Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

[wanderer6059]

Here we go again wanderer, another wof SECULAR saying you learned which btw is not Biblical. In all my years studying wof I've heard that one, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" and a variation of yours, "eat the meat and spit out the bones."

Years ago I read an article on these idioms that was very enlighting and I just now found it. You can start out wanderer by reading Acts 17:11. We are to search the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. You see wanderer it was God who said that His Word is perfect and from it we would get sound doctrine. (2 Timothy 3:14).

So, let's look at "I eat the meant and spit out the bones." It is used countless times to defend using the teachings of favorite teachers/preachers who upon evaluation, are far from the Word of God. What they do like kenyon, hagin, copeland and many others is present "truth teasers" in amongst the bones, so the undiscerning (especially like you) will ead and find that "meat" to validate their teachings. Supporter like you lay claim to the idea that "no one is perfect" and if they can glean one thing from an otherwise unsound teaching or writing, they'll keep that meat and spit out the offending bones. They don't believe it to be unsound to be taught both doctrinal truth and error and uphold the person who teaches in this manner. And as a side note, I do recall you saying in one of your post, "nobody's perfect." In other words wanderer, you have fallen hook, line and sinker to false teaching by false and heretical teachers. See, I just gave you another "idiom."

Hopefully you get the point becasue I don't see the need to explain to you about the idiom "throw the baby out with the bathwater." Besides, what is a baby doing in filthy water in the first place? And one last thing? If you have a mind to bring up 2 Timothy 1:13 and apply it to one of these secular idioms I have a great answser for that as well and how it does not apply.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

yeah its a secular thing......

Prove all things - Subject everything submitted to you to be believed to the proper test. The word here used (δοκιμάζετε dokimazete), is one that is properly applicable to metals, referring to the art of the assayer, by which the true nature and value of the metal is tested; see notes, 1 Corinthians 3:13. This trial was usually made by fire. The meaning here is, that they were carefully to examine everything proposed for their belief. They were not to receive it on trust; to take it on assertion; to believe it because it was urged with vehemence, zeal, or plausibility. In the various opinions and doctrines which were submitted to them for adoption, they were to apply the appropriate tests from reason and the word of God, and what they found to be true they were to embrace; what was false they were to reject. Christianity does not require people to disregard their reason, or to be credulous. It does not expect them to believe anything because others say it is so. It does not make it a duty to receive as undoubted truth all that synods and councils have decreed; or all that is advanced by the ministers of religion. It is, more than any other form of religion, the friend of free inquiry, and would lead people everywhere to understand the reason of the opinions which they entertain; compare Acts 17:11-12; 1 Peter 3:15.

…20Do not treat prophecies with contempt, 21but test all things. Hold fast to what is good. 22Abstain from every form of evil.…

Text Analysis
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]panta[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πάντα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]all things[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-ANP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1161 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]de[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]δὲ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]however[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1381 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]dokimazete[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]δοκιμάζετε,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]test.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PMA-2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]to[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]to the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2570 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kalon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]καλὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]good[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]katechete[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κατέχετε·[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]hold fast.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PMA-2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

dokimazo: I put to the test, prove, examine​

​

​

Original Word: δοκιμάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dokimazo
Phonetic Spelling: (dok-im-ad'-zo)
Short Definition: I put to the test, prove, examine
Definition: I put to the test, prove, examine; I distinguish by testing, approve after testing; I am fit.HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1381 dokimázō (from 1384 /dókimos, "approved") – properly, to try (test) to show something is acceptable (real, approved); put to the test to reveal what is good (genuine). See 1384 (dokimos).
1381 /dokimázō ("to approve by testing") is done to demonstrate what is good, i.e. passes the necessary test. 1381 (dokimázō) does not focus on disproving something (i.e. to show it is bad).


