been bothering me a lot as of late, is the "Christians are so divided and cant even agree on simple doctrines". This is very true especially in the US, but not as true in China and around the world where His power is mighty and very visible. I do agree that we need to come together more, and stop dividing on certain things, but I do not think we are in some kind of "holding pattern" until Jesus comes to take us away at all. I just think we need to submit to Jesus in truth and follow Him and His commands as the Holy Spirit leads us to. We grow and I don't believe the exact same things I did last year and feel He has drawn me closer and revealed more as I walk with Him. I am going to share these things, but I am not going to fight with or condemn anyone for believing the very same things I myself have believed. I will just share my thoughts and trust the Lord to work with them in His way, not mine.
Anyway I guess this was just me sharing those thoughts, and I do so in love and ONLY by the power of His Spirit inside me, and all in Jesus name. I also pray each and every one of you has a great day, and that we all grow closer to our almighty Savior Jesus.
This message sets my soul on fire to get out there and do what we're called to do and built His kingdom, this message has so much more power than "the world is going to hell in a hand basket until Jesus comes to snatch us out of it and gives it to the wicked to destroy until one day". I don't think that's the story He told us, and honestly feel it gives us more of an "well there's nothing I can do", attitude instead of a "go make disciples of ALL nations" kind of fire that has flipped this world onto it's head for 2,000 years.
The one point you made that I agree with, and one that's been bothering me a lot as of late, is the "Christians are so divided and cant even agree on simple doctrines". This is very true especially in the US, but not as true in China and around the world where His power is mighty and very visible. I do agree that we need to come together more, and stop dividing on certain things, but I do not think we are in some kind of "holding pattern" until Jesus comes to take us away at all. I just think we need to submit to Jesus in truth and follow Him and His commands as the Holy Spirit leads us to. We grow and I don't believe the exact same things I did last year and feel He has drawn me closer and revealed more as I walk with Him. I am going to share these things, but I am not going to fight with or condemn anyone for believing the very same things I myself have believed. I will just share my thoughts and trust the Lord to work with them in His way, not mine.
Anyway I guess this was just me sharing those thoughts, and I do so in love and ONLY by the power of His Spirit inside me, and all in Jesus name. I also pray each and every one of you has a great day, and that we all grow closer to our almighty Savior Jesus.
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