Strong's Concordance

katechó: to hold fast, hold back​

​

​

Original Word: κατέχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katechó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ekh'-o)
Short Definition: I hold fast, bind, restrain
Definition: (a) I hold fast, bind, arrest, (b) I take possession of, lay hold of, (c) I hold back, detain, restrain, (d) I hold a ship, keep its head.


Strong's Concordance

kalos: beautiful, good​

​

​

Original Word: καλός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: kalos
Phonetic Spelling: (kal-os')
Short Definition: beautiful, good, worthy
Definition: beautiful, as an outward sign of the inward good, noble, honorable character; good, worthy, honorable, noble, and seen to be so.

 

[wanderer6059]

Are you serious wanderer? What do you mean when you say, "​why can't i heal him... i have no authority over him, he is not my servant like the centurion in this case." Remeber, I said to you in another post "why don't you clear out people in the hospital in your area?" What does not being their servant have to do with anything? Your suppose to be a servant just like Jesus Christ took on the form of a servant at Philippians 2:5-9. He's our example and He also said we would do greater works than Him. So again, what is stopping you from healing people with your great faith?

Finally, I don't need you to lecture me on belief and faith as you said here: "and what i am going to tell you is you have no comprehension of the words FAITH and BELIEF, you lack understanding and need to educate yourself." I've forgotten more about wof than you will ever know. Your 28 years old and the bunion on my big toe is older than you. And lastly, I noticed another wof buzz word you used in this post of yours? It's the word, "legal." This is a favorite word kenneth copeland loves to use in his heretical sermons when it comes to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. I'll try and find it for you. You better run and not walk to the nearest exit from wof wanderer.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

3And[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]this[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]we will do,if[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]God[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]permits.

And this will we do, if God permit.[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]—[/FONT]There may be some with whom it will be impossible for him thus to press on to maturity of teaching and of Christian experience.[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] There is a case excepted by God Himself from all efforts of the Christian teacher; in this case, though nothing can avail except the laying of a new foundation of repentance, God has appointed no agencies by which such foundation can be laid.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]i'm done talking to you about the face that i can't heal a hospital, i have given you ample evidence. you reject every bit of scripture i put up in context for your assumptions. you jump to posting what others take out of context and have no mind to bring up a defense of your own on what you believe. and how can legal be a buzz word just because KC uses it. God is a Just Judge. and He will never move out side of what is legal, or what He has said and written.

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]but right here is something interesting to me, sounds like you knew a bit about WoF at least, maybee hurt by some people in WoF? idk what ever it may bee the fact is you judge WoF off of its people, not the defined beliefs i have put up. [/FONT]

 

[oldethennew]

yeah but you being sick is not suffering for the sake of the Gospel. and you don't have to have a life of suffering just because the world does, God heals. yes one day we will die, and yes it may be for the sake of the Gospel suffering for His sake. but you don't have to die in a bed of sickness that you have been on most of your life.

================================================================
wanderer,

you have now 'over-stepped' your wandering and that is exactly what you are doing, wandering,
and your purpose -
for saying or even believing such an un-kind, judgmental thing against a child and servant of Her Saviour,
will bring you into an arena that you have asked for yourself, and it won't be something that you will
like or appreciate...

 

[LaurenTM]

I did read 1 Timothy 5:22 and it is about ordination not about healing. You have to read the entire passage, like most who claim WoF people don't do.

Lets say it has something to do with healing as well. I'm not a Greek scholar also so maybe it can mean both. This is where discernment would come into play. I wouldn't so hastily say you would never lay hands on someone you didn't know.

listen...

you had the wrong book to begin with and I didn't have the time to correct you

I thought you might try and find the right book, but I guess spoon feeding is habit forming

so here, I will spoon feed you...open wide now...here comes the truth train

13Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise.14Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

JAMES 5

you don't need a Greek scholar...you just need to get better acquainted with the Bible you already have

 

[bluto]

3Andthiswe will do,ifGodpermits.

And this will we do, if God permit.—There may be some with whom it will be impossible for him thus to press on to maturity of teaching and of Christian experience. There is a case excepted by God Himself from all efforts of the Christian teacher; in this case, though nothing can avail except the laying of a new foundation of repentance, God has appointed no agencies by which such foundation can be laid.

i'm done talking to you about the face that i can't heal a hospital, i have given you ample evidence. you reject every bit of scripture i put up in context for your assumptions. you jump to posting what others take out of context and have no mind to bring up a defense of your own on what you believe. and how can legal be a buzz word just because KC uses it. God is a Just Judge. and He will never move out side of what is legal, or what He has said and written.

but right here is something interesting to me, sounds like you knew a bit about WoF at least, maybee hurt by some people in WoF? idk what ever it may bee the fact is you judge WoF off of its people, not the defined beliefs i have put up.

No wanderer, I was never a follower of wof in the first place which means I was never hurt by them. When I first became a Christian over 50 years ago the very next day I was approached by Mormon Missionaries. Of course I was clueless about them but when they talked to me within my spirit I immediately knew something was wrong with what they were saying, it didn't sit right with me.

Anyway, the Lord eventually led me into the field of "apologetics" and I learned all about the Mormons, Jw's and every other cult and had dealings with people in the occult. The Lord gave me the gift of discernment and after studying the Bible (which is the truth) I can spot the counterfeit including the abberant theology of wof. I had many friends that were followers of hagin, copeland and I can give you a list of the dozens and dozens of others that teach this stuff.

And you got me wrong? I "DONT'T" judge the people per-say, I judge what they teach and then after a while, it's prertty easy to come to the conclusion that some of them are truly lost based on their doctrinal fruit according to Matthew 7:15-23, I suggest you read it for yourself. And as a side note my main "mentor" was the late Dr.Walter Martin. You would be interested to know that Dr. Martin spoke out heavily against wof and when he died TBN and others claimed that they were responsible for his death because he dared to speak out agains wof. In fact, I have experienced wof'ers praying and rebuking me for having Satan in my heart. In other words, they were trying to "deliever" me from his clutches. And as you can see, I'm still here!

Finally, I'm going to start another thread on what it means to "Prove all things" by giving you examples of statements from wof teachers and preachers.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[LanceA]

listen...

you had the wrong book to begin with and I didn't have the time to correct you

I thought you might try and find the right book, but I guess spoon feeding is habit forming

so here, I will spoon feed you...open wide now...here comes the truth train

13Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise.14Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

JAMES 5

you don't need a Greek scholar...you just need to get better acquainted with the Bible you already have

I think we were both talking about something else. Once again you are being nasty and I am through talking to you. I have no want in arguing or bringing out any animosity between anyone on here. I never claimed to know Greek or Hebrew. Maybe I was wrong for coming back to this forum. I see the same dictators are still on here and if someone disagrees with them it is mockery and leave if you don't like it.

You can reply all you want to this post but you will be doing it for naught because I won't be posting on this topic. It brings out the love out of all of us. That was a joke by the way

 

[LaurenTM]

I think we were both talking about something else. Once again you are being nasty and I am through talking to you. I have no want in arguing or bringing out any animosity between anyone on here. I never claimed to know Greek or Hebrew. Maybe I was wrong for coming back to this forum. I see the same dictators are still on here and if someone disagrees with them it is mockery and leave if you don't like it.

You can reply all you want to this post but you will be doing it for naught because I won't be posting on this topic. It brings out the love out of all of us. That was a joke by the way

oh grow up

I read the convo you and Ariel had...I had no time to point you in the right direction and the 2 of you went to town trying to figure it out

I'm not nasty...I am well versed in the harm WOF does...people actually dying...I was in FL when Bentley was going crazy down there before the news broke about his affair...adultery...

did you hear the one about the man suffering from cancer in the abdomen and Bentley PUNCHED him in the stomach and told him he was healed...he reeled in pain and died not long after...I mean he was dying anyway, but what the hey, right?

what is nasty is the demonic appropriation of GOD'S truth by cowboy Christians and the sad sad fact of all the Christians with itching ears who just cannot get enough

what is nasty, is your inability to simply say you had it wrong and stop wasting peoples time by pretending you are adult enough to deal with something that can be life or death

you are typical of someone, who when they are wrong and cannot admit it, they whine and say someone hurt them

I'm sure you will read this...after you blow your nose

unbelievable!

 

[LaurenTM]

oh look Lance..you are still here

what did I say?

I'll help you out...I won't answer YOU! LOL!

 

[CharlieGrown]

I think we were both talking about something else. Once again you are being nasty and I am through talking to you. I have no want in arguing or bringing out any animosity between anyone on here. I never claimed to know Greek or Hebrew. Maybe I was wrong for coming back to this forum. I see the same dictators are still on here and if someone disagrees with them it is mockery and leave if you don't like it.

You can reply all you want to this post but you will be doing it for naught because I won't be posting on this topic. It brings out the love out of all of us. That was a joke by the way

Lance, with respect this is where people trip. The topic is WoF and how it is a meat threshing doctrine leaving many people ship wrecked in the faith. Wanderer is young, just like a lot of us who walked into the false doctrine of WoF with the best intentions to serve and grow in the Lord. The problem is, we also saw it's destructiveness on innocence. This thread and the one that was closed is/was littered with the most powerful type of evidence, first hand, up close and personal. You in my opinion are wavering from the topic. Lauren is not on a tyrannical witch hunt, she may be trying to spare some unwitting infants in faith from tremendous setback.

 

[nowyouseem033]

WoF teachings and doctrines are heresy!!! Why? Because At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God's sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god.

 

[Whassup]

The topic is WoF and how it is a meat threshing doctrine leaving many people ship wrecked in the faith.

Ship wrecked???

You mean they took some preachers word for something rather than learning God's promises for themselves and they gave up when satan attacked them to choke the Word that Jesus spoke of in Mark 4:13-20 ?

Each person is ultimately responsible for their own walk with the Lord which is based on His Word.

 

[nowyouseem033]

Ship wrecked???

You mean they took some preachers word for something rather than learning God's promises for themselves and they gave up when satan attacked them to choke the Word that Jesus spoke of in Mark 4:13-20 ?

Each person is ultimately responsible for their own walk with the Lord which is based on His Word.

Shipwrecked in the sense that if the so called 'promises' arent being displayed after these people earnestly seeked them then they are left in a state of confusion, because God promised but never delivered. So then they blame themselves for not having enough faith and start questioning. In fact thats how most people leave the heretical WOF movement.

 

[Whassup]

Many aspects of the so-called "WOF Movemant" are in fact very much biblical... the problem is people are following preachers instead of God's Word which promises health, our needs being met, protection, peace of mind, etc...

Another problem is some people are more interested in what God can do for them rather than first and foremost simply being a child of the most High God allowing Him to share Himself whith us which is why we were created (God's will is "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" - 2 Corinthians 6:16)

Many who attack the so-called "WOF Movemant" are attacking preachers who have gotten in to extremes and in doing so they also end up attacking God's Word... and satan smiles.

 

[Whassup]

Many aspects of the so-called "WOF Movemant" are in fact very much biblical... the problem is people are following preachers instead of God's Word which promises health, our needs being met, protection, peace of mind, etc... which is what salvation is, DELIVERANCE from all that satan brought to mankind including of course deliverance from spending eternity with satan in hell which is what we all deserve because of our sin.

Can this be accomplished 100% while here on Club Earth? Of course not... perfect deliverance comes once we leave here and go to be with the Lord... but, we don't have to live under the power of darkness in this life:

2 Peter 1:2-4
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
According as his divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Not sure 'bout anybody else, but I'm not living under the dictates of the devil as a matter of principle... the Lord takes pleasure in His servant's well-being (Psalm 35:27). Don't like well being??? Not a problem, just ignore God's promises and well being won't be a problem.

Another problem is some people are more interested in what God can do for them rather than first and foremost simply being a child of the most High God allowing Him to share Himself whith us which is why we were created (God's will is "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" - 2 Corinthians 6:16)

Many who attack the so-called "WOF Movemant" are attacking preachers who have gotten in to extremes and in doing so they also end up attacking God's Word... and satan smiles.

 

[Stephen63]

When I hear the phrase "eat the meat & spit out the bones" I get a picture of two things:

• People sitting at a table eating bluegill trying to get full without choking.
  
• Children choking on fish bones.

That's what happens with WOF..... most starve to death, while others are choking on reality.

 

[gb9]

When I hear the phrase "eat the meat & spit out the bones" I get a picture of two things:

• People sitting at a table eating bluegill trying to get full without choking.
  
• Children choking on fish bones.

That's what happens with WOF..... most starve to death, while others are choking on reality.

you and I do not agree with much but we are in agreement on this. WOF plays let's make a deal with the Creator of Heaven and earth. no thank you.

 

[LaurenTM]

When I hear the phrase "eat the meat & spit out the bones" I get a picture of two things:

• People sitting at a table eating bluegill trying to get full without choking.
  
• Children choking on fish bones.

That's what happens with WOF..... most starve to death, while others are choking on reality.

sounds all too familiar

a number of years ago, at a home Bible study (not mine), we were supposed to be going through some book...there were a number of bad teachings in it

I spoke with the leader of the group (actually someone I knew growing up...so we were not strangers) and I asked him why use a book with those things in it

you know what he said? ( I know you don't...but here it comes ) he said "well it's like eating fish...you spit out the bones"

I was aghast...I said 'what happens if you get a bone stuck in your throat'?

I don't even remember his answer...but he hadn't thought of that

it was not even about WOF...........but same principal applies it seems

you have to rescue people who choke on the parts you cannot eat..children choking on fish bones

what a great tie in

 

[LaurenTM]

Many who attack the so-called "WOF Movemant" are attacking preachers who have gotten in to extremes and in doing so they also end up attacking God's Word... and satan smiles.

this rhetoric of using words like 'attacking' or calling people 'liars' is commonly used in these forums to attempt to shut people down and bully them...they start addressing the personal remarks instead of staying on topic

you are not alone in using this 'device' it is common, ignorant and childish IMO

no one is attacking...we are refuting which is what we are supposed to do

the NT is chock full of that...most letters were written for instruction and Galatians and the Corinthian letters addressed grave error and sin

WOF is a heresy at best and doctrines of demons at worst

it's not a move of the Holy Spirit...now now and not ever!

 

[Angela53510]

Many aspects of the so-called "WOF Movemant" are in fact very much biblical... the problem is people are following preachers instead of God's Word which promises health, our needs being met, protection, peace of mind, etc...

Another problem is some people are more interested in what God can do for them rather than first and foremost simply being a child of the most High God allowing Him to share Himself whith us which is why we were created (God's will is "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" - 2 Corinthians 6:16)

Many who attack the so-called "WOF Movemant" are attacking preachers who have gotten in to extremes and in doing so they also end up attacking God's Word... and satan smiles.

After 25 pages, I am still waiting for this kind of frivolous chatter to stop, and for one of you WoF prior to refute the OP using the Bible, that healing is in the atonement. Please see the OP for what was said about Isa. 53.

 

[HisHolly]

So if it's not in the atonement it is in the instructions He gave to His disciples to do BC the kingdom of heaven was at hand, near(whichever is preferred)... Do you not think since He was their teacher teaching them to catch men that they would have continued in the healing part of it? You see throughout scripture, folks being healed and raised... Just a question.. nothing personal

Do you think that now it has no place even tho we are still in the work of fishing?